If there is already a topic on this I apologize (and please post me the link so I can find it, thanks).
Rob
Hosted by Darren Baker
How to build a reasonably accurate Jumbo...
rfeehan
Joined: July 20, 2003
KitMaker: 727 posts
Armorama: 648 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 10:42 PM UTC
Assuming someone wants to build a Sherman Jumbo from the Tamiya kit can someone suggest the aftermarket parts that would be needed to do this kit up correctly? I am not a Sherman expert at all but I have read that the kit turret is junk. I am not talking about a full bore type correction just whatever is reasonable to make a decent representation of the Jumbo. Also if the Tamiya kit is a bad starting point then please suggest an alternative but I would like to use it if I can.
If there is already a topic on this I apologize (and please post me the link so I can find it, thanks).
Rob
If there is already a topic on this I apologize (and please post me the link so I can find it, thanks).
Rob
thebear
Joined: November 15, 2002
KitMaker: 3,960 posts
Armorama: 3,579 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 01:52 AM UTC
Hi Rob ....Well there are really two ways you can go for this ..either the TWS Jumbo conversion which is not too bad and not too expensive,or you can go all out and get the Blast kit ...This is the latest version of the Jumbo and is the most accurate..Still have some little things to do like raised weld beads on the hull but very good all together..Worth more but you get more too ..Very nice .50 cal ..probably the best in 1/35 scale . For either of these conversions you won't be using much from the doner kit ,so the Tamiya kit is fine.
Rick
Rick
rfeehan
Joined: July 20, 2003
KitMaker: 727 posts
Armorama: 648 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 02:04 AM UTC
The TWS kit I see on web is a turret and a turned barrel basically. Is that the correct one? Also the Blast stuff is there a dealer in the USA I can mail order it from I don't like overseas ordering if I can avoid it the shipping is usually pretty expensive.
Thanks Rick!
Thanks Rick!
thebear
Joined: November 15, 2002
KitMaker: 3,960 posts
Armorama: 3,579 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 02:15 AM UTC
If you look at the TWS site you can get the whole conversion kit which is the turret , hull and transmission cover ...You reall need that one ..I know they do sell them separately but cheaper all together.. As for Blast I'm not sure who keeps them in North America but they do have good service directly from them . I know it is expensive but that is the best way to go ...
Rick
Rick
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 02:18 AM UTC
Tank Workshop marketed the Jumbo upper hull, Jumbo turret with aluminum barrel, uparmored transmission cover and a set that included all three items together. I do not know if they still market them the same way after TMD took them over.
As stated, the turret is not correctly done, the upper hull is simply the regular Tamiya A3 hull with 3 pieces of additional armor glued to the front and sides, and the transmission cover is the same one used in the Tamiya A3 kit. Tamiya went cheap when they tooled their Jumbo. Unfortunately, at the time they did not realize that Shermanholics would become some of the most anal modelers around.
If you just want a Sherman that looks like a Jumbo, and different from the regular Sherman, the Tamiya kit is OK. The turret looks distinct enough from the normal 75 or 76 mm turrets to fool a casual observer. The hull can pass for an uparmored one with a little work around the edges where the armor plates meet the top of the hull. The tranny cover is weak and could be beefed up with putty if you're good.
But I think it is easier to find the TWS stuff (got mine at a steal from someone who just had to have the Blast instead).
As stated, the turret is not correctly done, the upper hull is simply the regular Tamiya A3 hull with 3 pieces of additional armor glued to the front and sides, and the transmission cover is the same one used in the Tamiya A3 kit. Tamiya went cheap when they tooled their Jumbo. Unfortunately, at the time they did not realize that Shermanholics would become some of the most anal modelers around.
If you just want a Sherman that looks like a Jumbo, and different from the regular Sherman, the Tamiya kit is OK. The turret looks distinct enough from the normal 75 or 76 mm turrets to fool a casual observer. The hull can pass for an uparmored one with a little work around the edges where the armor plates meet the top of the hull. The tranny cover is weak and could be beefed up with putty if you're good.
But I think it is easier to find the TWS stuff (got mine at a steal from someone who just had to have the Blast instead).
rfeehan
Joined: July 20, 2003
KitMaker: 727 posts
Armorama: 648 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 04:26 AM UTC
Found both the Blast and TWS stuff at Mission models so I am set. Now to decide if I want to spend 70 bucks to fix a 20 dollar kit... LOL.
thebear
Joined: November 15, 2002
KitMaker: 3,960 posts
Armorama: 3,579 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 05:04 AM UTC
Ain't that always the way !! :-)
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 09:58 AM UTC
I have done much research on this to make the pre-emminent Jumbo myself. And before the Blasy kit came out.
If you followed the other thread, you went to the Pictures I took of the vehicle at Camp Ripley, MN.
I have all three TWS kits (Turret, upper hull, and tranny cover) as well as the dished wheels. I am adding this to a Tamiya M4A3 kit.
Now I have seen the Blast kit, and it is great, but it has a few problems as well. Definately the best all-in-one conversion, but if you just want something better than the Tamiya offfering and don't want to drop the $70 for the blast kit, I would recomend the TWS. Very little really needs to be added to make the kit on par with the Blast conversion. ( I know, I know, here we go with the debates...
) This is my PERSONAL opinion after playing on the real deal and comparing it to the TWS stuff in my hands just to make sure.
Additions to the TWS kit that need to be done for sure is the verticle weld seem down the hull sides. Neither the TWS nor the Blast tranny cover have the correct "double-layer" effect I note on the web-page, but if you ar that anal about this kit to care, then you probably need to buy the Blast conv.
Finally, there are the weld seams on the turret roof that would also need to be dealt with if you so desire, but these are mostly for the die-hard fan of the Jumbo.
Now, have some fun!
If you followed the other thread, you went to the Pictures I took of the vehicle at Camp Ripley, MN.
I have all three TWS kits (Turret, upper hull, and tranny cover) as well as the dished wheels. I am adding this to a Tamiya M4A3 kit.
Now I have seen the Blast kit, and it is great, but it has a few problems as well. Definately the best all-in-one conversion, but if you just want something better than the Tamiya offfering and don't want to drop the $70 for the blast kit, I would recomend the TWS. Very little really needs to be added to make the kit on par with the Blast conversion. ( I know, I know, here we go with the debates...
) This is my PERSONAL opinion after playing on the real deal and comparing it to the TWS stuff in my hands just to make sure.Additions to the TWS kit that need to be done for sure is the verticle weld seem down the hull sides. Neither the TWS nor the Blast tranny cover have the correct "double-layer" effect I note on the web-page, but if you ar that anal about this kit to care, then you probably need to buy the Blast conv.
Finally, there are the weld seams on the turret roof that would also need to be dealt with if you so desire, but these are mostly for the die-hard fan of the Jumbo.
Now, have some fun!
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 11:46 AM UTC
All good advice on this thread, but if you just want to build one for the collection and not for the contest table, it's not that bad "tweaked" out the box with a thickened final drive housing (aka "transmission housing") and a bit of PE. It's good enough to fill a gap on my shelf, but I wouldn't enter it in a contest. I may eventually get a Blast kit to fill that role.
TankDan
Joined: April 14, 2013
KitMaker: 34 posts
Armorama: 30 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 03:10 AM UTC
exactly it there...spend 70 bucks to fix a 20 dollar kit. I can fix the 20 dollar Tamiya for free..I just need the correct info.
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 03:21 AM UTC
Holy 11 year necrothread, Batman!! 
C_JACQUEMONT
Joined: October 09, 2004
KitMaker: 2,433 posts
Armorama: 2,325 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 06:26 AM UTC
I have the Blast conversion which I could sell cheaper than $70 or even trade against something else. Contact me if interested.
Cheers,
Christophe
Cheers,
Christophe
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 07:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I have the Blast conversion which I could sell cheaper than $70 or even trade against something else. Contact me if interested.
Cheers,
Christophe
Wouldn't it be better to just buy the far newer Tasca version instead?
C_JACQUEMONT
Joined: October 09, 2004
KitMaker: 2,433 posts
Armorama: 2,325 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 07:17 AM UTC
He said he wanted to use the Tamiya kit if possible.
Also was quoting my post absolutely necessary? You could just put your comment without the quote.
Cheers,
Christophe
Also was quoting my post absolutely necessary? You could just put your comment without the quote.
Cheers,
Christophe
TankDan
Joined: April 14, 2013
KitMaker: 34 posts
Armorama: 30 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 04:00 PM UTC
lol...now boys...I will use the Tamiya kit...I bought it, I'll use it. Thanks for the offer on the Blast conversion, but honestly I could buy the complete Tasca or 2 more crummy Tamiyas for the cost of the Blast.
What I need, if anybody is willing to divulge, is the measurements off a "good" turret, meaning either the Tasca, Blast, or Tank Work Shop. That way I know what I need to do to the Tamy turret to fix it. The trans cover is no biggy...that's just a matter of thickening it up. The road wheel inaccuracy is negligible to me. Anybody willing to step up to the plate? Thanks for the responses on this dusty old thread too
What I need, if anybody is willing to divulge, is the measurements off a "good" turret, meaning either the Tasca, Blast, or Tank Work Shop. That way I know what I need to do to the Tamy turret to fix it. The trans cover is no biggy...that's just a matter of thickening it up. The road wheel inaccuracy is negligible to me. Anybody willing to step up to the plate? Thanks for the responses on this dusty old thread too
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 04:57 PM UTC
I would suggest selling or just binning the Tamiya instead of trying to fix it , the kit is so old with so many flaws attempting to do anything special with it in 2015 would be putting 5 tons of lipstick on a pig,
Tim.
Tim.
Removed by original poster on 10/04/15 - 12:56:02 (GMT).
TankDan
Joined: April 14, 2013
KitMaker: 34 posts
Armorama: 30 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 07:37 PM UTC
Not trying to sound like an s$$ here, but I'm not really looking for suggestions, and certainly not looking to give up on a kit because it has a couple things wrong with it. If that were the case I'd never build a model kit. I'm not a rivet counter, I just want to try to make certain aspects of the model more accurate to achieve the right look. Just looking for some dimensional measurements so I can fix what is wrong with this kit. I guess no one wants to help. Thank you. Good bye.
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 08:45 PM UTC
I wasn't rivet counting, just explaining that the Tamiya M4A3E2 is so far behind modern kits of the tank in terms of fit, detail, accuracy, engineering etc that is no point trying to build it even if you have it.
Tim.
Tim.
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
Armorama: 3,947 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 08:51 PM UTC
@TankDan:
Here's an article with fixes for the base Tamiya M4A3 kit
http://www.usarmymodels.com/MANUFACTURERS/Tamiya/tamiya35122.html The article is dated and many more aftermarket corrections exist if you want to go that route. The hull dimensions are fine.
The biggest issues with the Jumbo are the inaccurate transmission housing and the shape of the turret. You can probably source those by putting up requests on various AFV classified pages. I'm sure lots of guys got turret and Jumbo trans replacement parts way back in the day but never used them. I'm sure there are good numbers of them sitting in dark boxes on guys' shelves and they'd be happy to sell them to you for a few bucks.
Before the Blast and Formations conversions and the Tasca kit, this is how people modeled the M4A3E2
Here's an article with fixes for the base Tamiya M4A3 kit
http://www.usarmymodels.com/MANUFACTURERS/Tamiya/tamiya35122.html The article is dated and many more aftermarket corrections exist if you want to go that route. The hull dimensions are fine.
The biggest issues with the Jumbo are the inaccurate transmission housing and the shape of the turret. You can probably source those by putting up requests on various AFV classified pages. I'm sure lots of guys got turret and Jumbo trans replacement parts way back in the day but never used them. I'm sure there are good numbers of them sitting in dark boxes on guys' shelves and they'd be happy to sell them to you for a few bucks.
Before the Blast and Formations conversions and the Tasca kit, this is how people modeled the M4A3E2
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 09:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Just looking for some dimensional measurements so I can fix what is wrong with this kit. I guess no one wants to help. Thank you. Good bye.
Maybe it just needs to be explained more directly: There's no amount of measurements that can help you "fix" the Tamiya Jumbo turret. It is fundamentally wrong in shape by significant amounts.
YOU
CAN'T
FIX
IT.
If you can't see that you should just use the Tamiya kit as-is.
You are essentially asking for the formula to turn lead into gold. Rather than accepting that it's impossible you are blaming people for not giving you the secret.
KL
cutigerfan
Joined: February 21, 2010
KitMaker: 133 posts
Armorama: 85 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 10:09 PM UTC
Maybe late with this post, but for the money and time just purchase the Asuka kit. You won't be disappointed.
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2015 - 02:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextJust looking for some dimensional measurements so I can fix what is wrong with this kit. I guess no one wants to help. Thank you. Good bye.
Maybe it just needs to be explained more directly: There's no amount of measurements that can help you "fix" the Tamiya Jumbo turret. It is fundamentally wrong in shape by significant amounts.
YOU
CAN'T
FIX
IT.
If you can't see that you should just use the Tamiya kit as-is.
You are essentially asking for the formula to turn lead into gold. Rather than accepting that it's impossible you are blaming people for not giving you the secret.
KL
This one [auto-censored]ing million times.
TankDan
Joined: April 14, 2013
KitMaker: 34 posts
Armorama: 30 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2015 - 05:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I wasn't rivet counting, just explaining that the Tamiya M4A3E2 is so far behind modern kits of the tank in terms of fit, detail, accuracy, engineering etc that is no point trying to build it even if you have it.
Tim.
I understand the kit isn't up to todays standards Tim. That's one reason I bought it...it's cheap (comparatively) and accessable. I don't mind putting in the work to make a crap kit into something nice...its sort of my "thing", and I don't mean accomplishing this by sticking a bunch of aftermarket PE and resin on it that, when I'm done, cost 3 times the price of the original kit. I'd rather do it myself, "build" a model. http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8653
No, KL, I'm not blaming anyone. I'm asking for assistance. I'm asking for measurements of a "good" (accurate) turret so that I can make my own, or modify the kit one to work. I don't know if it cant be fixed. Am I supposed to take your word for it? I'm not going to, because your methods aren't my methods and, frankly, maybe it's your methods that cant fix the Tamiya turret. Instead of anyone being willing to help (exceptions Tom and Roy), all anyone can say is "it cant be done", spend your money on something that's already done so you don't have to do any work".
I have not heard of the Asuka...I'll have to check that out..thank you.
I recognize reworking the Tamiya kit wont be easy...that's one reason I took it on. I don't need to be told how difficult or "impossible" it is...I'll figure that part out on my own. All I need are numbers.
TankDan
Joined: April 14, 2013
KitMaker: 34 posts
Armorama: 30 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2015 - 05:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
@TankDan:
Here's an article with fixes for the base Tamiya M4A3 kit
http://www.usarmymodels.com/MANUFACTURERS/Tamiya/tamiya35122.html The article is dated and many more aftermarket corrections exist if you want to go that route. The hull dimensions are fine.
The biggest issues with the Jumbo are the inaccurate transmission housing and the shape of the turret. You can probably source those by putting up requests on various AFV classified pages. I'm sure lots of guys got turret and Jumbo trans replacement parts way back in the day but never used them. I'm sure there are good numbers of them sitting in dark boxes on guys' shelves and they'd be happy to sell them to you for a few bucks.
Before the Blast and Formations conversions and the Tasca kit, this is how people modeled the M4A3E2
Thanks Roy! Wow...someone with constructive advice! I have seen this article you linked to, and it's a great source. It at least points out the problems with the kit and offers some advice. I know Steve Zaloga also wrote an article in a 2002 publication where he detailed his construction and accurizing of this kit, but I cant seem to find it anywhere.
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