After reading an Osprey book about the Waffen-SS, I read a section talking about this unit, and Wikipedia told me more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/36th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS
Question: how were their uniforms like? I have Peddinghaus decals which have several armbands with the commander's name.
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The Wehrmacht's Most Monstrous Unit
long_tom
Joined: March 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 03:47 AM UTC
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 05:15 AM UTC
Why would ANYONE want to model a figure from that unit?? 
Makes the "Dirty Dozen" look like a bunch of Sunday School teachers!
Makes the "Dirty Dozen" look like a bunch of Sunday School teachers!
iowabrit
Joined: November 06, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 05:26 AM UTC
Should be popular with the neo-nazis.
obg153
Joined: April 07, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 05:37 AM UTC
While I agree, let's not forget that over the years there have been plenty of model exhibits (from busts to dios) of Hitler, as well as a few members of his inner circle. Not something I'd be interested in, but to each his own.
long_tom
Joined: March 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 09:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Should be popular with the neo-nazis.
Rather the opposite. Everybody else in the Wehrmacht, including the rest of the SS, absolutely despised them. This was a unit, after all, originally consisting of people only guilty of criminal poaching, but as time went on, picking up people who were considered scum of the Earth even by Nazis.
Hederstierna
#247
Joined: January 03, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 02:15 PM UTC
Not that I have any positive feelings towards National Socialism at all, but I can't der the problem in building such a figure.
Most modellers have absolutely no issues of building other Waffen SS units, which, together with numerous Wehrmacht units, were very active in comitting war crimes.
And what about all the Taliban figures out there?
Jacob
Most modellers have absolutely no issues of building other Waffen SS units, which, together with numerous Wehrmacht units, were very active in comitting war crimes.
And what about all the Taliban figures out there?
Jacob
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 03:02 PM UTC
Read the article and in March of 1945 they had a Panzer detachment as well as tank destroyers.
There were also attached heer troops in support roles. Reminds me of the Nazi exploitation movies of the late 1960s, early 1970s. Wonder if there were any helferins attached.
If we're going to get sick might as well go all the way and be truly perverted. And make a movie and rake in the money.
It's a sick world.
Remember rule #34. If it exists there is porn of it
There were also attached heer troops in support roles. Reminds me of the Nazi exploitation movies of the late 1960s, early 1970s. Wonder if there were any helferins attached.
If we're going to get sick might as well go all the way and be truly perverted. And make a movie and rake in the money.
It's a sick world.
Remember rule #34. If it exists there is porn of it
long_tom
Joined: March 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 04:34 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Read the article and in March of 1945 they had a Panzer detachment as well as tank destroyers.
There were also attached heer troops in support roles. Reminds me of the Nazi exploitation movies of the late 1960s, early 1970s. Wonder if there were any helferins attached.
If we're going to get sick might as well go all the way and be truly perverted. And make a movie and rake in the money.
It's a sick world.
Remember rule #34. If it exists there is porn of it
How about Hogan's Heroes? Meant to make fun of such entertainment BTW.
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 05:40 PM UTC
As for doing figures of historical human monsters, how about all those Viking figures? Ever read the Anglo-saxon Chronicle? The Nazis never were so rapacious for so long as to have a prayer just for protection against them. A furore normanorum libere nos Domini. Dear God spare us the fury of the Northmen.
Many companies make figures of all kinds of distasteful and evil periods of history (and fantasy) and not a Nazi in sight. Rome, Bacchanal, Arabian nights and pirates, huns, Mongols. Expressed as a percentage of total human population, the Mongols killed more than any conquorer in human history. The Nazis eradicated vilages and towns, the Mongols wiped out cities and civilizations. Oh wow, look at that cool figure of a Mongol commander! Probably riding past a mound of skulls and infants on spears.
Don't have to have neat field grey uniforms and sieg runes to be a human monster that are all over figure collections.
Many companies make figures of all kinds of distasteful and evil periods of history (and fantasy) and not a Nazi in sight. Rome, Bacchanal, Arabian nights and pirates, huns, Mongols. Expressed as a percentage of total human population, the Mongols killed more than any conquorer in human history. The Nazis eradicated vilages and towns, the Mongols wiped out cities and civilizations. Oh wow, look at that cool figure of a Mongol commander! Probably riding past a mound of skulls and infants on spears.
Don't have to have neat field grey uniforms and sieg runes to be a human monster that are all over figure collections.
maartenboersma
Joined: October 10, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 05:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Question: how were their uniforms like? I have Peddinghaus decals which have several armbands with the commander's name.
To answer your question;
just normal W-ss uniforms.
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 07:09 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Question: how were their uniforms like? I have Peddinghaus decals which have several armbands with the commander's name.
To answer your question;
just normal W-ss uniforms.
At one point half of their number were Ukrainian so there may have been some variety based on that. Also the Heer support troops probably retained their insignia.
Hohenstaufen
Joined: December 13, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 09:43 PM UTC
As far as the uniforms are concerned, Dirlewanger units were theoretically issued with a collar patch of crossed rifles with a grenade underneath. This was common with some other "special service" battalions which no doubt led to some innocent (?) SS men getting shot on sight as "Dirlewanger" men. This collar patch is visible in a very well known "Time" photos showing German troops in Warsaw. It is unlikely a cuff title was ever issued or worn, these tend to be post war fantasy items (although it is beyond me why anyone would want to identify with this unit). To be fair to the Wehrmacht, as a Waffen SS unit, 36th SS Division (in name only, it never exceeded reinforced regiment size) strictly doesn't belong to the Wehrmacht. It is debatable which is the worst German unit, Kaminski's 29th SS Division which was made up of Ukranians certainly matched Dirlewanger's excesses in Warsaw, sufficient for the SS leadership to put him on trial and execute him! However this may have been for looting, as murder and rape didn't seem to faze the SS leadership too much (one of the stories attached to Kaminski is that he raped and then murdered two German Helferinen). Likewise, if we compare brutality and atrocities matched with abysmal performance against regular troops, 13th SS "Handschar" Division committed numerous atrocities in Yugoslavia and mutinied in France.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 09:45 PM UTC
I just read a book called "The Compassionate Soldier" about those who served in the military who put others needs before their own. In the book there is a passage about three German youth who were caught defying the Nazis by printing and distributing anti-Nazi leaflets. All three were caught, one was hanged but the other two were given life prison terms which were later commuted to being placed in one of these "penal battalions". These units were used as cannon fodder for the most part. They had very low survival rates. Many of these units incorporated political prisoners along with murderers, rapists, deserters, and thieves. Personally, I have a slight aversion to modeling German WWII stuff, except to show technological breakthroughs. The Nazi's used the German people and abused the rest of Europe to fulfill an evil mandate. I build more models of Allied equipment and troops who ended the torment of Nazism. But to be honest, I once used to be fascinated with the camouflage and design of German WWII equipment, but not so much after learning what they did during the war. I do build the occasional German WWII model, but the number of WWII German items in my stash is very low. I can admire the artwork of others who build these German WWII models, and have no problem with modelers building them, but for me, I don't build them unless there is a technological breakthrough to show. But that's just me.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 10:46 PM UTC
That reminds me of the father of the graduate student aide in my World War II class was a Pole with a background in languages who was drafted into the SS as an interpreter. He was issued the uniform of an SS lieutenant complete with sidearm. But he was never issued a magazine or ammunition. He was told that he could be shot and dumped if he said anything out of line.
My neighbors father was an officer who ended up in a penal unit for disobeying orders. His unit was written off during a retreat "no survivors"
My neighbors father was an officer who ended up in a penal unit for disobeying orders. His unit was written off during a retreat "no survivors"
Hohenstaufen
Joined: December 13, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 11:10 PM UTC
"As for doing figures of historical human monsters, how about all those Viking figures? Ever read the Anglo-saxon Chronicle? The Nazis never were so rapacious for so long as to have a prayer just for protection against them. A furore normanorum libere nos Domini. Dear God spare us the fury of the Northmen.
Many companies make figures of all kinds of distasteful and evil periods of history (and fantasy) and not a Nazi in sight. Rome, Bacchanal, Arabian nights and pirates, huns, Mongols. Expressed as a percentage of total human population, the Mongols killed more than any conquorer in human history. The Nazis eradicated vilages and towns, the Mongols wiped out cities and civilizations. Oh wow, look at that cool figure of a Mongol commander! Probably riding past a mound of skulls and infants on spears."
While all this is true, what differentiates units such as Dirlewangers is that they were formed by a so called civilised Western European state, which was a signatory to the Geneva Convention rather than Medieval barbarians. That such units were formed and fought (if that is the right word)in the manner they did in the middle of the Twentieth Century, says a lot about the brutal nature of the Nazi regime and its lieutenants; Dirlewanger was under the personal protection of Obergruppenfuhrer Gottlob ("praise God" - ironic) Berger, the chief of the SS Central Office.
Many companies make figures of all kinds of distasteful and evil periods of history (and fantasy) and not a Nazi in sight. Rome, Bacchanal, Arabian nights and pirates, huns, Mongols. Expressed as a percentage of total human population, the Mongols killed more than any conquorer in human history. The Nazis eradicated vilages and towns, the Mongols wiped out cities and civilizations. Oh wow, look at that cool figure of a Mongol commander! Probably riding past a mound of skulls and infants on spears."
While all this is true, what differentiates units such as Dirlewangers is that they were formed by a so called civilised Western European state, which was a signatory to the Geneva Convention rather than Medieval barbarians. That such units were formed and fought (if that is the right word)in the manner they did in the middle of the Twentieth Century, says a lot about the brutal nature of the Nazi regime and its lieutenants; Dirlewanger was under the personal protection of Obergruppenfuhrer Gottlob ("praise God" - ironic) Berger, the chief of the SS Central Office.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 11:17 PM UTC
Along with that thought-- In F troop, 2/11 Cav, our 2nd Plt Sergeant was named Czenegi. He was Czech who was forced into the Wehrmacht as a teen after the annexation of Czechoslovakia. His entire family was lost during the war, and he fought on the Eastern Front. He hated the Nazis, but had no choice but to fight for them. He was in Germany and made it across the Elbe to surrender to Free-French troops at the end of the war, where he was sent to France to work rebuilding France as "penance" for being in the Wehrmacht. But he was offered the opportunity to "volunteer" for the French Foreign Legion. He couldn't go home to Communist Czechoslovakia because he'd fought for the Germans. So instead he spent ten years fighting in French Indochina and French Morocco, becoming a French citizen along the way. In 1962 he immigrated to the US, but couldn't find work, so he joined the US Army, and in 1968, went to Vietnam. He stayed in the US Army after Vietnam, becoming a US citizen. He was what I'd call a "true" professional soldier. He retired in 1980, but he's a perfect example of what happened to folks in Europe during the war-- everything was ripped away from him, and he had few choices left in his life. He was a tough guy, but at the same time a great survivor, and had little tolerance for "whining". His "fortune" or "misfortune" (you pick) is a direct result of what the Nazis did in Europe. One day I asked him about his life, and if he had any regrets. He told me the only regret he ever had was that the "Austrian Corporal" came to power, and if he could, he'd have tried to get his family out of Czechoslovakia before annexation.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
long_tom
Joined: March 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,362 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 01:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I just read a book called "The Compassionate Soldier" about those who served in the military who put others needs before their own. In the book there is a passage about three German youth who were caught defying the Nazis by printing and distributing anti-Nazi leaflets. All three were caught, one was hanged but the other two were given life prison terms which were later commuted to being placed in one of these "penal battalions". These units were used as cannon fodder for the most part. They had very low survival rates. Many of these units incorporated political prisoners along with murderers, rapists, deserters, and thieves. Personally, I have a slight aversion to modeling German WWII stuff, except to show technological breakthroughs. The Nazi's used the German people and abused the rest of Europe to fulfill an evil mandate. I build more models of Allied equipment and troops who ended the torment of Nazism. But to be honest, I once used to be fascinated with the camouflage and design of German WWII equipment, but not so much after learning what they did during the war. I do build the occasional German WWII model, but the number of WWII German items in my stash is very low. I can admire the artwork of others who build these German WWII models, and have no problem with modelers building them, but for me, I don't build them unless there is a technological breakthrough to show. But that's just me.
VR, Russ
The irony is that Uncle Joe managed to kill more Russians that the Wehrmacht managed to do. Even now there is controversy in Russia over Stalin the war hero and Stalin the murderer of his own citizens.
Vierville
Joined: April 05, 2014
KitMaker: 384 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 01:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Should be popular with the neo-nazis.
Certainly no more popular than Michael Wittman or Joachim Peiper surely?
I don't think many neo nazis are into model building...certainly no neo nazis amongst any of the modelling enthusiasts I know.
Iraqiwildman
Joined: November 24, 2008
KitMaker: 93 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 03:18 AM UTC
Just a point of fact - The Waffen SS was not part of the Wehrmacht. The Wehrmacht was the unified armed forces of Nazi Germany from 1935 to 1946. It consisted of the Heer (Army), the Kriegsmarine (Navy) and the Luftwaffe (Air Force). The Waffen SS was it's own branch fighting under SS control.
Vicious
Joined: September 04, 2015
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 03:52 AM UTC
Every front and side has had its own "Dirlewanger",also the allied, in Italy the "Goumiers", the French Moroccan troops,done a good amount of atrocities to ,mens,womans,kids and priest,just in 1 small town of 2500 people they rape,kill,etc.. 700 people,still today certain acts of violence in Italy are called some time with the nickname of "Moroccan thigs" in italian "Marocchinate", and everythings under the allies commanders eyes,but they just turn the head on the other side and say nothing.
long_tom
Joined: March 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,362 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 04:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Just a point of fact - The Waffen SS was not part of the Wehrmacht. The Wehrmacht was the unified armed forces of Nazi Germany from 1935 to 1946. It consisted of the Heer (Army), the Kriegsmarine (Navy) and the Luftwaffe (Air Force). The Waffen SS was it's own branch fighting under SS control.
The Osprey book on the SS I mentioned referred to the fact that Hitler never intended it to be a real military fighting force, but of course later in the war he had no choice but to use them as such.
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator
Joined: November 29, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 04:42 AM UTC
"Dirlewanger was under the personal protection of Obergruppenfuhrer Gottlob ("praise God" - ironic) Berger, the chief of the SS Central Office."
Unfortunately there isn't nearly enough irony in that name.
Countless atrocities have been committed in the perverted belief of serving a god ....
/ Robin
Unfortunately there isn't nearly enough irony in that name.
Countless atrocities have been committed in the perverted belief of serving a god ....
/ Robin
long_tom
Joined: March 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,362 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 04:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
"Dirlewanger was under the personal protection of Obergruppenfuhrer Gottlob ("praise God" - ironic) Berger, the chief of the SS Central Office."
Unfortunately there isn't nearly enough irony in that name.
Countless atrocities have been committed in the perverted belief of serving a god ....
/ Robin
Atheism is a great pretext for committing atrocities. Ask Pol Pot.
Halbcl2
Joined: September 10, 2006
KitMaker: 127 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 05:09 AM UTC
Just to be pedantic, my understanding is that the SS was officially/administratively NOT part of the "Wehrmacht".
RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorJoined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 05:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text"Dirlewanger was under the personal protection of Obergruppenfuhrer Gottlob ("praise God" - ironic) Berger, the chief of the SS Central Office."
Unfortunately there isn't nearly enough irony in that name.
Countless atrocities have been committed in the perverted belief of serving a god ....
/ Robin
Atheism is a great pretext for committing atrocities. Ask Pol Pot.
Almost any "-ism" is. As long as it contains a core belief of what is right and what is wrong there will always be an option of doing bad things to those who are wrong.
Pol Pot was mostly motivated by another -ism by the way
/ Robin
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