I have seen and read plenty of articles on this forum and elsewhere that depict various kit add ons... tracks, gun barrels, armor, detail kits, etc. My question is this; is all of this needed? Now i know that some of these really add to the realism of the piece, but can a great model be built straight from the box? Some of the add ons are pretty pricy and i'd like to know if they're worth it.

Yes, no, maybe so, I've built most of my kits out of the box, but sometimes I like to purchase the extra "goodies" to put on to add to the fun and build up my experience level.

I've seen tons of kits that look absolutely wonderful straight from the box, and some that dont look to good when people get carried away with the after market stuff.

Its all what you want to do and how much money you want to dish out.

Hi Chris,

simply put, no. Very good models can be built straight from the box, and often are. The difference is mostly in scale, and added little details.

Cheers
Henk

Depends on the kit. Some older kits have virtually useless tracks (smooth on the inside or just plain inaccurate). Other times the specific variant of vehicle someone wants to model needs a different style of track than what the kit comes with.

The add ons were originally developed to add missing detail or correct inaccurate or over simplified detail. Other sets were conversions to turn a current kit into a vehicle not available in kit form.

Barrels were developed to assist modelers in improving the look of the kit barrel. Engineering of the time made most kit barrels look uneven or oblonged.

Today, many folks feel the need to use the add ons without any regard to whether the kit needs it or not. Some folks will even give the air of disapproval when modelers use one brand of PE or tracks over another (tsk, tsk, you used the Eduard PE and not Aber? or you used MK tracks and not Fruil?)

Some modelers have gone back to the basics and now scorn those who use any aftermarket add ons. They view their skills as superior and find they do not need any of the bells and whistles many modelers are hooked on.

That's a great question and I think it really depends a lot on the model and the builders preference.
Some older models can really benefit from "add-ons" to improve grossly oversized parts, missing features/details, etc.. A lot of newer models are great right out of the box, especially from some of the bigger names manufacturers. A number of manufacturers even include some of the more popular aftermarket add-ons in the box (sometimes supplied by the aftermarket manufacturers).
Then again, I have had lots of fun building out of scale, poorly shaped, sparsely detailed older models out of the box. Just getting a kit done is sometimes enough of a challenge for me. I can sometimes suffer from AMS (Advanced Modellers Syndrome), which left untreated can be very crippling. The only treatment is a forced OOB completion of something cheap from the 70's. :-)

Thanks, for the advice/info. i recently finished my first kit; Tamiya M4A3 Sherman and it turned out great (with the exception of my amatuer painting and weathering abilities). But now that i have 1 under my belt i'm going to try another one real soon (not sure yet if i'll use any add ons though )
Thanks again.

Hey there Chris

I'm a fairly new model builder myself.. building for about 5 years now and I two was staggered by the options out there for kits..

Personally I may someday take the leap to use a bunch of that aftermarket stuff but right now my builds are mostly OOB.. Out of the box builds, and I find them very enjoyable.. although I do admit I tend to add to my models as my skills improve. I have a lot of accessory kits on hand to add bits of storage, kit, personal weapons, boxes, jerry cans... a few added bits can really dress up a kit. Accessory kits are nice to have on hand for the basic modelbuilder and are fairly inexpensive when compared to all that PE..

As it has been pointed out Chris, most newer kits already include lots of "goodies". Trumpeter and Dragon are great examples. But some older kits need a little "TLC" to bring them up to par. Also depends on how much realism a modeller desires.

I like building models OOB due to the fact that I am a cheap bugger but that is not to say I dont have a set of Fruils for my Dragon Elefant waiting to be build or some Cavalier Zim for a Brummbar.

Its all good

It's a personal choice.
If I was a newcomer, I would concentrate more on developing my basic modeling skills, before worrying about add on parts and expenses. A poorly built basic kit with$200.00 worth of aftermarket "goodies" is still a poorly built kit.
Once you get the basics down, then you'll be better able to decide on moving on to more complicated kits, and aftermarket, or just enjoying the basic hobby of building out of the box. Again a personal choice.
Who knows, in a little while you maybe be scratch-building your own stuff, (and maybe even selling it) but again it all starts out by learning and mastering the basics to the best of your ability.

Sometimes...

That's not helpful is it? :-)

I wondered the same thing and built Tamiya's Tiger I Late in two versions, one OOB and one with MK tracks, Eduard PE zimmerit, 2 sets of aber PE and an aluminium barrel.

Was it worth it for the one with all the after-market stuff? I didn't enjoy building the OOB model any less. It was a lot quicker though (well, it will be - it's 99% finished now). When you get to the really close up details it doesn't look as good as the one with all the AM stuff, but when I've shown the two models to friends and family (none of whom model) I've had to specifically point out the added detail, or they wouldn't have noticed. I know it's there though and I feel proud of the model (it even got me two votes in the MOM competition, which I was delighted with!

I think the kit with all the AM stuff cost 3 or 4 times the base kit price, but it took me 3 or 4 times longer to build. So, in terms of cost per completed model it's probably not worth tripling or quadrupeling the cost. However, the cost per hour of happy (or when a scrap of PE lands on the carpet, unhappy) modelling it's pretty much equal.

I plan to do some other builds with added PE and things, because I enjoyed it, but at the moment I'm building Tamiya's SdKfz 250/1 and Italeri's P38t OOB, and I am enjoying building them as well [1]

If you enjoy modelling for the buzz of showing your finished model to other modellers and want to "compete" against them, then AM stuff is probably worth it. If you like the challenge of working with mixed media and the fine detail of PE, it's worth it. If you just like having something to show for happy hours at your modelling bench, it's probably not.

At the end of the day, there's only one right way to build models: and that is the way YOU enjoy!! Don't let anyone ever tell you different.


Sean


[1] I have to confess that the SdKfz 250/1 has fruil tracks because I just couldn't get the ones in the kit to fit at all (and for no other reason) and the P38t has fruil drive wheels because the kit ones were missing (the kit came in a job lot off ebay).

I agree with Dave ( Grumpyoldman )

I recently returned to modelling after a long long break and after a few projects took the plunge and bought a PE set for a kit and quickly realised at times my skills where not upto doing the PE set full justice. So i am concentrating on improving my building and painting skills buy generally building OOB before going "all out " buying every AM add on available LOL .

If you want to try a kit that has a few "goodies" in it try some of the recent DML releases , most include a PE fret which improves the overall look without you loosing your eyesight and your sanity hehehe


Ian

I like to get the extas to add to my armor kits. I have started getting more and more aluminium gun barrells and track sets. I usually don't bother with PE sets that much though. I wind up losing some of the parts due to tweezer launch or some nonsence as that .

IMHO I think Grumpy gives good advice. With the following cavet; If you WANT to use AM goodies, and have fun doing it, then by all means add what ever makes YOU happy. If you are not interested in AM stuff, then by all means dont use it! It really all comes down to what you want to get out of the hobby.

I have been building models off and on for over 37 years, and as long as I am still having fun I will continue. The day I stop having fun, a whole lotta stash is going up on the ebay! :-)

pretty much in agreement,ive been building WWII armour for 30+ yrs.,and my 15 yrs old son started afew years ago.we built Italeri's old panzer IV H ,and added that ON VEHICLE set,offered by Tamiya,and it really dressed up the model,yet when we built DML's Panzer III E ,and used the P/E set from ABER,where not sure if all of the extra effort was really worth it,it turned out nice,but we both came to the same conculsion,the field equipment brackets with thier clasps just dont look right,almost to a point of being out of scale,and then thiers those D&% wing nuts,i know its a personal choice , and we will use individual tracks links when ever posssible,and some of the Verlinden upgrade sets are wonderful.we picked one up for a M-24 Chaffee (had some resin parts,some P/E)i felt it was outstanding,without going overboard, as what seams to be the case for us ,with full P/E sets,i feel that more can be achived by adding supplies,tarps,extra equipment,tow cables,chains ,take your time,light dry brushing,some washes,light weathering with pastels,and you'll be good to go,and happy with the results,and minus the anger of bending those small itty bitty brass pieces (launching 50%),but i will admit,the larger brass pieces ,the brass fenders and side armour ,are very nice,but certainly not needed,and on with our mod income(with a house full of kids)unless we can pick it up reasonable on ebay,yahoo, we manage without.
just my $0.02.
joe

It all depends on you! And you objectives.

Are you building models for fun? Are you having fun? Want to try and have more fun? Wqnt to improive your skills?

Are you building models for prizes or money? A Business? How can you as for more money that the next guy?

I build to have fun and maybe show people who are interested armor vehicles from the past I am interested in showing them the difference between a Panther Ausf D and and A. I don't worry about the color or Zimmerit being accurate or the number of bolts on the roadwheel. I don't care if my Dunkelgelb is off a little. Or that the ambush pattern I have on my Hetzer was never applied to one.

I do use AM and PE kits to build something that is not available in a kit form, like Fruil Winterketten tracks for my Bergepanzer IV recovery vehicle. Did I need to? No, I could have used the regular tracks and been happy, but I learned that they were used and wanted to try some thing new. Sort of like moving from a paint brush to do the whole model to a rattle can to an airbrush, to a double action airbrush.

I like the metal barrels because I never get the barrels to be round and it just bugged me or I did not like the look of the kit barrel. I did a E-100 and did not like the look of the kit barrel. Now don't tell anyone but I put a barrel from a Russian SU-152 on it.

If you are building a museum quality display then ordering all the PE, AM and metal barrels makes since. After all you will be measuring the bolts to make sure they were the right size and the rivets don't stand too high and the serial number on the turret id correct for that type turret .

One of the many things the hobby teaches us is to be creative and resourceful in developing skills.As Grumpy has said,'basic skills'.One of the best ways to get "aftermarket" is to make it yourself.It's probably the easiest of scratchbuilding tasks.Twigs can be unditching logs or supplemental hull armor.Clay makes great tarps and packs.Same with tissue and glue.Lot's of stuff laying around you can use if you visualize the possibilities.Got some spare change?Hobby/craft stores carry Evergreen and Plastruct products as well as Basswood and balsa stock shapes.
Doesn't have to take a lot of money to make a killer build.Just have fun.
cheers!

and when you finish building up a model,you'll have pieces left over,SAVE everything.at some point you'll ethier need(we where building a Panzer IV and somehow lost a smoke grenade launcher,had one in the parts bin)or use it on a conversion,we took a russian ZIS-5 truck,some tamiya sandbags.left over russian machine guns,mounted them in the truck bed.now we've have a mobile,light A.A. vehicle,and it was fun building it.

There will be two of us then John...... :-) :-)

and when I die...... there will be a large funeral pyre, for the modellers to dance around...... :-)

Viking style? Now that would be somthing to watch!

Hi Chris,
as stated by many members above, AM is all up to you and your wallet thickness :-)

I use them sometimes and on other kits not at all. Generally, the tracks are the parts I'm more keen ot change with AM stuff. I used only one barrel just to give it a try but I still think it's easy to remove the glue seam.

When building kits from some brands (Heller for us French for instance) the AM stuff can be really useful just to get a honest kit as accuracy is concerned.

So make up your mind and above all take pleasure in your hobby.

olivier

Wow, i got a few more responses there then i expected. Well anyway, thanks. i think i'd like to try working with the individual tracks but might leave the PE details for another day. As far as my motives for modeling, i'm not sure... just something to do when my other obligations are done and something to put on my shelf.

One last thought about this. If you're itching to buy some afte-market stuff, then your money might be best spent on some decent figures. I'm not a great figure painter, but I've definitely found that the more detailed, crisply moulded figures are a lot easier to paint than softly moulded figs like early Tamiya ones.

Sean

I agree, one thing that i have learned so far is the figures included in the Tamiya kits aren't the best, especially in the face (some look more like the elaphant man after a bad fist fight).