I must admit to seeing the ADS (at least in this 'mild' form) as of pretty limited military applications. On the other hand, it could be seen as a hell of an impressive advert for the system. That thing could break up ANY riot in no time flat. Who wants to bet that various governments are already making 'discreet' inquiries as to its availability.
Now the 'souped-up' version would be hell of an impressive thing to see (from the safe-end side) although I do wonder what kind of power unit would be needed to cause more than just temporary discomfort...
Hosted by Darren Baker
New secret weapon?
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 12:12 AM UTC
acav
Joined: May 09, 2002
KitMaker: 517 posts
Armorama: 290 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 12:45 AM UTC
Just charming.
What a lovely weapon of oppression this would be in the wrong hands - and I'd have to say we should all be aware that the State (any State...) is only the turn of a thumb screw away from being custodians of a free and open society in which the opinions of all citizens are valued and their lifestyles respected* to on oppressive and hideous mostrosity with scant regard for the lives of the masses...
* if anybody knows of such a place, please PM me - I'd love to live there...
I can't believe you're all wetting your pants over this.
Sure, they reveal the Non Lethal version today - tomorrow, some genius will swap out a couple of widgets, up the amperes by changing the dingus and voila, a full on people scrambler.
Think it won't happen?
Watch this space.
If you're allowed to.
acav out
PS see? This is why I don't model anything 'modern'...
What a lovely weapon of oppression this would be in the wrong hands - and I'd have to say we should all be aware that the State (any State...) is only the turn of a thumb screw away from being custodians of a free and open society in which the opinions of all citizens are valued and their lifestyles respected* to on oppressive and hideous mostrosity with scant regard for the lives of the masses...
* if anybody knows of such a place, please PM me - I'd love to live there...
I can't believe you're all wetting your pants over this.
Sure, they reveal the Non Lethal version today - tomorrow, some genius will swap out a couple of widgets, up the amperes by changing the dingus and voila, a full on people scrambler.
Think it won't happen?
Watch this space.
If you're allowed to.
acav out
PS see? This is why I don't model anything 'modern'...
USArmy2534
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
Armorama: 1,864 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 12:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
On a serious note, what is the fash-point of gasoline? Wouldn't this, in an urban environment, have a tendency to kinda ignite gas-tanks? On the other hand igniting molotov cocktails in the hands of rioters COULD be an unexpected benefit... :-)
As far as gas tanks go, it wouldn't matter. The system uses milimeter-waves which I read can only penetrate 1/64 inches of human skin. I would gander that it would be able to penetrate much less in the solid metal of a gas tank. Now, even if gas was present, it wouldn't matter. See autoignition temps below (autoignition temperature being the lowest temperature needed to spontaneously combust).
Gasoline:
Autoignition temperature: 246 °C (475 °F)
Diesel:
Autoignition temperature: 210 °C (410 °F)
Jet Fuel:
Autoignition Temperature: 210 °C (410 °F)
Now the counter to this is easy. The system is obviously designed to disperse crowds wearing clothes. However given the small wavelength that is used, it wouldn't be to hard to add more layers of clothes to reduce or negate all together the effects....however you'd be really hot...so I guess it still works
acav
Joined: May 09, 2002
KitMaker: 517 posts
Armorama: 290 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 12:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Now the counter to this is easy. The system is obviously designed to disperse crowds wearing clothes. However given the small wavelength that is used, it wouldn't be to hard to add more layers of clothes to reduce or negate all together the effects....however you'd be really hot...so I guess it still works
maybe there's something to wearing that tinfoil hat after all...
HansBolter
Joined: September 27, 2006
KitMaker: 42 posts
Armorama: 38 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 01:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Just charming.
What a lovely weapon of oppression this would be in the wrong hands - and I'd have to say we should all be aware that the State (any State...) is only the turn of a thumb screw away from being custodians of a free and open society in which the opinions of all citizens are valued and their lifestyles respected* to on oppressive and hideous mostrosity with scant regard for the lives of the masses...
* if anybody knows of such a place, please PM me - I'd love to live there...
I can't believe you're all wetting your pants over this.
Sure, they reveal the Non Lethal version today - tomorrow, some genius will swap out a couple of widgets, up the amperes by changing the dingus and voila, a full on people scrambler.
Think it won't happen?
Watch this space.
If you're allowed to.
acav out
PS see? This is why I don't model anything 'modern'...
We are wetting our pants over it becasue we have a fascination with military hardware lest we wouldn't likely be members of and posting on a website devoted to armor modeling!
Beaver22
Joined: January 05, 2007
KitMaker: 263 posts
Armorama: 228 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 01:28 AM UTC
Scratch build anyone?
2CAVTrooper
Joined: October 21, 2005
KitMaker: 310 posts
Armorama: 302 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 01:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
On a serious note, what is the fash-point of gasoline? Wouldn't this, in an urban environment, have a tendency to kinda ignite gas-tanks? On the other hand igniting molotov cocktails in the hands of rioters COULD be an unexpected benefit... :-)
Flash point or autoignition point?
The flash point for gasoline is around -45F. The autoignition point for gasoline is around 495F. So unless the contraption can heat something up to 495F, gas is safe.
Though if they are holding a molotov, and they get zapped by it, it's a safe bet that they'll drop it and become one of those "Priceless" posters :-)
NebLWeffah
Joined: October 13, 2004
KitMaker: 1,683 posts
Armorama: 1,248 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 02:18 AM UTC
Here's the Wikipedia article on it. The 'Active Denial System' or ADS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 02:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Just charming.
What a lovely weapon of oppression this would be in the wrong hands - and I'd have to say we should all be aware that the State (any State...) is only the turn of a thumb screw away from being custodians of a free and open society in which the opinions of all citizens are valued and their lifestyles respected* to on oppressive and hideous mostrosity with scant regard for the lives of the masses...
* if anybody knows of such a place, please PM me - I'd love to live there...
I can't believe you're all wetting your pants over this.
Sure, they reveal the Non Lethal version today - tomorrow, some genius will swap out a couple of widgets, up the amperes by changing the dingus and voila, a full on people scrambler.
Think it won't happen?
Watch this space.
If you're allowed to.
acav out
PS see? This is why I don't model anything 'modern'...
Oh Please. Spare us the conspiracy theory crap.
2CAVTrooper
Joined: October 21, 2005
KitMaker: 310 posts
Armorama: 302 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 02:50 AM UTC
I agree
USArmy2534
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
Armorama: 1,864 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 03:03 AM UTC
BTW, here is the DoD release of it. It was shown in an exhibition in DC this week.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2007/01/mil-070126-afps03.htm
Jeff
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2007/01/mil-070126-afps03.htm
Jeff
acav
Joined: May 09, 2002
KitMaker: 517 posts
Armorama: 290 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 04:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Oh Please. Spare us the conspiracy theory crap.
Thanks for the considered and eloquent response.
Care to put any money on somebody NOT being killed or seriously injured when these things are employed..?
acav out
Bud1
Joined: January 06, 2005
KitMaker: 73 posts
Armorama: 67 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 04:46 AM UTC
If they can crank the temp up to 451F, it'll ignite all those protest banners as well.
It would make an interesting model, but is there a very large generator truck parked close by? It seems very unlikely that something like this could be powered from on board a Humvee.
It would make an interesting model, but is there a very large generator truck parked close by? It seems very unlikely that something like this could be powered from on board a Humvee.
SmashedGlass
Joined: October 26, 2006
KitMaker: 105 posts
Armorama: 25 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 06:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
...The beam penetrates to a depth of 1/64th of an inch and elevates the skin temperature to 130 degrees F creating the sensation of being on fire.
122d F is the temp at which a human reflexively retracts away from a heat source. The effect causes a combatant to immediately drop all hand held weapons while they "freak out" over being "on fire"....
Only problem I see with this is.........during the summer it routinely hits an air temp of 130deg F....dont really see that this will make a difference lol. It was pretty bad when it finally dropped to around 100deg F in October of '03 and we actually felt COOL.
This post was removed.
novembersong
Joined: July 03, 2006
KitMaker: 370 posts
Armorama: 236 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 09:18 AM UTC
Global security.org also said: "Countermeasures against the weapon could be quite straightforward — for example covering up the body with thick clothes or carrying a metallic sheet — or even a trash can lid — as a shield or reflector. Also unclear is how the active-denial technology would work in rainy, foggy or sea-spray conditions where the beam's energy could be absorbed by water in the atmosphere."
Did you check out any of the other stuff their building? The Pulsed Energy Projectile (PEP) sounded pretty slick, as did the "Black Ice" thing.
Did you check out any of the other stuff their building? The Pulsed Energy Projectile (PEP) sounded pretty slick, as did the "Black Ice" thing.
erichvon
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 1,694 posts
Armorama: 1,584 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 09:28 AM UTC
I wonder how long it would take to reheat last nights Chinese takaway? 
Hisham
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 11:24 AM UTC
Thank you for building weapons which will enable governments like my country's government... and many others... to be even more oppressive than they already are with your country's support. The soviet union used to be one of the safest places to live in.. because everybody was stepped on in the name of national security.
strathcona
Joined: January 19, 2007
KitMaker: 30 posts
Armorama: 27 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 01:59 PM UTC
Hello,
Secret Weapon, LOL. In Canada we are developing soldiers, that require very little sleep ,require almost no " creature comforts",need almost nothing to eat, and the need to hydrate occasionally.They have no emotional or material ties , ( IE wife , GF , parents, " the house", the wife's job ,children with problems,etc, so no " issues.)I am one of the " Guinea Pigs ". Just joking , but I have been close to that LOL. But then again , imagine an army , like that.Then you would have an Army.And it would make my job easier , as a Sgt.
Frank
" PERSEVERANCE"
" Sleep is for Wimps", just joking again.I hope I didn't ruffle anyones feathers.
Secret Weapon, LOL. In Canada we are developing soldiers, that require very little sleep ,require almost no " creature comforts",need almost nothing to eat, and the need to hydrate occasionally.They have no emotional or material ties , ( IE wife , GF , parents, " the house", the wife's job ,children with problems,etc, so no " issues.)I am one of the " Guinea Pigs ". Just joking , but I have been close to that LOL. But then again , imagine an army , like that.Then you would have an Army.And it would make my job easier , as a Sgt.
Frank
" PERSEVERANCE"
" Sleep is for Wimps", just joking again.I hope I didn't ruffle anyones feathers.
redneck
Joined: June 06, 2005
KitMaker: 1,602 posts
Armorama: 384 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 06:02 PM UTC
May just be me but I don’t see how this could wort too efficiently on a crowd.
Wouldn’t the people in the front shield those behind them?
Wouldn’t the people in the front shield those behind them?
novembersong
Joined: July 03, 2006
KitMaker: 370 posts
Armorama: 236 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 07:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
May just be me but I don’t see how this could wort too efficiently on a crowd. Wouldn’t the people in the front shield those behind them?
Good point R.N, and one I think Hisham needs to consider as well, this really isn't very realistic to produce. The countermeasures that Global security brought up all but render this thing useless. Besides, did you see how big the radar dish is? It's bigger than the Humvee its connected to!! Even Stevie Wonder could take that thing out.
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 08:13 PM UTC
I still have reservations about the effectiveness of this system although i'm NOT a physicist. It does strike me as something which would have a number of drawbacks simply as there are, it appears, a number of countermeasures which seem to be effective..
That said, I really must take issue with some of the opinions expressed here about this being a 'weapon of oppressiion' . Having trained in the use of the Baton round and having seen what one of these can do to a test dummy, I would say that the use of non-permanent 'denial systems is considerably more preferable than the more indiscriminate nature of a Baton Round....Just my dos centimos..
That said, I really must take issue with some of the opinions expressed here about this being a 'weapon of oppressiion' . Having trained in the use of the Baton round and having seen what one of these can do to a test dummy, I would say that the use of non-permanent 'denial systems is considerably more preferable than the more indiscriminate nature of a Baton Round....Just my dos centimos..
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 11:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
That said, I really must take issue with some of the opinions expressed here about this being a 'weapon of oppressiion'
Gracious! Should the post not then disappear, as other posts similar in nature?
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 11:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Should the post not then disappear, as other posts similar in nature?
Why should it? There are a number of different points of view being expressed in a mature and polite manner. I just (personally) find it difficult to see any real objection to a non-lethal system like this. There should be NO possible reason to delete or lock an interesting thread like this....
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Friday, January 26, 2007 - 11:28 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextShould the post not then disappear, as other posts similar in nature?
Why should it? There are a number of different points of view being expressed in a mature and polite manner. I just (personally) find it difficult to see any real objection to a non-lethal system like this. There should be NO possible reason to delete or lock an interesting thread like this....
Exactly. "A number of posts..." The absence of the words "all of the posts" suggests that some are not. I have seen posts with less politically motivated statements removed almost instantly. (M1 thread from the other day)
Personally, the statements never bother me (I'm a big boy, and play by big boy rules) as I live in the land of the free. I'm just looking for consistency, whether interesting or not.
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