OK, so I understand it was fairly common (at least in the early part of the war) for the guards to have "plumes" painted on their helmets to represent those on their ceremonial bearskins.

Tamiya's Universal Carrier kit has a similar marking included on the decal sheet (for the 1st Grenadier Guards Motor Battalion), which implies that at least SOME vehicles carried the marking as well. This is the first and only reference I've seen to this practice. I've certainly never seen it in a photograph, and I have quite a collection of books on the Guards. The model shows the marking on both sides of the vehicle, whereas the real plume is only worn on the left (for the Grenadiers), and it appears inverted compared to the usual appearance. Am I misinterpreting the decal? BTW, it's the wrong color for 1st Bttn GG tacsign.

Can anyone here confirm or deny that these markings were ever used on vehicles?

Hi Tommy,


I have never seen any reference to any of the Guards Regiments having used that particular type of marking on any of their vehicles.

Is this the Recce version you have and are you refering to the white triangle, which I asume is some kind of recognition sign but don't know for sure? Not a plume thought.

Best I can do I'm afraid.

Cheers

Al

It was a surprise to me too, until I found this picture of a GG carrier during Goodwood

Carrier

Which has a similar sort of marking on the side, which isn't a tac mark, as that's on the bow.

BTW painting plumes on steel helmets was more common in WW1, thinking here particularly of the 1st Lancashire Fusiliers who were seen with a yellow hackle painted on their helmets at the start of the Somme (which will be 90 years ago this Saturday)

Hmmm,

The remains of a painted out star???

Cheers

Al

Looking at it again, it doesn't appear to be white, at least not if you compare it with the figure on the bridging classification mark on the bow.

The other GG carrier my IWM search pulled up didn't show that part of the hull side.

searching on 'Grenadier Guards' also finds some nice colour photos of early Churchills in brown/black camouflage, which was a diversion

EDIT - could be a painted out triangular tac mark, though that would be a little odd if all the other marks are left uncovered.

Hi all,

The markings on the front look very fresh. My best guess is they had to pull out before they finished painting out the 'shoot here signs' on the side!!

Cheers

Al

Here's a link to the instructions (I hope):

http://www.1999.co.jp/dbimages/user/hobby/itbig/10043441t2.jpg

It doesn't really look like an unfinished or partially removed star to me. Nor do I think it looks like a filled in tacsign, although the one in the photo of the real carrier does. I wonder if it's just an error by Tamiya?

Hi Tommy,

I have the instructions for that kit. Can't really say, David's found a photo so you could use the decals based on that alone it if you like.

Don't know what Tamiya used for reference so I can't honestly say, but equally you could leave it off as there seems to be only the one picture and it's not clear from that if it's a marking or not.

It's one of those areas that's a best guess unless someone comes up with an explanation. You could always email Tamiya and ask them for clarification.

If you look through a range of photo's the earlier ones have the star on the side, but as Goodwood progresses tactics seem to change within some units and I've seen pictures of IG carriers with the star on the front wheel also, but no side markings.

It could be a bit of 'indviidual art' or it might be an almost painted out star. It might have been something done at Pl level, sorry but I just don't know.

Cheers

Al

I think the clue is in the fact that GG were the Motor Battalion of GAD. This is probably a squadron/company marking, or it may be specific to the motor battalion generally to distinguish their vehicles from other units. There's no specific mention of this marking in my references.

Steve, if it were a squadron/company marking then by rights, as the motor batallion it should be green not white like the decal. While there were white squadron markings, these denoted un-brigaded units i.e. armoured car or reconnaissance units.

Been having a bit of a dig about and I can only find that one pic as well. I can only assume given it's position that they've tried to get rid of the "aim here spot" while still using the upright of the star for ground identification. I've never seen it used anywhere else apart from that photo which I have to admit has always puzzled me. The star used on the spare wheel on the hull was for aerial identification as there were no decent horizontal surfaces on Bren carriers to paint it on so it was a field improvisation.