Hi there again.. I tend to use Model Master enamals because I like their line of colors (there is a good amount to choose from) and I like how enamal paint sprays out the airbrush and I tend to have better luck with them than acrylics.. not that I don't use tamiya acrylics now and then. plus many other mediums.

I have yet to do a 3 color camo on german armor but from my reading and talking to those who have and use MM enamals I've heard some use "rust:" for the bronw and others swear by signalbraun there are many browns in MM colors to chose from or mix into your own custom color.. there are prob at least 8 distint colors of brown in my toolbox alone.. as for green there are many shades to choose from. to get an idea of whats in the line spend some time checking out the color chips on the MM paint racks in your local hobby store..

I'm not saying other lines don't have good paint.. I just perfer model master myself.

I have to say delbert you are absolutley correct i love the convinience of enamel
it doesnt clog the airbrush nozzel at all ,in fat what i tried to say but started to get too long winded :-) was i mostly model for commission
so acrylics allow me to do more for the pay!
however i also use enamel for personal projects
only problem for me is getting hold of MM Paints
theyre so hard to get here, only a few places carry them , such as hannants ,but i have to say dont order unless you plan for your order to arrive on your 90th birthday , :-)
and i dont have a credit card ,to order o/s/ .
other wise i would use them all the time ,tamiya is just tons more convinient for me! the two, hobby stores in my entire miniscule city only carry humbrol (yuck)
or tamiya ,so i'm limited unfortunetly but
great stuff if you can get it .

I generally use the Model master Olivgrun for the greens on my vehicles. I use the schocoladebraun when it is the only color I desire and the Signalbrau for the 3 color. Have been known to use burnt Sienna at times to but usually mixed with another brownish color . In my neck of the woods, the Tamiya and MM are easy to get, Humbrol is a bit of a challenge except through mail order, and I know of only one place to get WEM ( for ships)

Personally, I like the MM for the base on my tanks. I find that it gives a nicer colour and it feels a little more realistic.
The only thing I don't like about the MM paints is that I usually have to put on an extra coat or two when airbrushing them. I find that the Tamiya covers and needs fewer coats then the MM.

thanks for the replies guys! i also prefer signalbraun and schokobraun for the brown and dark green and olivegrun for the green. i just feel the MM dunkel doesnt have a good enough contrast with the green. i like a more yellow beneath the brown and green. just my preference!!
sincerely
ian

Ian i think it certainly gives the model more life!

Do anybody have the RAL colorcode for dunkelgelb?
The RAL colorcode system dates back to 1925. the Germans, being very systematic, must have used this colorcode system.

its documented as RAL 7028 in a lot of places,
but even this varies ,
even so called "original" colour chips vary dramatically
if you look in my gallery you will see a close up picture of a fallschirmjager helmet and hand painted badge insignia on the side of it ,its dunkelgelb ,this was taken at a museum in france ,dont know which one as my friend took the photo
but is supposed to be "original"

Ola People

Well I see we have one of the old debates here.

I personally don`t bother much of wich Number of paint I take to represent Dunkelgelb or any other colour needed. I do almost all my painting with Enamels and when I go to the modellingshop to buy paint I always pick them on sight. Same goes with painting. I almost never use color straight from the bottle but usually mix it with another to get a different tone. In green I tend to do a little dessert yellow or Khaki to get a bit lighter (dusty) color etc. etc. If I got the feeling it is the correct color then it is the correct color for me. Any sandcolored paint will do for Dunkelgelb. I often use midstone from Humbrol. But also plain dessert Yellow with a few drops of US army light green. I can go on and on as virtually none of my mixes is the same.
Paint on vehicles is attacked by several factors of wich the worst is weather. And there will be a lot of variations in tone. Either MM or Humbrol or whatever brand brings out Dunkelgelb will do well

Robert my thoughts exactly i always pick colours on sight

only the Dunkelgrün and Rotbrau camouflage was applied in the field. In addition, in August 1944, the vehicles also received the camouflage at the factories, and from September 1944, the vehicle was to have a base of Rot primer, and then be camouflaged in the field.

So, except for possibly 'back-fitting' of Dunkelgelb, no vehicle received a Dunkelgelb base in the field.

you often see vehicles recieving dunkelgelb
over dark grey and over the oxide primer in the field

Ola

Another thing I want to say is that you can change the color Afterwarths with filtering and washing. This is my Sd.Kfz 250/10 in Polish service painted with Humbrol dessert Yellow wich was quite........... yellow With 2 or 3 washes and no less then 75 filters later the color was changed to a less Yellowish more other colorish vehicle. here are some pics:






Because of the filters you have this really neat coloration of the base color and all around the vehicle the color is just a slight different.

nice lookin model FAUST impressive stuff you really altered that base colour!
i think if a model looks right to who ever builds it then it is ,
we often miss the point of this hobby for the sake of "couting rivets" .the point is ENJOY IT!" its supposed to be nourishment not punishment :-)

exactly raynor, i just started i to see if there were other color variations because the MM was making my vehicles really dead. also...does MM offer a rotbraun? (redbrown)? i use signalbraun alot but was wondering if they have a red brown too?
ian

Ian i dont know enough about MM colours available ?
but should imgine so thier range is etensive

I've actually "cheated" a bit, when I paint with Panzer Grey...I bought a rattlecan of Dark Grey Automotive Primer, and it's real close to Panzer Grey, that's what I use now (sometimes I'm too lazy to airbrush) :-)
Richard (thebear), out of curiosity, do you happen to have a mixture ratio you use for your yellow, I love the colour mix you used on that Sturmtiger, I know you said you used a mix of XF-59, 60 and some white, but was there a set mix or did you just eyeball it?
Thanks
Kelly

Where exactly do you see this?
The only yellow that was applied onto the grey of the early years was for DAK vehicles but this waas not Dunkelgelb #7028.
On 17 March 1941, Inspektorate 2 ordered that equipment (including all vehicles) employed by troops in Africa was to be painted gelbbraun RAL 8000/graugruen RAL 7008 - both colors matt (not reflective).

for a start in the book series "panzer colours"
it shows 251's with dark yellow cross hatching over grey and also late panthers with dark yellow over red oxide factory finish

I have to mention thought Jet that my initial responses erlier in this thread did make it sound like i ment dunkelgelb was never factory applied .of course it was
and was the only colour of the 3 tone camo that was ,

Okay that relates to the post above (you must have posted at the same time as me).
Yes there was a yellow colour applied but it is not 7028. Dunkelgelb. You need to be informed also that the info in artists colour plates is not really accurate- it's an artist's interpretation. Second the whole "Panzer Colors " series while good in some ways is quite flawed in others- I would not rely on that series for accurate info.

well i'm not to worried i just enjoy modelling i cant be bothered counting rivets!
if i worried about weather this colour was spot on or that i wouldnt ever get anything done
to me thats just pointless no wonder so many people decide to drop military models!

Well that's fine- enjoy your modelling that's not the point. If one is going to comment on the accuracy of a paint process and colour- you need to back it up with facts- like in any debate- and you chose to enter this debate with your original post. You seem to be pretty loose with the color thing and hey that's fine. And I'm not rivet counting -just trying to share info. Take it or leave it.
Here is a link to some info on the errors in Panzer Colors.
http://web.archive.org/web/20001017121313/http://www.geocities.com/Baja/1654/errors.html

i'm begining to regret joining this thread!
if i was a new modeller i'd be real worried about now
and totally confused!

Maybe maybe not... some may be grateful for the facts and not soft logic and opinions. I think getting the right info at the start is more helpful isn't it.