Border Model announces a new variant of the Panzerkampfwagen IV, the Ausf. F1
Read the Full News Story
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
News
Border: Panzer IV Ausf. F1
varanusk
Managing Editor
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 942 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 07:38 PM UTC
Border Model announces a new variant of the Panzerkampfwagen IV, the Ausf. F1
Read the Full News Story
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 08:34 PM UTC
YAY!!! An "earlier-type" Pz.IV 3-in-1 kit!!! SO welcome after all of those Panther, Tigers I & II kits!!! 
bill_c
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
Armorama: 8,109 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 01:16 AM UTC
I have never built a Border Models kit, how are they?
Bodeen
#026
Joined: June 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,359 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 04:27 AM UTC
I just bought the Border Panzer IV Ausf.G kit. I haven't built it yet but it looks like a great kit just from looking in the box. I'm getting this one too.
brekinapez
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 06:01 AM UTC
We have new companies making Tigers, new ones making Panthers, and now someone making Pz IVs. All we need are new companies taking up the Pz I-III and then someone to pick up all the APCs/AFVs/softskins and that will be pretty much the end of Dragon.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 06:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I have never built a Border Models kit, how are they?
Bill, check out this review of their G kit. For the price it is worth getting.
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/14360
I'll get this one also, and the F2 can't be far behind.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 06:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
We have new companies making Tigers, new ones making Panthers, and now someone making Pz IVs. All we need are new companies taking up the Pz I-III and then someone to pick up all the APCs/AFVs/softskins and that will be pretty much the end of Dragon.
Dragon PZ III's are nice, but I agree 100%.
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 09:00 AM UTC
They could have waited till I worked through all my Italeri kits.
Loved the Border Pzkpfw IV late G. This will be a must especially since it has the bits for the schurtzen equipped ones.
Let's hope they overcome their decal sheet problems. Like how only half the markings for the shown schemes are on the sheet? Even in a few cases providing only one turret number.
Everything else is so good that this stands out as a weird mistake. Like someone didn't do something they were supposed to. Or when they boxed the kit they forgot to put in two decal sheets.
Loved the Border Pzkpfw IV late G. This will be a must especially since it has the bits for the schurtzen equipped ones.
Let's hope they overcome their decal sheet problems. Like how only half the markings for the shown schemes are on the sheet? Even in a few cases providing only one turret number.
Everything else is so good that this stands out as a weird mistake. Like someone didn't do something they were supposed to. Or when they boxed the kit they forgot to put in two decal sheets.
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
Armorama: 2,248 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 11:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I have never built a Border Models kit, how are they?
Bill,
Some guy actually did a build blog here at Armorama... One of the things he discovered was that the turret side doors didn't fit.
We had one show up at a club meet a couple months ago. Compared to Dragon, the details were chunky and rounded. Nobody at my club was impressed. The only really nice thing about the kit is that the hull tub is molded to a large part of the hull superstructure, simplifying that process.
I am still buying secondhand Dragon Panzer IV's whenever a good deal pops up.
Gaz
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 07:31 PM UTC
Just don't go painting it "Powder Blue" as depicted on the box cover of this new Pz.IV... More modelers have made this stupid error over and over again when painting their early World War II German Armor, AFVs and Soft-skins... The stuff was painted a VERY DARK GRAY, period...
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 08:05 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Just don't go painting it "Powder Blue" as depicted on the box cover of this new Pz.IV... More modelers have made this stupid error over and over again when painting their early World War II German Armor, AFVs and Soft-skins... The stuff was painted a VERY DARK GRAY, period...
It's a homage to old war comics. Back then due to the limitations of the color printing process everything German ended up blue and US olive drab was bright green.
ivanhoe6
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 11:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI have never built a Border Models kit, how are they?
Bill, check out this review of their G kit. For the price it is worth getting.
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/14360
I'll get this one also, and the F2 can't be far behind.
That is a great review and a good looking kit !
Dragon, if you care anymore look out ! There could be a new PzIV king of the world now.
jczeus
Joined: February 02, 2016
KitMaker: 36 posts
Armorama: 36 posts
Posted: Monday, July 01, 2019 - 05:16 AM UTC
Agreed about the Panzer Grey!
Reminds of war movies up to the 70ies, like A Bridge Too Far, where German Panzers were painted in light grey primer with huge balkenkreuze on the turret sides.
About this kit: I recently saw a picture in Militärfahrzeug, a German military vehicle magazine from Tankograd, showing a very obscure variant: it was a F2 or G, but with the vorpanzer on the hull (not the turret). This could be made into a kit with a mix of Border Pz IV, interesting!
Edit: it's actually two pictures, both show a F2 with the L/43 gun. So they must be of the small batch of F1 which featured the vorpanzer, but had their turret replaced later on. The pictures also shows one spare wheel attached to each side of the front hull, where the driver's and bow machine gunner's vision ports used to be.
One features winterketten, so I guess it must have been taken in the winter 1942/43. The other one has ordinary tracks.
Reminds of war movies up to the 70ies, like A Bridge Too Far, where German Panzers were painted in light grey primer with huge balkenkreuze on the turret sides.
About this kit: I recently saw a picture in Militärfahrzeug, a German military vehicle magazine from Tankograd, showing a very obscure variant: it was a F2 or G, but with the vorpanzer on the hull (not the turret). This could be made into a kit with a mix of Border Pz IV, interesting!
Edit: it's actually two pictures, both show a F2 with the L/43 gun. So they must be of the small batch of F1 which featured the vorpanzer, but had their turret replaced later on. The pictures also shows one spare wheel attached to each side of the front hull, where the driver's and bow machine gunner's vision ports used to be.
One features winterketten, so I guess it must have been taken in the winter 1942/43. The other one has ordinary tracks.
bill_c
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
Armorama: 8,109 posts
Posted: Monday, July 01, 2019 - 10:35 AM UTC
Thanks, fellas, for the perspective.
Pigment makers have struggled for years to get "right" the bluish cast to Panzergrau when it fades, so I think the illustrator has taken up that challenge.
Quoted Text
Just don't go painting it "Powder Blue" as depicted on the box cover of this new Pz.IV...
Pigment makers have struggled for years to get "right" the bluish cast to Panzergrau when it fades, so I think the illustrator has taken up that challenge.
brekinapez
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Monday, July 01, 2019 - 11:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks, fellas, for the perspective.Quoted TextJust don't go painting it "Powder Blue" as depicted on the box cover of this new Pz.IV...
Pigment makers have struggled for years to get "right" the bluish cast to Panzergrau when it fades, so I think the illustrator has taken up that challenge.
It's not an aspect of fading, it's how the gray itself was formulated. There are warm and cold grays and their interactions with ambient light result in yellowish or bluish grays. Gray can also have green, red, orange or violet tones depending on the mixture. At any rate, the amount of color added for the warmth or coolness is usually 6% or so.
Removed by original poster on 07/01/19 - 23:34:57 (GMT).
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Monday, July 01, 2019 - 11:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextJust don't go painting it "Powder Blue" as depicted on the box cover of this new Pz.IV... More modelers have made this stupid error over and over again when painting their early World War II German Armor, AFVs and Soft-skins... The stuff was painted a VERY DARK GRAY, period...
It's a homage to old war comics. Back then due to the limitations of the color printing process everything German ended up blue and US olive drab was bright green.
Yeah! Back in the old DC COMICS-age... "GI COMBAT- The Haunted Tank"- This was "Lieutenant J.E.B. "Jeb" Stuart, commanding an M3 "Stuart", which was haunted by Great Grandpa, General "Jeb Stuart". Subtle, isn't it? And there was "SGT.ROCK And Our Army At War"- Drawn by Joe Kubert, and once in a very great while, by Russ Heath, who was much more realistic in creating his renderings. His attention to detail was ASTONISHING! The Tiger Is, which Lieutenant "Jeb" Stuart (with a puny 37mm Gun, no less) and SGT.ROCK and his huge side-kick "Bulldozer" (with their even punier hand-grenades) destroyed piece-meal with astonishing regularity were always depicted in PURPLE!!! JEEKERS!!! DON'T get me going on MARVEL COMICS' "SGT.FURY And His Howling Commandos"... Ugh! UGH!!! ONE ISSUE of "SGT.FURY, et al" was all it took! NEVER AGAIN...
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Monday, July 01, 2019 - 11:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks, fellas, for the perspective.Quoted TextJust don't go painting it "Powder Blue" as depicted on the box cover of this new Pz.IV...
Pigment makers have struggled for years to get "right" the bluish cast to Panzergrau when it fades, so I think the illustrator has taken up that challenge.
You know Bill, I don't buy into that line of thinking by the pigment makers. I have numerous books and periodicals which show Pz.IVs "IN REAL, LIVING COLOR", (NBC, on TV with their stylized color peacock, remember?), which DISTINCTLY show early-war German Panzers, AFVs and Soft-skins in DARK GRAY, despite wear and tear, dust, mud, merry-making and party-favors, etc. I believe we're talking about RAL7016 "Anthrazitgrau" or something akin to it, are we not? THAT is a DARK COLOR...
I don't go in for "scale-effect" either, which I've referred to as "a lot of hogwash" on this site in the past. If one uses the PROPER colors, and applies "weathering" in a realistic manner, those light "pastel Baby-Blues", "Baby Greens" and other such-like trash is rendered unnecessary.
Now you other guys can go ahead and shoot me! The Late Great Shepard Paine was a proponent of much more restrained "weathering" than what I see out there, and on this site, as well. One of his maxims was,
(Paraphrased, as I don't have his actual statement in front of my eyes at this moment)
"You can dirty-up a tank, but you don't want to make it look like it had an accident with a flour factory..."
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Monday, July 01, 2019 - 12:11 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I have never built a Border Models kit, how are they?
In addition, I'd like to say that I always thought the now-defunct 1/35 TRISTAR kits (some of which HOBBY BOSS have re-boxed) of the early-war Pz.IVs and their Pz.38(t)s were "the Top of the Line"... One didn't need a billion parts to create a creditable model. True, no "full-Interiors", but us older guys weren't as spoiled as (I'm including the younger guys, now...), "we" are now... But they did give us some nice "indy-inks" in their kits...
Taeuss
Joined: January 03, 2016
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 3,778 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2019 - 08:43 AM UTC
While I'm in complete agreement with virtually everything said here I would point out that the actual differences between the new IV F kit and their original G is virtually nothing. You delete the long barrel gun, the schurtzen and their hanger hardware and a couple of smallish detail things and Voila! A New Kit! Sort of sounds like Dragon to me. Or Trumpeter and their KV series. Crank out every variant possible. And the differences between the F2 and an early G is virtually less than nothing. I eagerly purchased one of Border's excellent G kits and while I have yet to build it I would point out that the included metal gun barrel is NOT what the parts list indicated; it's too short to reach the breach as most kits are wont to do. Epoxying the plastic part cut from their really nice styrene barrels onto the end of the metal ones as suggested by Border is, might I say, stupid. I brought this to the comany's attention thinking that I had a defective metal barrel only to be told that, no, that's how it actually comes, regardless of the picture in the parts list. And they thanked me for my input and support. How about a gun barrel that doesn't involve expoxying parts together? Hmmm? No such luck. Personally I'd think that buying the original G for a good price, removing the mid-to-late feature parts and building an F2 based on the results would be the way to go with the extra parts being used on other deficient kits in the stash. Ditto on the F variant. Just saying.
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2019 - 09:21 AM UTC
Looking at my Border Ausf. G kit instructions, there will be differences with the driver's hatches, the rear grenade rack and mounts, the turret face and the turret top.
So there will probably be modifications to sprues C, and K or different lettered substitute sprues. There are no A, B sprues in the Ausf G kit.
Sprues C and K happen to include the driver's hatches, gun tubes, rear plate, and turret face. Convenient.
They probably went this way to avoid repetition of the Zvezda and Academy Pzkpfw IV ausf H and Zvezda Pzkpfw IV ausf E. Fitting right into the gap between them. And putting out their late/mid Ausg G as opposed to another H? Very savvy.
And since they have the schurtzen in there you can do a Pzkpfw IV ausf F retrofitted with the extra armor.
So there will probably be modifications to sprues C, and K or different lettered substitute sprues. There are no A, B sprues in the Ausf G kit.
Sprues C and K happen to include the driver's hatches, gun tubes, rear plate, and turret face. Convenient.
They probably went this way to avoid repetition of the Zvezda and Academy Pzkpfw IV ausf H and Zvezda Pzkpfw IV ausf E. Fitting right into the gap between them. And putting out their late/mid Ausg G as opposed to another H? Very savvy.
And since they have the schurtzen in there you can do a Pzkpfw IV ausf F retrofitted with the extra armor.
Taeuss
Joined: January 03, 2016
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 3,778 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2019 - 09:44 AM UTC
So, I'm guessing no one else is in the least bit put off at the weird metal gun barrel, incomplete instruction sheet or the customer service rep's meaningless rambling and blatant disregard for my concerns on any of these points? The kit is otherwise terrific.
brekinapez
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2019 - 10:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So, I'm guessing no one else is in the least bit put off at the weird metal gun barrel, incomplete instruction sheet or the customer service rep's meaningless rambling and blatant disregard for my concerns on any of these points? The kit is otherwise terrific.
Those are valid points. The barrel isn't the biggest concern for me as most of my kits are the old plastic barrel dinosaurs but if including it is affecting the price greatly then I would be upset and rather it not be in at all. The instructions might be workable for someone who has built enough Pz IVs that you could probably suss it out but not having seen them firsthand I don't know how incomplete they are. As it is, I am only missing the Ausf B and F2 (my G kit is later in the production line) from the lineup. The Pz III is where I have the most holes.
jczeus
Joined: February 02, 2016
KitMaker: 36 posts
Armorama: 36 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2019 - 07:02 PM UTC
This might going off a tangent, but hopefully we can put a long held myth to rest (as has already been done regarding the first batch of Krupp turrets on early Tiger IIs).
I myself was totally confused regarding the versions of the Panzer IV in the transition period from short-barrelled (L/24) to long-barrelled (L/43, L/48) KwK.
Having read up on the subject, I think we could avoid a lot of confusion if we would just be speaking of versions F and G, period.
Sure, for a time period of 3 months or so, the short-barrelled F was redesignated F1 (7./BW), and the long-barrelled got the label F2 (7./BW Umbau).
However, this was retroactively changed in September 1942, where the long-barrelled version was henceforth called version G.
Of course there have been changes during production, like omitting vision ports that weakened armour protection and were obstructed by the schürzen anyway, just to name an example.
And there were frankentanks like the one I mentioned earlier: F hull with vorpanzer plus G turret.
In other words, it makes next to no sense to talk about late F2, early G and the differences between them. I wish model manufacturers would stop adding to the confusion.
It should only be of interest to readers of combat reports and such.
To reiterate:
Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf F = 7./BW = Sd.Kfz. 161, KwK 37 L/24,
Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf G = 8./BW = Sd.Kfz. 161/1, KwK 40 L/43 and L/48.
I myself was totally confused regarding the versions of the Panzer IV in the transition period from short-barrelled (L/24) to long-barrelled (L/43, L/48) KwK.
Having read up on the subject, I think we could avoid a lot of confusion if we would just be speaking of versions F and G, period.
Sure, for a time period of 3 months or so, the short-barrelled F was redesignated F1 (7./BW), and the long-barrelled got the label F2 (7./BW Umbau).
However, this was retroactively changed in September 1942, where the long-barrelled version was henceforth called version G.
Of course there have been changes during production, like omitting vision ports that weakened armour protection and were obstructed by the schürzen anyway, just to name an example.
And there were frankentanks like the one I mentioned earlier: F hull with vorpanzer plus G turret.
In other words, it makes next to no sense to talk about late F2, early G and the differences between them. I wish model manufacturers would stop adding to the confusion.
It should only be of interest to readers of combat reports and such.
To reiterate:
Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf F = 7./BW = Sd.Kfz. 161, KwK 37 L/24,
Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf G = 8./BW = Sd.Kfz. 161/1, KwK 40 L/43 and L/48.
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2019 - 08:00 PM UTC
Quoted Text
So, I'm guessing no one else is in the least bit put off at the weird metal gun barrel, incomplete instruction sheet or the customer service rep's meaningless rambling and blatant disregard for my concerns on any of these points? The kit is otherwise terrific.
See above for my complaint about the decal sheet.
And the instructions are odd with some lines not properly printed due to using a spot color, so the arrows showing where to put a part are invisible.
But at least it's not the tangled mess of a Dragon sheet, showing the parts in the wrong place so you misaligned everything and don't find out till you are perplexed as to why nothing fits. Dragon M4A3 105mm HVSS I'm looking at you.
And we all have heard all kinds of horror stories about apathetic to nonexistent customer service from model companies. If it's not a domestic company, I don't even try anymore. I'm certain there will enough customers lambasting them in their native language.
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.