Not too clever Mr Tamiya...
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 12:25 AM UTC
Having just returned from the U.K. and having seen what Tamiya (the distributor?) is charging for the 1/48th armor kits, I must admit to being more than a touch perturbed....
Most of the kits are retailing at around 20 pounds which seems a touch counter-productive. As I was (initially at least) one of the 'doomsayers' ove this new range and later a 'convert', it looks as if they may be repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot. Bearing in mind the new DML kits are coming in at around 23 pounds a throw, it does look a little suicidal....Jim
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
Armorama: 4,258 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 12:33 AM UTC
Straight in as usual, good to have you back Jim
You were sorely missed, I hope your 'holiday' was a succes?
Being based in England, I agree with your price observations. It's often cheaper for me to buy something in America or even Canada even when I add the shipping cost...
. And the shops here complain that they don't get enough trade..
Cheers
Henk
The early bird may catch the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese...
England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: July 12, 2005
KitMaker: 757 posts
Armorama: 609 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 12:40 AM UTC
I don't know the average contents of a Tamiya kit but having got back into the hobby using DML which like you say retail about 23 pounds, I am demanding a LOT more bang for my buck.
They have raised the stakes in terms of PE parts, ally barrels and turned/formed ammunition rounds, width indicators etc.
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Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 12:47 AM UTC
Now Jim... Were you really expecting any less from Mr T??? I know you are really refering to the new 1/48 scale kits... but on a similar note (i.e. the low-quality high-price rip-off tactics of you-know-who) I see they are re-re-re-re-releasing the British 6pnd AT gun this month... needless to say this "classic" kit will come in at a premium price... after all... it is a "collectable"!
I just pray to Gaia that some smart AM company sees it and releases a PE set for it...
If not... well then I'm sitting on a small gold-mine -- i've got 3 of those kits...
Rudi
Beware the populist demagogues at the head of private armies
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 05, 2003
KitMaker: 4,924 posts
Armorama: 3,679 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 01:05 AM UTC
Jim, the prices for Tamiay Tigers at LuckyModel are around $20, which is not bad, and a lot cheaper than the latest Dragon Tigers at the same site. Which is as it should be, they are a lot older after all. The point is, are we sure it's Tamiya and not the distributor?
Vinnie
Ontario, Canada
Joined: June 12, 2005
KitMaker: 289 posts
Armorama: 286 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 02:12 AM UTC
Do not fret just yet. 1/48 is still being established with Tamiya leading in this venture. Prices for these kits in Asia are half what they are in Europe and N.America. Why not enjoy building some of the smaller kits to begin. Purchase a few kubels and kettenkrads (Hauler makes good inexpensive PE for these kits) and place them next to a Hetzer. Or, if you like Tigers, try the cheaper, but much lauded, SkyBow kits. Then wait till later in the autumn for Trumpeter's Sherman releases and SkyBow's Firefly.
Glenn
In some shops in Hong Kong a kubel costs roughly $7 US,$10 Canadian--the kits aren't expensive, shipping and distributing is.
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 02:39 AM UTC
Stateside, the Tamiya 1/48 scale armor runs about $20 give or take. Reasonably priced for what you get and a bargin compared to what a comparable old Bandai kit was pulling on eBay.
I picked up the T-34/76 on Hobby Link Japan for $13-14. I've bought all of the 1/48 scale armor kits (except the Bren carrier and Citroen) so far an have paid $22 for one at a local shop and got the StuG III for a whopping $7.77 on eBay.
Sounds more like an importer problem than a Tamiya induced price.
Nebraska, United States
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 1,430 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 03:33 AM UTC
I have to agree with Sabot on this one...I too have bought most all of the Tamiya 1/48th kits and the accessories as well..and on average ...15- to 20 usd is about right give or take a buck...
Personally, i really don't think that the true die hard fans of the 1/48th scale miniatures line are going to care that much about the price compared to other kits...If they want them..there going to buy them anyway..no matter the price.
Mary
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 3,856 posts
Armorama: 2,984 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 09:36 AM UTC
Here in the land of Oz it is mainly the mark up made by the 'Importer' plus customs duty and GST (a sales tax which is 10% at the moment) which make the kits so expensive at a retail level. This also applys to all the other brands as well.
Plus these 'Importers' also have a policy in most cases of only accepting orders of $500 or more in value from the shops. So in a lot of cases if you order a kit through the local hobby store you have to wait untilthey have an order of that value.
My only complaint about Tamiya is their belief that we are stupid and that we will never notice that the new release is 3 old kits in a new box with a heafty price tag on it.
cheers
Cliff
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 08:46 PM UTC
That is what I see so annoying with the Importer. I am more aware of the U.S. price of these kits than the U.K. price and as such, tis is liable to turn people off to 48th rather than encouraging them. I may be suspicious, but it seems as if they (thye impoters) have adopted a 'One for One' pricing policy, in other words, if they retail at $20 in the States, charge 20 pounds (or twenty Euros) - Ouch!...Jim
JPTRR
Managing Editor
#051
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
Armorama: 2,447 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 12:36 AM UTC
I, too, agree with Sabot and Tankysgal. I have the Tiger and Schwimmwagen and jerrycans. Tiger was about $25 including s/h from HLJ.
We must realize that the cost of making new tooling--I've been told >$20,000/sprue--and all the other nonesense in the global business world will jack the prices up for many countries. I heard the PRC dong is 140% of the Dollar, and rising. Will Trumpy remain economical for us?
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Michigan, United States
Joined: December 11, 2003
KitMaker: 5,409 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 12:57 AM UTC
I believe that once China unlinks it's yuan from the US dollar we will see a fluctuation in price. This is supposed to even out the currencies somewhat and let market forces decide on the exchange. Currently it is pegged to the US dollar. It will mean potentially that US companies will be able to get better value for their investments when bringing profits back from China. Conversely it also mean potentially higher priced goods from good comeing out of China.
You don't support the troops if you don't support the mission!
Kansas, United States
Joined: July 20, 2003
KitMaker: 727 posts
Armorama: 648 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 01:59 AM UTC
I have bought 2 of these 48th scale kits and paid 22 and 21 US dollars for them (Stug and Hetzer). None of the kits in the LHS here are more than 25 bucks so I would have to agree that something is fishy with the distributor in the UK. 20 pounds for one of those kits is excessive.
Rob Feehan
"vos can non redintegro bardus"
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 02:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
That is what I see so annoying with the Importer. I am more aware of the U.S. price of these kits than the U.K. price and as such, tis is liable to turn people off to 48th rather than encouraging them. I may be suspicious, but it seems as if they (thye impoters) have adopted a 'One for One' pricing policy, in other words, if they retail at $20 in the States, charge 20 pounds (or twenty Euros) - Ouch!...Jim
It may be turning off UK builders but in the US, they are more attractively priced. A new DML kit retails for around $36 at major hobby chains like Hobby Lobby or HobbyTown USA (new Tamiya 1/35 are normally $40+). The most I have seen a Tamiya 1/48 scale kit for in the US is $22 and change. Still a relative bargin when compared to 1/35 scale tanks.
US distributors can probably purchase the kits in greater lots than the UK distributors can. Buying in larger lots will reduce the price per kit.
Again, blaming Tamiya for this price variation is not correct. Blame Mr. UK Importer and the smaller modeling community for the price discrepancy.
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 04, 2003
KitMaker: 1,405 posts
Armorama: 656 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 03:20 AM UTC
Rob, I think the maybe is more definite, and I do blame the importer & Tamiya! After all who determines the importer?
Dragon went this way as well, their prices were way up, a change of importer and the kits are now more reasonably priced!
Tamiya’s 1/48 Tiger 1 Early Production is GBP19.99 (±USD36).
Tamiya’s new offerings (LeClerc, Challenger II etc) average at about GBP34(±USD60).
Dragon’s 1/35 Tiger 1 Initial (3 in 1), 88mm Flak 36 etc… are priced at a realistic GBP23.99 (±USD42)
I bought Tamiya’s 1:48 Kubelwagen and Kettenkraftrad and they are really nice kits, well worth the price etc… I’d really like to get more of the Tamiya 1/48 military kits, but in the UK they’re being priced way out of their range (just my 2 cents).
Maybe Jim is correct, including Shipping Tamiya’s 35262 Pz.Kfw. IV Ausf.J with Eduard PE costs ±GBP43 (±USD76) locally. Imported it costs ±USD44 (±GBP25).
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: June 12, 2005
KitMaker: 289 posts
Armorama: 286 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 03:31 AM UTC
Try the SkyBow Tigers. They are cheaper than Tamiya's Tiger and the level of detail is impressive. When the 1/35 scale fans see the zimmerit on the late-prodution kit there will be more converts to 1/48. For the super-detailers out there, there are several companies making Tiger crew figures, PE sets and decals.
Glenn
Michigan, United States
Joined: December 11, 2003
KitMaker: 5,409 posts
Armorama: 3,777 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 05:24 AM UTC
I think it's easier to ship to the US from Asia than to the UK. Intermodal shipping containers can be loaded in Asia and ship straight across the Pacific to California. Then the entire shipping containers can be offloaded and taken to any distribution point in the US by truck.
To get to the UK with huge intermodal shipping containers you would have to go south in the Pacific, weave your way around the Phillipines and Indonesia through the Indian Ocean around Africa and up the Atlantic to the UK. That is a much more difficult and costly trip. I suppose it could go through the Arabian Sea, Red Sea slowly through the Suez Canal and into the Med but with all the insecurities of the war it probably isn't the safest route at this time.
Flying and driving my truck is probably impractical across Asia, Middle East and Eastern Europe.
To me logistically it just seem more difficult to get containers to the UK from Asia.
You don't support the troops if you don't support the mission!
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 10:20 PM UTC
Of course in the final analysis, the only reasonable option open to me is to start buying the 48th scale kits from HK or the U.S... As I have to buy everything mail-order anyway, it's no great problem.
What does hack me off consderably, is that if the distributors were even slightly bright, they would continue to make money but stop doing real damage to the LHSs...
Having looked (again) at the prices from both
Sprue Brothers and
Lucky Model It is a sad state of affairs to see how the Brits are getting ripped-off...Jim
Grumpyoldman
Consigliere Florida, United States
Joined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 10:33 PM UTC
I think.... again I say I think part of the problem with the UK prices may have to do with all the import fees, taxes, customs etc, they seem to be rather high, and excessive to me.
One thing is the US classifies Models as Toys, and are therefore free of these taxes, duties etc. (although some distribitors deny this fact in order to justify higher prices)
Character is what you do when no one is looking.
Few things are harder to put up with than a good example.- Mark Twain
Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world.--Thomas Carlyle
Alabama, United States
Joined: September 18, 2003
KitMaker: 842 posts
Armorama: 607 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 10:39 PM UTC
Well, Jim, perhaps theres a problem with trade tarriffs between EU member nations and far-eastern countries.
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 10:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Well, Jim, perhaps theres a problem with trade tarriffs between EU member nations and far-eastern countries
Hmm, if one looks at the differentials in prices between Consumer electronics in the U.K. and here in Spain, the prices are considerably lower here for the same products. The trade tariffs are undoubtedly a factor as are localized taxes. However, there is an undoubted abuse by the importers who have always added an unreasonable 'cut'to the basic price...Ji
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 05, 2003
KitMaker: 4,924 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 11:24 PM UTC
The British public (I know several of them
) are being robbed blind by their own government everyday. We have allowed ourselves over the years to be charged higher and higher prices for almost everything. In short, we allow ourselves to be shafted. Think of what we pay for gasoline, £4 a gallon. That's over $7 a gallon or 5.8 Euros. It would be interesting to know what other people pay around the world.
Vinnie
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 11:28 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The British public (I know several of them ) are being robbed blind by their own government everyday. We have allowed ourselves over the years to be charged higher and higher prices for almost everything. In short, we allow ourselves to be shafted. Think of what we pay for gasoline, £4 a gallon. That's over $7 a gallon or 5.8 Euros. It would be interesting to know what other people pay around the world.
Vinnie
I thought that's how they supported all the ppl on the dole???
Beware the populist demagogues at the head of private armies
Michigan, United States
Joined: December 11, 2003
KitMaker: 5,409 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 01:09 AM UTC
Gas prices around my area are obscene at $2.30US. If you pay $7.00US in the UK that would cause in insurrection here==) Our national minimum wage is only $5.35/hr.
You don't support the troops if you don't support the mission!
#026
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,359 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 01:25 AM UTC
I've found that you can get all of these kits at a bargain if I wait a while for one of the mail order companies to put them on sale and/or pre-order them.
I got the DML Tiger I Early from Greatmodels for $24.99 when i preordered it!
I got the DML Flak 88 for $25.00 by pre-ordering it from the same company!
I just pre-ordered the new Italeri Autoblinda for 24.40!
Great Models constantly has excellent sales on all of the new stuff from all of the major manufacturers!
http://www.greatmodels.comSquadron mail order also has tons of sales each month.
It's just a matter of waiting and shopping for the right price.
I know that we all want the newest and"bestest" kits and we want them right away. But, I'll bet that most of us have enough kits to last us for at least a year, and we could afford to wait for a good deal.
Just my two cents!
Bodeen
Bodeen
What a long strange trip it's been!
