Hello Gents,

I've been wanting to do a Saving Private Ryan Dio since the movie came out. I finally began a few months ago when I got the AFV Clubs Late Tiger 1. The AFV Club Tiger has a working suspention system so I wanted to do the scene where Miller, Ryan and Ryben(thanks alan) are startled as the Tiger appears full speed over a mound of Rubble.

My Problem..... I made the base.....




Then I used the Verlinden technique of painting the base in a black sand and umber mix. which is very dark.
I have a copy of the SPR Movie book which has full page colour stills from the set and it shows the ground being covered in rocks and very uniform in colour..... I've done this....




Apart from rushing the figure paint.... I'm not happy with the figures so feel free to Crit them all you want.... I'm hopeless with US uniforms.
I want to know how to fix the ground work colour. It's had washes in raw umber, a brown pastel wash, drybrushed with multiple shades of khaki drill 72 and it still looks wrong, The rubble bricks and door have been picked out in there colours and there are some grey cobblestones here and there but in the flesh it looks wrong...... Help!!!!!!! before I go nuts.

It's not finished so don't mention the tracks, with are Academy individual links that are taking some time as the tiger is going over some very rough ground and I'm doing stages so the tracks are rock solid before I paint and weather them.

Thanks

Gaz

I have no idea what you are talking about. I think it looks fantastic. However for a better review maybe some more overview shots so that we can see all the various colors of the whole scene

Gaz this looks fantastic!
Perhaps the photos light settings are cancelling out the bad colours you mention because to me the rubble and entire dio looks stunning.
Can't commment on the figs as they are rather blurry in the pics - more pic's perhaps outside so we see the colour more vibrantly?
Cheers

One more thing. Ryan was a paratrooper and it does not appear any of the three is dressed in a paratrooper's gear although the really blurred kneeling guy in the last pic might be a para.

I think it looks good! However, I think the figure composition could be improved, with a little more sense of action between them. Also, the wash you applied to the tiger isn't present on the back of the wheels.

Thanks guys,

I've just taken some more photo's:

David, Good pickup on the back of the wheels...I'll fix that. As to the figures I've been probable to true to the movie, it's from a pause I did in the DVD, Ryan freezes when the tiger crests the rubble Ryben is in full flight with his BAR, and Miller turns and grabs Ryan by the arm, My Miller figure is mid turn.

Alan, The figures are two from the Dragon 29th infantry dday set and there are two paras from the Dragon Operation Varsity set, I know this is later in the war but the movie photo book I've got has them very similar and that is also the painting problem I had with the figure as in the stills from that scene the uniforms are very close in colour and the sutble difference has be hard to reproduce.

To the shots, these will show it off for what I'm taking about....






I think it may have been the raw umber wash is a bit glossy, it's hard for me to finger the problem.

Don't get me wrong I'm pretty happy with the tiger and when she's finished I'll be really happy, and the building with the Juden sign is good, I just need to fix the groundwork and the figures.

Gaz

I still think you need to post some overall shots from different angles and less close ups. I still don't understand what you see is a problem. I think it looks great. I can't see the second para. Where is he hiding??

One more thing. Karpazo was played by Vin Diesel who got sniped earlier. The BAR gunner was Ryben(sp)

Alan,

My Problem is with the way the ground looks and it doesn't look too bad in the different angle overall shots, The problem area is in the first photo of the second set, the open area behind the running soldier where the ammo crate is. The other Para is in the workshop building I haven't built the second floor yet so no photo til then.

I'm kind of scared to do a sand wash as I think in may completely destroy it.

I guess you have to see it first person, It's glossy in places and a little uniform in others it just doesn't look like real ground. And I find that at this website some people can find the flaws straight way, look at David and the lack of wash on the back of the road wheel. Good spotting thank you. But you guys don't see the groundwork problem then maybe I've just been freaking out about this dio ever since I did the VP style blackish base coat.

I'll post some others soon, but I got to go to work soon.

Gaz

I think it looks fine. Remember that when these buildings were bombed, there was tons of dust. Maybe try adding some more of this, but I wouldn't try to have too much contrast. The groundwork looks good as it is. Continue the work on the figures, but they don't look too bad either. Just be happy that you are building something. "Q"

I think it looks pretty damn good and was hard to find much wrong with it. I would definitely recommend ading more figures to the dio so that there are many focal points and that the viewers eyes dont only concentrate on the 3 main figures. As i recalled that scene, there were a few para troopers on the sides of those building not to mention the kruts behind the Tiger.

Also i cant really make it out from the photos but do the figures have their respective rank insignias on their helmets?

Jazza is right the lieutenant had the 2 fadded markings on his helmet, that might be whats missing.

What Im seeing is that it does appear to be kind of glossy in those shots. Have you considered doing some pastel chalk rubs to dull that out? You might also be able to better control your use of certain colors in certain places. If you are happy with the colors, but not the finish, try a matte clear coat. All this said, there should also be a considerable amount of dust on the rubble.

Anyway, regardless of all this advice, your scene looks fantastic. You should be proud of it.

Well - its' a very nicely done diorama. As mentioned I'd touch up the bottom of the Tigers tracks and the backs of the road wheels (if not done already).

The groundwork after much review is: yes a touch glossy here and there (could be the photos, could be the lighting). Take it outside and photograph it/view it.
The groundwork looks 'flat' to me, very one dimentional. I would add some very rich dark spot washes here and there to deepen the creases. Then a few (not a lot) of drybrush highlights. This is really only in the area in front of the tank.

A very good project.

I hate to criticise someone's work when it is better than mine. But, they were in one heck of a fight over a period of time. Their clothes were dirty. They were covered in dust. That would blend the figures into the base better.

Sealhead

I think it looks really good. The groundwork, the building and the Tiger looks quite good. I'll have to agree with Sealhead regarding the figures: Make them more dusty. A little tip that I use from time to time: Get some clay from your flowershop, dry it and smash it to bits. You'll get a lot of rock-looking shapes and a lot of clay-powder you can add as some kind of weathering. Just a tip.

Well, still it looks good.

Gary,
I've looked at all the photos, & I still don't get it - what don't you like about it? I think it's fantastic! The only suggestion I would make is that a careful "dusting", perhaps with an airbrush with a light earthy colour in, would just tie it all together?

Thank you slodder,

The last set of photo's were taken outside but in shade, I live in the tropics and direct sun this time of year is far to harsh for photo's. But your right I might try a pastel wash after a coat of matt varnish.

As to the figures, Thank you, I am not happy with them, I haven't finished the shoulder patches, the white stripe on the back of the helmets, the spade emblem on the Ryans helmet. Because I used the 29th INF set I will also remodel the Ranger's uniforms to coverup the amount of straps that adorn these 29th Inf. figures.

The tracks on the Tiger are not even finished so they will be painted and weathered when complete.

Thank you for the suggestion of some German para's, I've just looked at the scene from the movie again and in the shot i'm going for there are three running in a cloud of dust in the background..... I'll have to find some now!.

As to those who can't see my problem.....It's like writer's block I've been working on this dio for about two months and nothing I've done seems write. In the Tiger paint job I tried Vallajo paint for the first time and used the wrong yellow in the Panzer colour set I got.
While painting the figures I had trouble matching the Para uniform colour, I've painted the base about six times so far and am still not happy. I had lost confidence in my ability..... it happens, Have a look at my gallery see my other work and maybe you'll see the difference and what I'm getting at.

In the meantime I'm going to have a and see what happens, sitmulating conversation with your peers can snap you out of it and slodder has done that for me..... Thank you.

http://photos.kitmaker.net/showgallery.php/ppuser/12353/cat/500

Looks nice so far. Maybe you'll find Ian Hill's feature on PlanetArmor interesting.

http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1539

Ok, what do i see other than this will be a very good diorama.

What i see is that your brick wall and bigger debris have to much a grey touch. I think when you are going back to keep them more in the red tones you will have a greater colour variety for the whole dio .
Even your pieces of wood are to grey. Go in the faded Sand or green colours to ad even more variety.
Then your groundwork will live on its own and you will notice better the shades you did with the rubble.


Good Luck

Claude

I agree that the dio looks fantastic and I like the ground work very much – its alive and interesting and the detail level is very high.
There is one problem that I detect – ad weird as it may sound, on that scene, the tiger had RUSSIAN tracks installed!
You can clearly see it on this picture from the movie:
http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/1589/tiger07large1no.jpg

I wonder if that’s a mistake or if those kinds of tracks could have been found on German tanks, especially on the west...

The tank in the movie is a Russian tank built up to look like a tiger.
I’ld go with a real tiger in the dio without trying to recreate the converted tank in the movie.


As for the dio itself it looks fantastic Gary. Keep up the good work.

First off Gary I'm with the guys, its a very well done dio thus far. We all have similar problems at least I do when I work too long on one dio. After a while especially when I'm very close to finish I get a bit too critical of my work.

Your groundwork has a nice variety and for me is good as it stands. If I was hard pressed to add something it would be to add a bit more individual red bricks. Your surrounding buildings appear to be bricks so maybe adding a bit of red bricks may help bring out the color of your groundwork if nothing else.

I wouldn't go with another umber wash to try and add contrast. If you still feel it needs a bit more contrast try highlighting by drybrushing instead. Dry brush with a mix of light grey and light brown. See how that looks and if you reckon it still needs contrast go with a super diluted wash of matt black mixed with a wee bit of earth brown. I think you're groundwork will just soak up another umber wash as it does look porous giving you a minimal shadow effect.

Great dio, and great movie too. I remember that scene very well. The best advice I can say is I remember everything during that fight was covered in a brownishb tan dust. And lots of it too. Perhaps some ground up pastel chalk or a light misting with your airbrush should finish it off pretty well. I watch that movie every time I think the world is screwed up. It reminds me just how much worse things could be. So I understand your inspiration.

I think the groundwork's excellent, Gary. Looks a bit glossy, but that could be from rain. However, if you are going to have dust from the destroyed buildings, it might be good to matt things down first, as wet and dusty may not look so good together.

Can't comment on the figs as I can't see them well enough.

I live in the same town that the guy who wrote the novel lives in and I know him too. The dio looks good.