Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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AFV club Tiger
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 04:42 AM UTC
Scott, precisely becase of the Famos, and the Dragon Wagons and the Cromwells is WHY I have a downer on Tamiya. Any company that was capable of producing kits of the extraordinary quality of these (and gives up) deserves to get hammered. To give up the position they had because of bad management deseves little respect. A company that instead of building on the quality they established, allowed bad management to virtually ruin the company. We should have respect for that?

What do you suggest? Jump up and down with glee every time they re-pop another 30 year -old motorized toy?

As for Bronco, when they hit, they won't be major players for a while yet, but everything indicates they have done market research. Something Tamiya-San seems to have little interest in..Jim
Monte
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Rhode Island, United States
Joined: December 08, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 05:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Scott, precisely becase of the Famos, and the Dragon Wagons and the Cromwells is WHY I have a downer on Tamiya. Any company that was capable of producing kits of the extraordinary quality of these (and gives up) deserves to get hammered. To give up the position they had because of bad management deseves little respect. A company that instead of building on the quality they established, allowed bad management to virtually ruin the company. We should have respect for that?

What do you suggest? Jump up and down with glee every time they re-pop another 30 year -old motorized toy?

As for Bronco, when they hit, they won't be major players for a while yet, but everything indicates they have done market research. Something Tamiya-San seems to have little interest in..Jim



Once again Jim you hit the nail on the head. If Tamiyia wants to give up on it's 1/35 line and persue other things fine, go ahead. But if things don't go their way and they decide to go back they are going to be playing a huge game of catch up.

Personaly I coulden't care less what they do. I have other companies puting out great stuff at a cheaper price. Tamiyia is either going to get it's act in gear and start producing good stuff again or they are going to go the way of the Dodo-san.

Either way I benefit.
SEDimmick
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: March 15, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 07:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Scott, precisely becase of the Famos, and the Dragon Wagons and the Cromwells is WHY I have a downer on Tamiya. Any company that was capable of producing kits of the extraordinary quality of these (and gives up) deserves to get hammered. To give up the position they had because of bad management deseves little respect. A company that instead of building on the quality they established, allowed bad management to virtually ruin the company. We should have respect for that?

What do you suggest? Jump up and down with glee every time they re-pop another 30 year -old motorized toy?

As for Bronco, when they hit, they won't be major players for a while yet, but everything indicates they have done market research. Something Tamiya-San seems to have little interest in..Jim



I dont get where you can say Tamiya has "given up the fight" when it comes to 1/35. They have a new LeClerc on the way and I'm sure they'll have some other suprizes for us during the year. Their move into the 1/48 scale market is to expand their range, not to take away from what they are currently offering. They are going after an untapped market without many other players in it.

Well for Bronco..well they have shown me NOTHING. Same thing could be said about Panda models...lots of interesting things in their catalog, but no plastic on the shelfs to buy.



SEDimmick
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Posted: Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 07:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

There is absolutely no call for a personal attack, or the use of expressions such as those on a site such as this. Temper your loyalty to Tamiya with the realisation that they don't even know or care that you exist. They are in it for the profits, exactly the same as every other business out there. They just don't want to do through making armour kits anymore. Please think about editing your above post.

Vinnie



Vinnie,

i'm not a lacky for Tamiya. I'm not going to change my comments since I believe in what I have said. As for Tamiya, hey I dont care what they do...when they come out with something that interestes me I'll buy it, but I'm also not going let someone beat a dead horse saying that they are finished just because they are slowing down their 1/35 output.

Teacher
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 05, 2003
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Posted: Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 07:45 AM UTC
Damn it Scott,
I am NOT talking about your views about Tamiya. I am talking about making a personal attack on another respected member of this site and using expressions such as you used in THAT post. I see that you agreed Tamiya have all but stopped their 1/35 output, which is all that we have been saying.

Vinnie
jet
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 30, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 04:47 PM UTC
just for those who may be interested -I will actually be building AFV Clubs and DML's Tiger I over at planetArmor.There is a major upgade going on there right now but that should be done on the weekend -the good lord willing. While IN-BOX reviews tell some of the story, (I take them with a healthy grain of salt after several personal experiences), the real proof in the puddin is in the gluin' of the parts. I only have the DML Tiger I right now - and it does look like a fantastic kit. I hope to just stick to facts with both builds and will lay out the information as it comes along - good points and bad will be unabashly displayed. I have no bias (other than an ingrained need to protect an underdog) for either AFV or Dragon. I like both companies' products- I actually have two of the Dragon Tiger I's. One for the #100 and I think I will backdate one to a prototype Tiger.

http://www.planetarmor.com/

http://www.forums.kitspy.com/index.php?showtopic=4555

(note: because of the upgrade maybe just maybe the links may be orphaned or whatever after the next configuration comes on line. If that is the case I will update these links if needed)

(edit:-changed urls)
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 06:45 PM UTC
These Tigers sure opened up a big messy can o' worms :-) :-)
moose
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Western Australia, Australia
Joined: January 03, 2003
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Posted: Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 09:19 PM UTC
Hi Guys,

Sorry to change the subject a little but as Bronco was mentioned I can say I have just received a sample of their first H39 kit and a review will be posted on PMMS over the weekend.

Cheers
Terry A
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
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Posted: Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 09:23 PM UTC
Thanks for that Terry. Nice to know that the unreasonable cynicism of some people is entirely misplaced...Jim
jet
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 30, 2002
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Posted: Friday, February 18, 2005 - 02:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Guys,

Sorry to change the subject a little but as Bronco was mentioned I can say I have just received a sample of their first H39 kit and a review will be posted on PMMS over the weekend.

Cheers
Terry A



cool
SEDimmick
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: March 15, 2002
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Posted: Friday, February 18, 2005 - 04:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Guys,

Sorry to change the subject a little but as Bronco was mentioned I can say I have just received a sample of their first H39 kit and a review will be posted on PMMS over the weekend.

Cheers
Terry A



Terry

Where did you get th Bronco H39 from?

I'm interested in getting one

Shado1
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Tochigi-ken, Japan / 日本
Joined: July 24, 2003
KitMaker: 211 posts
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Posted: Friday, February 18, 2005 - 08:09 AM UTC
Hmmm...I thought this thread was about the new AFV Club Tiger I, but it seems to be more about bashing and lamenting about Tamiya and discouraging comments about products before they come out...too bad.

Just thought you'd be interested in hearing that the new AFV Club Tiger I late version is on the shelves here in Japan. selling for $28 USD. Looked great in the box, but as has been mentioned, the belt-style tracks are a wee bit of a disappointment (although they are nicely molded). Nothing ModelKasten or Friulmodel couldn't fix, of course. But that'll cost ya extra!!

As nice as they are, I'm passing on all these new Tigers, because, frankly, I already have enough Tigers.

I didn't get the AFV Club Tiger today, but I did get Trumpeter's great new C1 Ariete!
And I'll be sure to get Tamiya's Leclerc when it comes out, too!

And folks, try not to take Tamiya's business decisions so personally, OK? Nobody's out to get you, or ruin your personal goals in this hobby. There are plenty of other makers out there putting out great kits in your favorite scales, so build what you like!

Now, back to this new AFV Club Tiger I late version...
cach7
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New York, United States
Joined: October 13, 2002
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Posted: Friday, February 18, 2005 - 01:28 PM UTC
can't we all just get along? I do believe Tamiya has ignored its 1/35 scale armor modlers.
Plasticbattle
#003
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Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
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Posted: Friday, February 18, 2005 - 02:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text

just for those who may be interested -I will actually be building AFV Clubs and DML's Tiger I over at planetArmor


Hi James. I for one am definately interested. I loved the 251 and Pak 40 articles you´ve done there already ... a great point of reference for the rest of us.
To have the same again for the Tigers, will be awesome. Love the blog style articles. Great work! :-)
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
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Posted: Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 12:50 AM UTC
James, the DML Tiger has aleady been built and painted by someone on this site....Jim
Kelley
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Posted: Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 04:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

James, the DML Tiger has aleady been built and painted by someone on this site....Jim


So Jim, following your logic, since it's already been done here there's no need to do it anywhere else? Jeez, just because it's not here doesn't mean that some of us wouldn't enjoy following James' build.

Mike
Teacher
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England - North West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 05:02 AM UTC
Oh grow up Mike. From the tone of Jame's original post, it indicated he didn't know there was a build review of the Tiger on this site and he was just pointing it out to him. Stop looking for offence where there isn't any.

Vinnie
Kelley
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 05:24 AM UTC
Vinnie, I may be wrong but seeing as how your build and paint feature has been on the latest posts front page for several days it's been hard to miss. Now James might not have seen it, but the fact remains...some of us would enjoy seeing another build of the Tiger, especially if done simultaneously with the AFV club kit. Jim's post to me comes across like he's saying we don't need that since it's already been done. This is the second time in this thread you've jumped on someone who was replying to a post by Jim, why not let him take care of it, I'm sure he can.
Jim I apologize if I mis-interpreted your post, it just seems it could have been worded a little differently to me.

Regards,
Mike


edit: I just went back and read James' post, I don't get the impression he didn't know about your build Vinnie. Since this thread was originally about the AFV Club Tiger, it comes across to me like he is letting us know he is building the AFV kit while at the same time building the Dragon Tiger for comparison purposes.
jet
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 30, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 05:28 AM UTC
well I don't know when I saw the build here,(before or after my post, prolly after ) but - that is irrelavant.
Thank you Mike for your comments-
I feel all builds, regardless of where they are posted, (or when, are scoops really that important-?) helps the uninitiated modeller become aquainted with a particular model prior to building.

Mr.Branigan's build is well done and I'm sure will be helpful to all of us intending on building the DML Tiger. However my step by step process will be far more involved just by way of the process that the workbench format at planetArmor offers me. There are something like 19 pages for the build I did on the 251/9 ausf. D from AFV Club
This will most likely contain reference, comments and corrections from others etc.

And rest assured Jim- I am not trying to hijack your "clients" . (If this was even a concern to you -which it most likely wasn't/isn't) I think the web is big enogh for all the armour websites.

It's all good and the more knowledge and experience out there for modellers to read to avoid pitfalls during a build- to me, is for the greater good.

jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
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Posted: Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 05:39 AM UTC
Mike, as anyone who would care to take the trouble to look at threads I have started will notice that I have repeatedly been posting links to items (on other sites) which may be of interest to people here. I find the implication rather groundless....

Simply put, I don't want to get into another slanging match on this thread as it's becoming tiresome when I expressed an opinion (backed up by facts) on Tamiya, and certain individuals chose to intrepret it as 'Heretical'.

We are always on the look out for different points of view in reviews. I will also go further, If James wishes to suit a review for publication on the site, it would be more than welcome.

I trust this makes my position clear, Jim

James, I wish you luck with the build, the moment it's posted, I'll link it in the forums. I was making no inference that you were poaching at all - on the contrary the more diverse opinions we get on a subject the better. Particularly in such important releases as these, cheers Jim
Teacher
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England - North West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 05:58 AM UTC
Now.....are y'all gonna kiss and make up? We're all into armour models, and we all know how easy it is to misinterpret something said on this thing. I want you all to know that I have a warm feeling spreading.........damn! I've spilt my tea again.


Vinnie
PanzerKarl
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Posted: Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 09:11 AM UTC
God you guys make me :-) As the scousers say:people from liverpool: calm down calm down.Any way if you were to build the AFV kit you need to add zimmerit as its a late Tiger, just gives you more of a bloody headache. so all kiss and make up.and vinnie have an other cupper or somethink stronger
gcdavidson
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 10:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text


To be honest the writing has been on the wall for Tamiya for a few years, it strikes me as strange that there is still a sprited defence of a company which treats Armor Modellers with complete contempt...



Hummer, JGSDF LAV, Challenger 2, M1A2, all in the last year or so... if that's contempt from Tamiya, then I'd hate to see how many kits they'd release if they really liked me! I'd never get them done!

That being said, I'll be buying the DML Tiger for sure, and I swore off German AFV's years ago
Shado1
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Tochigi-ken, Japan / 日本
Joined: July 24, 2003
KitMaker: 211 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 06:28 AM UTC
Hey, anybody hear anything about that new AFV Club Tiger?
I hear it's pretty nice...

This...umm...IS the new AFV Club Tiger thread...right??
Kinda hard to tell...
Easy_Co
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 07:18 AM UTC
With the amount of incoming, I hope these kits are worth it :-)