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What also has a impact on the price of Kits is the cost of crude oil another impact on the cost of kits is all thes bells and whistles the rivet counters want in the kits IE photo etch, indi links moveable suspension and now full interior

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Ummmm, about the cost of oil:
1 barrel Brent oil goes for around US $73, a barrel contains 42 US gallons.
If we assume that a gallon of oil goes into the production, trasnport and sale of an average kit (the styrene itself, energy used to produce, transport and process the styrene, energy to transport the kit from factory, energy used to produce the instruction booklet and all the non-styrene content of the kit) we would be looking at less than 2 (two) US $.
Maybe my calculation was overly optimistic so let's assume that 2 gallons are required, this would still only account for two dollars.
If the cost of Brent oil doubled it would only affect the price for a kit by 4 dollars at the most.

See also my previous post about the relative cost of kits compared with Big Macs.
Today we can buy, for the same relative money, kits that contain three or four times the number of parts/details as 40 years ago.
The number of dollars listed on the price tag needs to be adjusted for inflation before comparing "now" with "then".

"Wages in the United States increased to 23.31 USD/Hour in April from 23.24 USD/Hour in March of 2019. Wages in the United States averaged 11.22 USD/Hour from 1964 until 2019, reaching an all time high of 23.31 USD/Hour in April of 2019 and a record low of 2.50 USD/Hour in February of 1964."

The buying power of US $ 22 back in April 1974 is
the same as US $117.13 in April 2019.
Now try to remember your first ever kit, what it was and when you bought it, enter the numbers in the calculator here:
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
and check the results. Which kit could You buy for the inflation corrected money today?
A better kit or not?

The Tamiya Pz IV kit (nr 35054) I bought back in 1987 for 150 SEK would be 343 SEK today. Today I can get the Border Models Pz IV for 450 to 480 SEK. For something like 10 bucks extra I get a kit which is three to four times better (my opinion). With indylink tracks included so I don't have to spend 10 bucks and upwards on aftermarket tracks ....
I should have saved the money back then and bought the new kit today, the Border Models kit is a LOT better value for money compared to Tamiyas old Pz IV (35054).

The industry hasn't gone crazy.
The modellers (i.e. we) haven't gone crazy either. We are forking out more or less the same money now as back then but the kits we get are superior. If we did the math based on number of minutes of building joy (hobby minutes / USD) I think it would be easy to prove that we are getting a lot more for our disposable hobby funds now compared to then.

/ Robin

P.S. Still have a few of those old Tamiya kits in the stash.
Someday they will get built .....

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I'm guessing your wage numbers come from a web site, but I can assure you few average people where I am are making $23.00 except on an average where the billionaires are included.

Food for thought. We had a contractor installing a system that just returned from mainland China. While on a smoke break he saw a line of people waiting at the gate to get inside. When he asked what the line was for he was told there were a few jobs postings for the plant. He guessed there was 5 or 6 thousand people in line for those few jobs. Any worker is easily replaced, and they know it!

Where I work we have plenty of BDM's (brain dead morons) who linger on because of worker protection laws, and Arizona is a right to work state.

I'm guessing your wage numbers come from a web site, but I can assure you few average people where I am are making $23.00 except on an average where the billionaires are included.

Food for thought. We had a contractor installing a system that just returned from mainland China. While on a smoke break he saw a line of people waiting at the gate to get inside. When he asked what the line was for he was told there were a few jobs postings for the plant. He guessed there was 5 or 6 thousand people in line for those few jobs. Any worker is easily replaced, and they know it!

Where I work we have plenty of BDM's (brain dead morons) who linger on because of worker protection laws, and Arizona is a right to work state.

Look around and shop carefully and you can still find that Tamiya Pzkpfw IV for $22. I got my Border one for $35 including postage.

Stop complaining about MSRP and educate yourself on how to shop around.

There are as many ways to the modeling godhead as modelers.

One of the things driving high prices is modelers who CAN'T WAIT to get the latest kit, so they will pay premium prices for it. In most cases, if you wait a few months, things settle down and prices settle with it.

Another is the irrational fear I see here all the time about buying from Hong Kong, much less China, or the disdain for eBay. About once every few months I see a thread "is it OK to buy from overseas?" Yes, in a word.

Then there are the modelers like above who don't have to have the latest kit but WANT THE KIT THEY WANT RIGHT NOW. I love Sprue Bros., order from them often, and esteem the folks who work there, but do you really need "real time" ordering information and shipping with 48 hours of placing your order? I suspect in many cases the answer really is "negatory."

Finally there are the shows and swap meets where my modeler friends often pick up INSANE bargains. Plus the "for sale" section of this and other forums.

Prices will go up because of the inevitable march of economics. They're going to be impacted by the insane trade war we're now in where neither side is prepared to back down. So if you can't afford the latest kits, find some unloved ones and try those.

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Look around and shop carefully and you can still find that Tamiya Pzkpfw IV for $22. I got my Border one for $35 including postage.

Stop complaining about MSRP and educate yourself on how to shop around.

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But who wants to buy that old Tamiya kit for 22 bucks?
Collectors?

If I hadn't gotten rid of the figures (gave them away) I
would consider selling mine on ebay in the hope of finding
a sucker who wants to buy it.


/ Robin

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Howdy Y'all
Very interesting and thought provoking thread. I'd have to say I don't notice the rise in kit prices as much because I rarely buy kits anymore. I was one of the unwitting poor souls who built his stash into several hundred kits. Now I realize I'll never finish them in my lifetime. Here's my strategy:
1. Build what I have, my stash is big, I can usually find something that will fit into a campaign or club contest.
2. Buy aftermarket for only what I'm currently building. It gets expensive otherwise.
3. When I want a new kit, I buy from the club's swap meet. There's always someone willing to sell a kit at 50% off retail. I get my "kit fix" and help out a fellow modeler.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Take care,
Don "Lakota"

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That's what I've been doing with my own veritable warehouse of unbuilt kits, but as I've mentioned before, it's getting harder for me to work up my enthusiasm as time goes by. My BIG problem is aside of going on Ebay to sell off what I don't care to keep any more, there aren't any modelers in my immediate area whom I can sell my excess stuff to. No local clubs, etc. I'm disabled, so that curtails my trips to the Post Office with numerous packages, orders, etc.

Ebay's a hassle for me to list my kits for several reasons, the most important of which is that my two cameras are old technology, i.e, without USB plugs in order for me to upload my wares, and EBAY WANTS PHOTOS... So, here I sit...

Some years ago, I managed to sell off quite a bit of 1/35 DRAGON WWII German & Russian stuff, before the likes of MENG, TRUMPETER, MINIART and TAKOM came along and upset DRAGON's applecart. I had MULTIPLES of anything and everything you guys could think of and I found a few guys on Ebay (some really nice guys in Australia) that were more than willing to buy from me. I was selling my kits at an average price of $20.00 each, and I'm talking about the GOOD stuff, NOT the JUNK. But it about killed me in order to do so. Then I had my heart attack, and that was all she wrote...

Buyer's remorse..? Yeah, you could say that...

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There are online wargaming stores, Facebook collectors, sellers, and individuals selling kits from their own homes who will buy entire stashes. The price offers may be on the very low side, but they're willing to buy your entire stash.

Look at comicbook, wargame, Gundam, and Anime stores as unbuilt model kit buyers. I do agree that there aren't many model kit stores around that will buy unbuilt stashes; however, there are plenty of the other kinds of stores above.

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That's all very fine, but how do I get all the models I don't want to build any more out of here without falling down and breaking my neck or having another heart attack..? Getting around on one leg, with a clumsy prosthetic on the other isn't the easiest thing in the world. This is a big problem for me, besides not having "up-to-date" photographic equipment for me to even being able to post my stock. My cellphone takes lousy photos. I'm not about to run out (HA! Run!!!), to buy a $1,000.00 not-so-smart phone...

Packing up a kit or two, or even three here and there is not the problem. It's the big orders of ten, or twenty or more kits at a time... Yeah, I know...

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Look around and shop carefully and you can still find that Tamiya Pzkpfw IV for $22. I got my Border one for $35 including postage.

Stop complaining about MSRP and educate yourself on how to shop around.

---

But who wants to buy that old Tamiya kit for 22 bucks?
Collectors?

If I hadn't gotten rid of the figures (gave them away) I
would consider selling mine on ebay in the hope of finding
a sucker who wants to buy it.


/ Robin

Hi, Peter!

No, I'm not a disabled vet, fortunately.

Unfortunately though, I lost my right leg as a result of diabetes, which has also caused many other health problems for me. We'll leave it at that.

All good and noble suggestions, but you see, I live in a VERY rural area, where none of those VA Hospitals or "Toys-for-Tots" organizations exist, unless I travel at least 120-200 miles (round trip, depending on which city I travel to) in order to donate models which these orgs may not even want. Then there is the wear-and-tear mileage on my car and the costs of the gas, so it's an entirely losing proposition for me. I'd need to round up cardboard boxes to carry all of those models in, as well. And, "as an added EXTRA ATTRACTION", I have to load the car up and empty it out by myself, with me limping around like "Captain Ahab" in "Moby Dick"... I'm better off buying a digital camera and listing my stuff on Ebay, difficult as that is...

Thanks, though...

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I'm guessing your wage numbers come from a web site, but I can assure you few average people where I am are making $23.00 except on an average where the billionaires are included.

Food for thought. We had a contractor installing a system that just returned from mainland China. While on a smoke break he saw a line of people waiting at the gate to get inside. When he asked what the line was for he was told there were a few jobs postings for the plant. He guessed there was 5 or 6 thousand people in line for those few jobs. Any worker is easily replaced, and they know it!

Where I work we have plenty of BDM's (brain dead morons) who linger on because of worker protection laws, and Arizona is a right to work state.

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The only purpose with that official statistic is that it provided a measure that could be compared over the decades.

I forgot to include the link:
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wages

This page:
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t19.htm
show average wages for different sectors.
The average hourly wage for 'Transportation and utilities' in April 2019 is $23.94.
The average doesn't say anything about the most highly paid or those who earn least. Retail trade and 'leisure and hospitality' seems to be low income jobs.
There doesn't seem to be any statistics for billionaires though, maybe they are hiding in the finance sector?

At this link there is a diagram showing the statistics for Arizona: https://www.azeconomy.org/arizona-wages-and-earnings/
Similar values to the whole US, same low income jobs as well.

/ Robin

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I'm guessing your wage numbers come from a web site, but I can assure you few average people where I am are making $23.00 except on an average where the billionaires are included.

Food for thought. We had a contractor installing a system that just returned from mainland China. While on a smoke break he saw a line of people waiting at the gate to get inside. When he asked what the line was for he was told there were a few jobs postings for the plant. He guessed there was 5 or 6 thousand people in line for those few jobs. Any worker is easily replaced, and they know it!

Where I work we have plenty of BDM's (brain dead morons) who linger on because of worker protection laws, and Arizona is a right to work state.

---

The only purpose with that official statistic is that it provided a measure that could be compared over the decades.

I forgot to include the link:
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wages

This page:
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t19.htm
show average wages for different sectors.
The average hourly wage for 'Transportation and utilities' in April 2019 is $23.94.
The average doesn't say anything about the most highly paid or those who earn least. Retail trade and 'leisure and hospitality' seems to be low income jobs.
There doesn't seem to be any statistics for billionaires though, maybe they are hiding in the finance sector?

At this link there is a diagram showing the statistics for Arizona: https://www.azeconomy.org/arizona-wages-and-earnings/
Similar values to the whole US, same low income jobs as well.

/ Robin

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Now I understand. Transportation and utilities are specialized fields. They are not a fair measure of the wages of any state in the US, and are usually a rather small percentage of the population.

Back to the point. I think the industry has gone nuts. There is no way I will be able to enjoy all the great new kits reaching the market and it's driving me crazy.

YIKES I created a monster.
Donald

Now you're talking. I started buying models when there was two brands to choose from, Tamiya and Italeri. Then I found out that there was Heller and ESCI as well but the importer for Sweden didn't bring in the Heller kits because those kits would have competed with their other brand which was Tamiya.

Maybe three to four new kits per year. Conversion sets from Verlinden widened my horizons.
Now there is almost too much to keep track of with news popping up all the time.
When it comes to choice and how spoiled we have become it is truly crazy.
/ Robin

P.S. Some other US average wages for April 2019
Goods-producing 28.80
Mining and logging 33.45
Construction 30.60
Manufacturing 27.47

Construction was around 26 dollars in Arizona and manufacturing peaked at over 27 dollars

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Howdy Y'all
Very interesting and thought provoking thread. I'd have to say I don't notice the rise in kit prices as much because I rarely buy kits anymore. I was one of the unwitting poor souls who built his stash into several hundred kits. Now I realize I'll never finish them in my lifetime. Here's my strategy:
1. Build what I have, my stash is big, I can usually find something that will fit into a campaign or club contest.
2. Buy aftermarket for only what I'm currently building. It gets expensive otherwise.
3. When I want a new kit, I buy from the club's swap meet. There's always someone willing to sell a kit at 50% off retail. I get my "kit fix" and help out a fellow modeler.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Take care,
Don "Lakota"

---

That's what I've been doing with my own veritable warehouse of unbuilt kits, but as I've mentioned before, it's getting harder for me to work up my enthusiasm as time goes by. My BIG problem is aside of going on Ebay to sell off what I don't care to keep any more, there aren't any modelers in my immediate area whom I can sell my excess stuff to. No local clubs, etc. I'm disabled, so that curtails my trips to the Post Office with numerous packages, orders, etc.

Ebay's a hassle for me to list my kits for several reasons, the most important of which is that my two cameras are old technology, i.e, without USB plugs in order for me to upload my wares, and EBAY WANTS PHOTOS... So, here I sit...

Some years ago, I managed to sell off quite a bit of 1/35 DRAGON WWII German & Russian stuff, before the likes of MENG, TRUMPETER, MINIART and TAKOM came along and upset DRAGON's applecart. I had MULTIPLES of anything and everything you guys could think of and I found a few guys on Ebay (some really nice guys in Australia) that were more than willing to buy from me. I was selling my kits at an average price of $20.00 each, and I'm talking about the GOOD stuff, NOT the JUNK. But it about killed me in order to do so. Then I had my heart attack, and that was all she wrote...

Buyer's remorse..? Yeah, you could say that...

---

There are online wargaming stores, Facebook collectors, sellers, and individuals selling kits from their own homes who will buy entire stashes. The price offers may be on the very low side, but they're willing to buy your entire stash.

Look at comicbook, wargame, Gundam, and Anime stores as unbuilt model kit buyers. I do agree that there aren't many model kit stores around that will buy unbuilt stashes; however, there are plenty of the other kinds of stores above.

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That's all very fine, but how do I get all the models I don't want to build any more out of here without falling down and breaking my neck or having another heart attack..? Getting around on one leg, with a clumsy prosthetic on the other isn't the easiest thing in the world. This is a big problem for me, besides not having "up-to-date" photographic equipment for me to even being able to post my stock. My cellphone takes lousy photos. I'm not about to run out (HA! Run!!!), to buy a $1,000.00 not-so-smart phone...

Packing up a kit or two, or even three here and there is not the problem. It's the big orders of ten, or twenty or more kits at a time... Yeah, I know...

---

Dennis,

If you're a Disabled Veteran, the VA Hospital might help take those kits away from you to give to other Disabled Veterans to build. They might even come to your door.

You'll have to give them away free though, but you will give them to other Veteran modelers who will build them through Rehab. The VA Hospital might even pick you up and drive you to Rehab to build model kits with the other Veterans depending on your situation. I know this because I donated kits to my VA Hospital several times. VA wants plastic, not resin.

Even if you're NOT a Disabled Veteran, the same might go with Recruiting Centers, libraries, Universities, police, fire departments, Boy Scouts, and charities. It's amazing what people will take for free. Just make sure that you don't give them to kids (like Toys for Tots) because I doubt kids know how to build them. If you talk to Toys for Tots (the US Marines), make sure that the Marines know that these aren't toys to play around with.

You want respected and trustworthy people from government organizations to come to your door, not some strangers from online or Social Media or Want Ads. Sure, you could get rid of them for free---sure beats throwing them in the trash---and try to get disabled help and services in return. If you don't trust anyone, try your local police and fire department and see if they can connect with Toys for Tots because I'm sure the Marines might build them for something somewhere like museums or military history teaching aids.

If you want to sell them in bulk for money, then that might be another story. Still, you can ask around and see who and what organizations are willing to give, trade, or offer services to.

Yes, there IS help out there. You just have to know how to ask for it and put the money-wanting selling aside...trade your kits in for government help services. The main question should be: WHAT government organization do you want help from and which one is best and closest to you?

=====
As for videogames, I think videogames introduced young people to what kind of armor, planes, ships, gear, and weapons are out there. Videogames, more than books, type-classified weapons with visuals and showed people how these machines and weapons operated.

Do videogames translate to more sales of kits? Well, that might depend on the type of videogame. Anime cartoons sure translated into more Gundams being sold and built, and the same might be said with comic Superhero movies translating into more 1/6 Superhero model kit figures being sold and built.