Opportunism at its most blatant?
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 05:56 AM UTC
I discovered this little 'gem' on the pages of HobbyEasy's excellent on-line store. Now is it my imagination, or has Tamiya
REALLY lost the plot with this? A metal gun barrel and a set of metal tracks for the KV - yours for only $36.54 (at excellent, cheap, HK prices
)
Now, the questions are abounding...
1) Do they (Tamiya) honestly think that selling a seperate track/barrel set is enough to save the 20 + year old Tamiya KVs?
2) Wouldn't it have made sense to completely re-do their elderly KVs rather than selling replacement items?
3) Just how much are these going to cost when they become available in LHSs in Europe and the States?
4) Do Tamiya actually keep a finger on the pulse of the modelling community?
Here are the images:...Jim
Michigan, United States
Joined: October 28, 2002
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:04 AM UTC
The tracks are made in Hungary. Fruilmodelismo. OK.
I'm generally one who will stand to defend Tamiya against unfair bashing. I'll step aside and let Tamiya take its knocks for this one. This is really a dopey move!!!
Roy Chow
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:07 AM UTC
Roy, this is my point - nothing against the idea of the tracks, on the contrary, having built several Tamiya KVs, there is a need for them. Have Tamiya now entered the AM market? ...Oh dear...Jim
United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:25 AM UTC
I am suprised that Tamiya is doing something like this for a kit that's been around as long as the KV series You can probably buy a Trumpeter KV kit for cheaper than this AM parts from Tamiya
To fight the hordes,singing and crying,Valhalla I am coming
Singapore / 新加坡
Joined: August 03, 2005
KitMaker: 2,709 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:30 AM UTC
Its just marketing...plain and simple. You make someone buy the original kit and if they really wanted it look pretty, they will fork out the extra for this.
Its not always about the love of the hobby im afraid.
Jeremy Wee
"A man is incomplete until he is married. After that, he is finished.."
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Its just marketing...plain and simple. You make someone buy the original kit and if they really wanted it look pretty, they will fork out the extra for this.
Can we expect the following items?:
1) New, Resin hull
2) New, Resin running gear
3) New Replacement Turret
4) Replacement (non-motorized) lower hull
This is just silly....Jim :-)
Vaasa, Finland
Joined: August 07, 2002
KitMaker: 424 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:35 AM UTC
If this is being sold separately, then they're clearly capitalizing on product overlap w/ Trumpeter - in essence making money off of Trumpeter's back.
Simply put, if you buy any vintage of KV kit (Eastern Express, Tamiya, or Trumpeter), Tamiya is hoping to make a few bucks off of your buy with these.
I wouldn't be surprised to see these pop up for other kits where Tamiya has overlap w/ others.
Also, Tamiya has been in the AM segment for quite a while - look up their grille sets, ammo sets, etc.
Mika
"I must, now, practice the noble craft of warfare"
- Rottenfuhrer Kopke
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Also, Tamiya has been in the AM segment for quite a while - look up their grille sets, ammo sets, etc.
...Including MANY items which should have been included in the first place...Jim
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 19, 2003
KitMaker: 641 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:46 AM UTC
Exactly, Jim...just look at the new Subaru Imprezza Rally car kit, gee, and look, you can buy the "Upgrade" PE set...as a nice separate item. I did this, bought the upgrade set for the new Impul 350Z JTCC car, and yet, when I bought the Special Edition version of the Xanavi Nismo GTR Car kit, the PE fret was included...same thing for the grills on AFV's, I think they should just start packaging them in the kit. DML looks like they've got the right idea. BUT, I'm stil a big T fan, only been armour modelling for a few short years, and there's alot of their kits I don't have....yet. :-)
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:50 AM UTC
I would 'Guesstimate' that when these reach (with the Tamiya packaging) the outside markets, the price will be at least $50+...Jim
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: January 10, 2003
KitMaker: 426 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:52 AM UTC
Am I missing something????
I mean, you get assembled metal tracks and an aluminum gun barrel for less than $40.00???
A box of Fruil tracks at my LHS is $40 and those are unassembled.. Add on to that an aluminum gun barrel for $10.. Or is it that the kit is anciant and they are just now putting out new stuff for when they should be re-doing the whole kit????
I don't know (over my head).. could someone give me a clue????
Is it something along the lines of re-issuing the Tiger one with the tracks and barrel when it was cheaper to buy them seperately?????
"Life is way too short to be unhappy"
Harry
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United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 3,172 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Am I missing something????
I mean, you get assembled metal tracks and an aluminum gun barrel for less thatn $40.00???
A box of Fruil tracks at my LHS is $40 and those are unassembled.. Add on to that an aluminum gun barrel for $10.. Or is it that the kit is anciant and they are just now putting out new stuff for when they should be re-doing the whole kit????
I don't know.. could someone give me a clue????
I could see Tamiya doing something like this for their newer kits Not on a kit like this
To fight the hordes,singing and crying,Valhalla I am coming
Colorado, United States
Joined: February 01, 2003
KitMaker: 5,221 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 07:01 AM UTC
I'm defending or bashing Tamiya but I don't have a big problem with this, except to say that Tamiya certainly does NOT have their finger on the modelers pulse any longer. While I think they should have completely redone their kit rather than just come out with a AM offering for it, if you have the older kit, and you think this is good value, fine. Where I do draw the line with them is when they bring out a new kit, like their new French main battle tank, and release an "upgrade" kit for it that is required to build the kit as the instructions show. How do they possibly hope to compete now days doing that? If all they want to do is to continue to sell their old stuff, and come out with AM kits like these tracks, they'll still sell some things, but they might as well figure to get out of 1/35 plastic in the next few years.
Rodger
If I'd had known grand kids were so much fun I'd have had them first.
Ask me about my Grand Son!
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 07:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm defending or bashing Tamiya but I don't have a big problem with this, except to say that Tamiya certainly does NOT have their finger on the modelers pulse any longer. While I think they should have completely redone their kit rather than just come out with a AM offering for it, if you have the older kit, and you think this is good value, fine. Where I do draw the line with them is when they bring out a new kit, like their new French main battle tank, and release an "upgrade" kit for it that is required to build the kit as the instructions show. How do they possibly hope to compete now days doing that? If all they want to do is to continue to sell their old stuff, and come out with AM kits like these tracks, they'll still sell some things, but they might as well figure to get out of 1/35 plastic in the next few years.
I think retooling their old KV series would have been a waste. The Trumpeter one is good enough to last us until the next level of model manufacturing is developed. They should focus on producing new kits in subjects that need to be redone (M3 halftrack).
I do think they are trying capitalize on the buzz created by the Trumpeter kit. This stunt is aimed at the folks who are either buying the old KVs cheap on eBay or have one in the stash. Chuck the Fruil tracks and a JR barrel into a 'Tamiya' box and it is instant profit. Too bad they didn't add a small Eduard PE fret to the set.
I agree with Rodger that their greed is apparent when they continue to put out modern tooled kits but then have a small PE set or turned brass ammo available separately. They should get off the dime and include these with the base kit.
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 09:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I mean, you get assembled metal tracks and an aluminum gun barrel for less than $40.00??
Well yes, you do, if you buy it from HK or Japan (plus postage) When it reaches your local hobby store.. A slightly different price-tag...
Quoted Text
Is it something along the lines of re-issuing the Tiger one with the tracks and barrel when it was cheaper to buy them seperately?????
Something like that, yes. I assume you
HAVE seen the price-tag on the 'Special Editon' Tiger I? $120 or so?...Jim
California, United States
Joined: March 09, 2003
KitMaker: 12 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 09:47 AM UTC
Why is Tamiya doing this? The 1/35th market is currently in its golden age and Tamiya is deliberately marginalizing itself. Does it have some kinda fan base where it can draw perpetual support and purchases from? Wasn't it that Tamiya has a very BIG presence in Shizouka city and actually determines who gets to attend the big annual hobby trade show every year?
Okay enough questions. I just think that Tamiya took such a big thrashing from the likes of DML, Trumpeter, AFV Club and even Italeri that it no longer has any cohesive business strategy for 1/35th scale kits. It used to be (even just last year) that Tamiya is the big fish and all the rest plays catch-up. Now it suddenly finds itself under attack from all angles with competition being cheaper, better and more popular. Kinda like the Big Three auto-makers facing Nissan, Honda, Toyota for the first time. It needs to awake from its complacency soon or just leave the market due to the competition.
I am just disappointed, Tamiya was the company that brought me back into plastic modelling. I remember their King Tiger kit beckoning for my pocket money. Their latest attempt to rehash an ancient kit is just a bad idea.
Oh well, you will never know you haven fallen until you are sitting in the dirt and staring up at the sky.
-=Yc. Wang=-
Sunnyvale, CA
USA
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 09:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Its just marketing...plain and simple.
Yes it’s marketing in its dirtiest form.
I did not make any model for 15? years and came back to the hobby about a year ago. It struck me that I could find many of the same models on the market as back in the eighties, in many cases without any change but the picture on the box.
And I noticed the enormous development of the aftermarket. In some cases this aftermarket has real added value where e.g. parts are made to transform a standard Sherman into a rare model.
But in many cases the aftermarket provides parts which could as well be included in the original kit at almost no extra cost. I do not like paying 50 EUR for a 1/48 airplane kit, another 15 for a better detailed ejection seat, another 10 for a better detailed exhaust, wheel bays,...
This is just getting ridiculous!
The mission: Beat the stash.
Almost conquered: MIG-29, Blackhawk, Skyray, Skyraider, fouga
Main battle:Demon, Skyhawk, F-14, CH-53
Stash reserve:Blackhawk, CH-46, 47 en 53; SU-7, Eurofighter, mohawk, hellcat, F-16D, 6x Fouga Magister, Voodoo
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 09:41 PM UTC
This may (for some at least) seem a touch 'heretical' but I really must say I don't like Friuls too much and I honestly prefer the new DML tracks....
What really gets up my nose, is that they (Tamiya)assume they are doing us a favour by jumping on Trumpeter's bandwagon. Trump did their research and have released a series of kits which many of us us have been waiting for, for years. No, I don't have to by them,but I find it sad that Tamiya seems to be getting advised by people who have no understanding of today's market...Jim
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,186 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 09:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
One of these days the marketing divisons of large companies are gonna start asking people what they really need, not what the marketing people can sell them until that day arrives
Forget it, this wiull never happen because marketing departments are made out of "professional" sales people who only count money, and have in most cases no affinity with the product itself.
If we want changes then we need to support (read buy) the products of the innovating companies.
The mission: Beat the stash.
Almost conquered: MIG-29, Blackhawk, Skyray, Skyraider, fouga
Main battle:Demon, Skyhawk, F-14, CH-53
Stash reserve:Blackhawk, CH-46, 47 en 53; SU-7, Eurofighter, mohawk, hellcat, F-16D, 6x Fouga Magister, Voodoo
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 30, 2004
KitMaker: 523 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 10:05 PM UTC
HI
Good Q but I would venture to say that Tamiya has a huge cult following and that if they release something, there are those loyal dedicated buyers that would get it.
Call it greed or maybe it is an honest attempt on their part.
Tom
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 10:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Good Q but I would venture to say that Tamiya has a huge cult following and that if they release something, there are those loyal dedicated buyers that would get it.
A very interesting point. However, I would suggest that their status has been severely damaged in the last year or two. Evidence of that? Well, not conclusive, but here on the site, it used to be that any News Story on Tamiya would get literally thousands of 'hits' in just a few days. Recently (within minutes) I posted two stories, one on AFV Club, the other on Tamiya. The former rapidly overtook the Tamiya story in 'hits' - a trend I have been noticing for a while now. It does (sadly) indicate that Tamiya's star has 'waned' somewhat and hat modellers are no longer seeing them as a major-leaguer...Jim
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: December 05, 2003
KitMaker: 199 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 12:57 AM UTC
Guys, what's the problem? When Dragon makes another set of german infatry and some people are disappointed usual answer is: they do it because german sells. Now Tamiya released metal tracks and it's the same situation - many are not interested but others will buy it. Nobody is forced to buy this set or ancient KV so what we are talking about?
Piotr
Singapore / 新加坡
Joined: August 03, 2005
KitMaker: 2,709 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 01:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Guys, what's the problem? When Dragon makes another set of german infatry and some people are disappointed usual answer is: they do it because german sells. Now Tamiya released metal tracks and it's the same situation - many are not interested but others will buy it. Nobody is forced to buy this set or ancient KV so what we are talking about?
Piotr
I believe the main focus on the debate is that you would have to settle for second best with the original kit and fork out more in order to get the best. From a consumer's perspective, you always want to get the best in one package....not buy bits and pieces here and there in order to get the best quality.
I for one agree with the original comment made that Tamiya should have packaged them together as their products are way over priced as it is.
Jeremy Wee
"A man is incomplete until he is married. After that, he is finished.."
Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: March 18, 2003
KitMaker: 263 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 02:23 AM UTC
Things link this made me raging in the past. Meanwhile, to avoid heart attacks, i try to ignore those behavior and let it be. :-) The market will correct everything. Bigger companies like Daimler-Chrysler or IBM experienced this. May be that Tamiya earnes enought money with there RC-Section and has no further interest in scale-modelling. Otherwise Tamiya will learn their lessons too. Yet there is no real need to buy Tamiya. The competitors are setting the standarts now.
Let us support them and see
Happy modelling
Harald
