Hi all!

Got question: Universal Carriers, were they ever painted in north africa in 3 tone camo scheme? I´ve been searching the internet for hours and I found photos of model, but no serious reference material...

Thanks for help

tank # T21314 had camouflage on. B&W photo so I can't say what it is.

I got some photos but I forgot where I pulled them from.

The germans captured some and applied camo on them too.

Hi Matous,

I haven't look much into the Universal carrier in N Africe but some were camoed up and some not.

There is a good picture of one in Tunisia in 1943, IWM - TR631 which is in colour and it looks to be just OD, p144. 'The Desert War by george Forty'.

There is another picture of 2 on p54 at Fort Capuzzo in the western desert and the one in the background would appear to have the straight edge blue/grey/sand camo on it. (IWM - E 1433) Unfortunately it is not in colour but my answer would be yes, you coud have a similar patttern to that found on the Stuart.

Although there was a series of camo policies that came out, CO's were given a lot of lee-way in how they painted their individual unit vehicles.

I believe the 3 part camo scheme was quite widely used in the early part of the war.

Have a look on IWM site for more images.

http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Al

Hi Matous,

I had a look on IWM site and here's my take on it so far:

1940 up to 1942 They still seem to be using the 3 tone camo:





1942 to 1943 they seem to have gone desert yellow: not a good example but a fun picture:



1943 onwards two tone camo:



Here's a nice picture from the early period with a .30 cal mounted:



I don't think this was fixed in stone but the time frame is from the pics I looked at on IWM site suggest it.

Cheers

Al

Nice pics Alan. From what I understand, the "blue" color in the "Caunter" scheme has been debunked by Mike Starmer's research. I don't recall the exact colors but it's on the MAFVA site. HTH, Roy

Hi Roy,

There's a colour picture on p 61 The Desert War By George Forty of a knocked out Royles Royce Armoured Car and it most certainly has a 3 tone camo of light blue, sand and darker grey. Original pics from BKUW whoever that is.

Here's an early M3 from the 8th Hussars in 1941. Your guess is as good as mine regards colour.



One from the 16/5 Lancers near Tunis 1943, where it's the Grey/Sand scheme in operation:



This issue will probably always be around :-) :-) :-) :-)

I read somewhere recently that the sharp edge 3 tone camo scheme was extremely effective. It created some sort of optical illusion and gunners couldn't get an accurate range on the vehicles no matter how hard they tried.

Cheers

Al

Several of the camouflaged carriers above are Bren Carriers rather than Universals. Here's another one I found, which is also not a Universal

Anzac armour

Note the colour division is in almost exactly the same place as the examples further up the thread, suggesting the scheme is carefully applied to a pattern. As for colours, they should be something like stone, silver grey (same as RAF Sky) and slate grey. Probably The MAFVA resources page and Mike Starmer's books are your friends here.

David

Hi David,

Useful link, bookmarked - Thanks

Cheers

Al

Hi Matous;

Barry Beldam's site Armoured Acorn has what I think you are after.

Check out, Early Desert under Non Canadian Vehicle Markings or click here. Page 2 has a colour illustration of a Universal Carrier in Caunter Scheme.

Hope this is of some help

cheers
David

Alan, the 16/5 Crusader is actually in British Green with natural dust. Most of the 6AD vehicles entered the Tunisian campaign in the green overall scheme. The Mike Starmer Books and the MAFVA site detail this quite well as do the period photographs
Cheers
Al

Hi Al,

Thanks for that and it fits as my M4A1 Mid production kit has the same greyish/green when it's been weathered with some light dust.

Pics can be deceptive lol, lol.

Cheers

Al