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Armor/AFV: AA/AT/Artillery
For discussions about artillery and anti-aircraft or anti-tank guns.
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M110A2
Henk
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Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 12:09 AM UTC
Hi all,

A few pic's of an 'in between' commission I'm nearly done with.
A fitter at the truckdealership which maintains our trucks is a Military Vehicle Preservation entuasiast, and amongst other things (such as a Centurion... ) he owns a M110A2 SPG. He asked me if I could built him a model, so here we are..
The model is the Revell kit, OOB, finished in the camouflage of his own vehicle (Doh..) Left to do now is the name on the side, registration no. plate, flags etc, than a light wash and little drybrush to bring out the details. No heavy weathering, as his vehicle doesn't 'get out much' other than regular shows. I'll be mounting it on a base with the spade dug in a mount of earth, as in the fireing position. He'll supply an Artillery capbadge to mount on the base aswel.
I have read about the kit tracks being wrong, but he recons that they are the same as on his vehicle, and is happy with them. They will be finished in a rather rusty look, as his vehicle is stored outside on a lowloader (Scammel, yes..) and the tracks are rusty. That'll be the only real weathering I'll be doing on this one.







Tonight I'll finish the lettering and etc, and hope to be able to finish the tracks. It will have a 203mm shell on the loading tray aswel.

Cheers
Henk
HeavyArty
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Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 12:18 AM UTC
Looks good so far. Good job. As to the tracks, they are only wrong in the Revell M110A2 German version. The Revell rebox of the standard, US M110A2 has the correct tracks.
Henk
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Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 12:38 AM UTC
Thanks Gino,

I just spoke to him, and I have it sat next to a Academy Warrior ( 13201, the Iraq 2003 version but that's another story) and he commented that they look out of scale? He recons that his M110 should 'Dwarf' (his words :-) ) the Warrior. I think there's a bit of 'mine's bigger than yours ' syndrome going on, but are either of these much out of scale?

Cheers
Henk
steve-o
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Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 01:32 AM UTC
Is this the same kit that Italeri sells?

And who produced it 1st?

Steve
matt
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Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 01:50 AM UTC
RoG and Italeri share some of the molds........
Sabot
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Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 02:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Is this the same kit that Italeri sells?

And who produced it 1st?

Steve
The Italeri molds date back to the late 80s when the kit was first issued as the M107 Mad Dog 175mm SPG. Revell tends to rebox Italeri kits (others too) that are either used by the Bundeswehr (W.German Army) or were in use by NATO forces stationed in Germany.

Revell has done a few 1/35 scale modern German armor models that are original like the Luchs, Fuchs, Unimog, Marder 1A3, PzHbtz2000, but generally just rebox someone else's kits with new bits and decals.
thathaway3
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Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 03:53 AM UTC
Henk, did you notice any problems with the hydraulic cylinders being too long? I did a regular M110 short tube from the Italeri kit some time ago, and I wound up having to actually do quite a bit of work on the length of the strut (cutting it down some) and the amount of the cylinder available in which it travels (making that "longer"), because the OOB parts did not let the strut collapse enough for the spade to raise as high as the real vehicle.

Anybody else notice that??

Tom
Henk
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Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 05:28 AM UTC
Tom,

I glued the spade in the lowered position, as that's what he requested. Oddly enough he want's the barrel and platform left movable, which I would have glued in position as those parts look a bit fragile to me.. but he, the customer is always right. Frequently misinformed or mistaken, but always right..

I did testfit the spade in the upright position, and don't think there would be a fit problem with this kit.
Actualy the kit went together rather well. Compering it with the real thing shows it to be an accurate model. Some detail on the gun craddle is simplyfied/ omitted, but that is to be expected. The only major gripe is the seat on the right side of the gun platform ( for the crew member who turns the platform). The instructions (rather face as to the exact position) and the mounting position of the parts, let you fix it facing slightly rearfacing, which means that the turn handle is out of reach of him. According to my client this chair should face forward, like the one on the left ( for the gun layer). The mounting bracket makes this impossible, unless you 'swivel' the chair forward independently. This can't be done without cutting and altering the kit parts.

But on the whole it's a nice kit which I would happily recommend to those wishing to build a kickbottom artillery piece. Not many 203mm SPG's (or should that be Naval Gun) out there .

Cheers
Henk
thathaway3
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 01:45 AM UTC
Yeah, I served in two different units equipped with the 8", a National Guard unit in the late 70s which still had the old M110 short tube and an Army Reserve Unit in the early 90s which had the M110A2. I was lucky enough to buy two of the Verlinden M110A2 conversion kits for the two additional kits I have in my stash which are planned for the later unit. Someday.

The problem that I recall was that it seemed that when raising the spade, the kit parts prevented it from going as far up as I remember seeing spades when the howitzer was travelling. This was due to the fact that the "collapsed length" of the cylinder was too long to allow the spade to go up all the way. So I had to do some "creative modification" to make it work properly.

There is no doubt the MLRS which replaced the 8" as the General Support Artillery for the Army is a better weapon in every respect, but that 8" was extremely accurate!

Tom
Jacques
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Posted: Friday, December 16, 2005 - 08:56 PM UTC
No way the MLRS is a better weapon than the 8"...while it may be somewhat more versitile, I loved the precision of the 8". (I was a FO) MLRS just makes too big of a mess...good for large scale warfare, useless in precision strikes on todays battlefield.

As for the kit, I built the newer M110A2 kit from Italeri and the rear spade seems to raise properly...
HeavyArty
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Posted: Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 12:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

No way the MLRS is a better weapon than the 8"...while it may be somewhat more versitile, I loved the precision of the 8". (I was a FO) MLRS just makes too big of a mess...good for large scale warfare, useless in precision strikes on todays battlefield.


Sorry, have to disagree. The new, Guided MLRS Rockets being used in OIF can hit within 7-10 inches of the target grid every time. Comes in an HE warhead too. It is amazing what kind of precision and accuracy it has. Blows away the old 8".
Jacques
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Posted: Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 06:49 AM UTC
Ok Gino, I will give you that...there were no precision munitions back when they traded out the M110A2's for supposed MLRS. While we trained in the FO section to use the MLRS (mid 1990's timeframe) the powers that be ended up giving the units...drumroll....M198 155mm TOWED howitzers. Yeesh.

So now there is NO MLRS and NO M110A2's. Sigh.

Anyhow, yes, I can see the flexability of the MLRS system...although I am sure that a MLRS guided round is far more expensive than a 8" shell. DO those precision MLRS rounds require lasing? I would imagine they need more than a set of 8 (10M grid) or 10 (1M grid) digit grid coordinates to be that precise...
13M201182
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Posted: Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 07:29 AM UTC
AHH,,,, A subject near and dear to my heart. I crewed both the M110A2, back in the days when we were Nuke capable too, and the M270. I'll take a MLRS every time and twice on Sunday! Both systems were worthy of being in the inventory. Now the M270 has a little brother, the HIMARS. It carries just 1 pod, but can shoot all the munitions as it's big brother. I guess I can get over the fact it doesn't have tracks!

as always STEEL ON TARGET!!!!!!!!!!

Henk
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Posted: Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 09:29 AM UTC
I hope you don't mind if I interupt your most interesting discussion on which is the best Artillery piece... :-) :-)

Kidding, glad to see that my model stirs some emotions and awakens some memories..

Anyway, I managed to make some progress, inbetween having to go and drive a bl&&&&d* truck..
Started with the base, added the model, and next is painting the ground work and touching up the M110.







Cheers
Henk
TankCarl
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Posted: Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 10:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

he owns a M110A2 SPG.


Whiskey
Tango
Foxtrot??????????
How the Hotel Echo double hockey sticks could he get one??????????????

(++) (++)
Henk
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Posted: Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 11:04 AM UTC
I presume he bought it, possibly from a Army Surplus Dealer...
You be supprised what you can buy over here, he's just bought a Centurion... Although that one has the barrel plugged .

Henk
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Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 12:26 AM UTC
Oh, by the way, does anybody know the colour and markings for the projectiles?

Cheers
Henk
HeavyArty
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Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 07:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Oh, by the way, does anybody know the colour and markings for the projectiles?

Cheers
Henk


HE rounds are dark green with yellow stenciling and 4 small squares, horizontally near the top. Smoke rounds are pale green with black stenciling. I believe Beehive rounds were flat black with yellow stenciling. Fuze is steel, brass, or aluminum, depending on type. Lifting eyes, when fuzes are not attached, are steel or painted dark green. If you check out the AFV Club 155mm and 203mm rounds set, they show painted rounds and include stencil decals for them.

Here is a shot of the AFV Club box for some details.


A note, the brass rotating band around the base usually has a metal cover to protect it and is only removed just before firing. It is not usually off when in transit.


Quoted Text

Do those precision MLRS rounds require lasing? I would imagine they need more than a set of 8 (10M grid) or 10 (1M grid) digit grid coordinates to be that precise...


No lasers. They have inertial and GPS guidance. All you need is a 10-digit grid and they go exactly where you tell them. There are upgrades in the works that will make them even more accurate and able to deliver different payloads as well. A similar system has been developed for 155mm projectiles and is in the works for 105mm too.
Henk
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Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 08:08 AM UTC
Thanks Gino, that was just what I was after. The kit comes with 4 rounds, two with fuzes and two with lifting eyes. I'll only be using one, fused and ready on the loading tray.


I managed to get it all together and about done tonight..
Tomorrow I'll finish some little details, touch up a few spots and probably give the ground work another light drybrush. I finally managed to beat the tracks into submission... . They are accurate, but made of a similar matter that they make teenagers from..... . I'm sure there is a smell of sulpher in the air at the Revell design lab... I'll post some pic's tomorrow.

Cheers
Henk
Henk
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Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 09:57 AM UTC
Here's some pic's, as you can see the tracks need to be finished.


The open space on the left is where the Artillery badge will go, and there will probably a small name plate on the right.


The tracks have finally accepted who is in charge....


Spade digging in. Note to self, don't forget to paint the tools...

More pic's can be seen in my gallery .

Cheers
Henk
Jacques
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Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 08:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Do those precision MLRS rounds require lasing? I would imagine they need more than a set of 8 (10M grid) or 10 (1M grid) digit grid coordinates to be that precise...



Quoted Text

No lasers. They have inertial and GPS guidance. All you need is a 10-digit grid and they go exactly where you tell them. There are upgrades in the works that will make them even more accurate and able to deliver different payloads as well. A similar system has been developed for 155mm projectiles and is in the works for 105mm too.


That sounds really darn cool...makes me want to pick up my Bino's and map and head over to Camp Ripley again...(ok, maybe not...) :-)

The idea of guided shells (requiring only a 10 digit grid too boot...GREAT!) is something that has been lobbied for as long as I can remember. Definate payoff from OIF...systems that were too much $$$ before are now getting into production to do some good. It just boggles my mind how usefull something like a GPS guided 105mm could be in some of those tight corners in urban terrain.

'Course now I feel like a total idoit...nothing new! I still like the M110 over the MLRS though, but for different reasons...
thathaway3
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Posted: Monday, December 19, 2005 - 01:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

AHH,,,, A subject near and dear to my heart. I crewed both the M110A2, back in the days when we were Nuke capable too, and the M270.


Randy, noticing your signature block, I thought you'd appreciate following. I was in B Btry from 1977 - 1978.
Sheldon Johnson was my BC. And when I was XO of 4/20 FA in Lansing, Jim Sigmund was my S-3. You in the Metro Area?

Tom

jRatz
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Posted: Monday, December 19, 2005 - 07:29 AM UTC
A question, gentlemen.

I have the M110A2 kit, but would rather build an earlier version, sans muzzle-brake.

Could I just drop in the tube from an AFV Club 8in, or are there other significant changes ??

Thanks,
John
HeavyArty
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Posted: Monday, December 19, 2005 - 07:56 AM UTC

Henk,
She is coming out looking great. Good job.



Quoted Text

I have the M110A2 kit, but would rather build an earlier version, sans muzzle-brake.

Could I just drop in the tube from an AFV Club 8in, or are there other significant changes ??


That would work to make an M110 or M110A1 version as served in Vietnam. All other canges were internal upgrades to the engine, transmission, and hydraulics.
Henk
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Posted: Monday, December 19, 2005 - 05:49 PM UTC
Thanks Gino, I'm pleased with it, and more importantly, so is the new owner. He popped in last night to have a peak, and is well chuffed. All left now is adding the collar badge and do the markings on the shell. He also dragged a rather large box along... one of his friends ( also a militairy vehicle preservationist) had a Dragon Wagon (with the trailer) in the cupboard, and would I be interested in building it?? Would I..? .


Cheers
Henk
 _GOTOTOP