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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
New secret weapon?
gcdavidson
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: August 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,698 posts
Armorama: 1,563 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 10:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

, this really isn't very realistic to produce.


This system strikes me more as a proof-of-concept than something that would actually be fielded.

It may only give an 'uncomfortable' burning sensation for now...but machines like this are generally scalable, and I think a few tweaks would give it a thermal yield somewhere between running-away-with-hair-on-fire and boiling vitreous humour. But then I suppose the angry crowds will field bigger and thicker garbage can lids, and the non-lethal arms race will continue to escalate.
Shadowfax
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Michigan, United States
Joined: November 02, 2006
KitMaker: 389 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 11:22 AM UTC
You know... the million dollar question is...

Can it replace my George Foreman Grill!?

This just sounds like a microwave oven without the oven part.
ViperAtl
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Georgia, United States
Joined: August 22, 2005
KitMaker: 331 posts
Armorama: 191 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 11:28 AM UTC

Whatever happened to "kill 'em all and let God sort it out"? Oh yeah, one side is already fighting like that and the "non-lethal" side is allowing it to continue.

Other good uses for this thing:

Breakup a PETA demostration at the big BBQ.

Clear the mall of pain in the ass kids.

Drive the mother-in-law off before she hits the front door.

Guard the southern US border.

Clear out San Francisco of hippies and such.

Keep employees in the office and working.

Smokeless BBQ.

Towel warmer for the wife.

Soccer hooligans.

Cell phone users while driving 24 MPH under the speed limit.

Keep the wife, kids and mother-in-law away from the model stash.
novembersong
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Ohio, United States
Joined: July 03, 2006
KitMaker: 370 posts
Armorama: 236 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 07:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

This system strikes me more as a proof-of-concept than something that would actually be fielded.


Stormfront, you took the words-that obviously I could not produce myself- right out of my mouth.
This post was removed.
AndyD
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: December 01, 2004
KitMaker: 672 posts
Armorama: 282 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 05:50 PM UTC
My goodness this forum is getting rather heated....

**Boom -Tish ***

Ok, ok it was a poor joke...
RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 06:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Obviously, the internet enhances our ability to find information quickly. The challenge is to ensure that someone does not inadvertently post something that could cause a problem.


A couple of Norwegians were charged with espionage and I think they
were actually convicted because they had compiled information that could be deduced from the official phone books published by the Norwegian state owned phone company.
So just because it is published doesn't mean it is safe,
when it is published and shown around by defence agencies one
may assume that it is intended for public knowledge.


In this case publication and widespread public knowledge is probably more than 50% of the efficiency of the ADS system. People will disperse when such a vehicle shows up, even without activating the system, fear is a very powerful weapon.
/ Robin
RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 07:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

...The beam penetrates to a depth of 1/64th of an inch and elevates the skin temperature to 130 degrees F creating the sensation of being on fire.

122d F is the temp at which a human reflexively retracts away from a heat source. The effect causes a combatant to immediately drop all hand held weapons while they "freak out" over being "on fire"....


Only problem I see with this is.........during the summer it routinely hits an air temp of 130deg F....dont really see that this will make a difference lol. It was pretty bad when it finally dropped to around 100deg F in October of '03 and we actually felt COOL.


It's a major difference to actually have the skin temperature elevated to
130 deg F and feeling the heat from the surrounding air. Sweating and
other mechanisms cool the skin down when heated by hot air but getting the skin heated by microwave is something quite different.
Try the following, on a day with 130 F outdoors temperatures try sticking your arm into a bucket full of 130 F water and report back if you could feel the difference ;-)
RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 08:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Global security.org also said: "Countermeasures against the weapon could be quite straightforward — for example covering up the body with thick clothes or carrying a metallic sheet — or even a trash can lid — as a shield or reflector. snipped.




The possible countermeasures come up against two obstacles:
nr 1 is Psychology and nr 2 is Physics.
1a. Would You stand in the second rank in the riot and depend on the rioter in front of you to stand still and keep on shielding you?
1b. Would You want to be the rioter in the front rank shielding the "unreliable b-st-rds" behind you, depending on them not running away if some stray microwave energy should heat their precious skin?
1c. Would you depend on the shielding effect of the rioters in front when you may have been told that microwave only needs an opening of a few millimetres to leak through?

2a. Have a look inside a microwave, especially how the lid is built and start thinking about how well the lid seals to the cabinet and the small holes in the grid/mesh covering the lid. The size of those holes is just small enough to keep the microwave bouncing inside the cabinet instead of getting loose in your kitchen.
2b. Any protective clothing would have to be just as tight and sealed as the lid on a microwave oven, otherwise the energy gets through and the
"heat is on".
2c. Have You ever watched the funny sparkles when there is a metal object inside the microwave? Care to hold on to a metal object or stand really close to someone doing this (see under items 1 above).
2d. What happens to the backsides of the rioters in the front rank when microwave starts bouncing of the trashcan lids held by the rioters in the second rank (also see item 1b)

Summing up: Considering the above, would you care to participate in a riot? Stay home and wait for the "others" to report back on the efficiency of the "countermeasures"?

/ Robin
acav
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Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: May 09, 2002
KitMaker: 517 posts
Armorama: 290 posts
Posted: Monday, January 29, 2007 - 01:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text


... in the riot and depend on the rioter in front ...
... the rioter in the front rank
... of the rioters...
... of the rioters...
... by the rioters...


One person's riot is another person's demo.
Your comments - and those of many preceding your post - assume that the system will 'only' be deployed against 'rioters'.
Somehow, I doubt it.

Oft times, it would be the presence of such a device which could turn a demo into a riot, not to mention the presence of agents provocateurs etc (cf Poll Tax 'Riot', London 1990)

But, of course, if you live in the land of the free, you have nothing to fear, because government always listens to the voice of the little guy :-) :-) :-)


Quoted Text


Summing up: Considering the above, would you care to participate in a riot? Stay home and wait for the "others" to report back on the efficiency of the "countermeasures"?


I don't care to participate in 'riots', and have walked away from demonstrations that threatened to turn ugly (eg, May Day Demonstration, London 2001, when the Met Police illegally detained peaceful protesters for more than six hours at Oxford Circus)

However, I do regard the right to protest peacefully as being a central plank of 'democracy'.
That's freedom of speech, right..?

Article 20, item one, of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that 'Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.'

Can we now get back to assembling peacefully..?
Kits, that is...

acav out
Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 29, 2007 - 01:29 AM UTC
The problem is that you guys are assuming that the government will always be the good guys.. while the demonstrators will always be the bad guys.

# What about the Mujahideen who fought against the Soviet Union?

# What about people who were against Saddam Hussein... and others like him in the Arab world?

# What about possible demonstrators rising against the government in North Korea?

That's all I'm afraid of. How can you guarantee that advanced weapon systems like this will only be used by "good-guy" democratic governments?

Hope you guys never have to find out how the other side of the coin feels.
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Monday, January 29, 2007 - 01:35 AM UTC
Hey, shift to the History Forum with the rants so we can get back to modeling on this forum and the moderator of the History Forum can stop the topic.
tankfixer
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Missouri, United States
Joined: October 15, 2005
KitMaker: 283 posts
Armorama: 110 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 07:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Amazes me that no one is shouting that you are discussing national security issues as was the case with Frenchy's pictures of the Warlock system. I assume this is not viewed as an OPSEC violation as many thought the earlier item was...both are on the internet. I guess they are still busy calling the FBI over the last item. Loose lips sink ships.
You ever go to Globalsecurity.org. The first time I went there I was suprised at all the info they had available
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 05:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Amazes me that no one is shouting that you are discussing national security issues as was the case with Frenchy's pictures of the Warlock system. I assume this is not viewed as an OPSEC violation as many thought the earlier item was...both are on the internet. I guess they are still busy calling the FBI over the last item. Loose lips sink ships.
You ever go to Globalsecurity.org. The first time I went there I was suprised at all the info they had available


Billl-- that's where I found unclassified material. I am well aware of the don't tell anyone stuff.
DJ
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