Last week I posted a thread requesting a little information on the M3 grant before I got stuck in.

So far I have the main sub-assemby complete, awaiting the Eduard set which should arrive on Monday (Fingers crossed). I thought about am interior set, but the price put me off a little. Also, I want to focus this build on a new painting technique which will make itself know in due course.

I have applied a coat of Mr Surfacer 1000 to the turret and hull to simulate casting texture.



I have used a stippling method to achieve a courser texture.



Just for a giggle, I tried to make a mud flap from alu foil. Still needs a little work, so I think I will leave this to my next project. I always try at least one new technique with every build. Otherwise your skills will never develop.



I will focus on the painting on this occasion!

One last thing. Can anybody tell me if this is a radio wask. I don't want to pop an aeriel in there if it's not!!!



Hope you enjoy my WIP thread.

Thanks for reading

Stuart

http://www.tanxheaven.com/referencepictures.htm

This site has two preserved Grants in photos. Look specifically at the details around the transmission -- I think the Tamiya kit is weak there.

HTH

It is the radio antenna mount for an M3 Lee. However, I believe it was not there on the Grant, as the turret overhang would be in the way...

Ignore the radio mount on the hull side, that's a holdover from the US M3 version, the Grant only mounted aerials on the turret, like this 4 CLY one here



Note that the bow MG ports haven't been plugged....

David

Take a close look at the turret contours of the museum vehicle--you may want to correct the Tamiya turret a bit. Tamiya placed the opening for the gun sight on the turret aimed at the sky--you'll need to elevate the 37mm to match, or carve out the bottom of the slot and fill the top with styrene so the gunner is looking at the horizon. And of course, replace the tracks and roadwheels. The upper hull has errors in proportion, which can't really be fixed short of replacing it, so just give it a clean build and a great paint job.

Don't forget that Grants had asymmetric stowage bins, unlike the US pattern ones which come with the kit

Another view of the tank in yesterday's post shows the bin on the RHS is much lower than the kit-supplied bins, possibly to allow rear view for the driver through the port in the rear of the upper hull. The bin on the LHS is higher than the kit-supplied one...



David

Stuart,

You may not want to know what follows, if that is so, just close your eyes and move along. :-)

The Tamiya Grant turret is one of the more misshapen turrets to have ever be committed to plastic. The original tool maker got the angle of the gun mounting pate wrong by 5 degrees. This may not sound like much, but it has resulted in the turret being about 0.150" too tall giving the turret a very "inflated" look. The shape of the turret from above, though, is pretty good, so, to fix it you have to chop out the front turret face, remove 0.150" from the bottom of the upper turret part and then reset the front face back into the remains of the turret at a 45 deg angle. Then blend in the rim of the lower turret to the corners of the upper turret making the walls angle away from the vertical much more. This alone makes the turret look 100% better than the kit part. It sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't.

A few small improvements you can make withuot drastic surgery are:

- The kit part with the line of bolts that attach the differential cover to the hull is actually part of the cover and not separate on the real thing, so the seam seen in your photo should be filled and then the cast texture should continue over that surface.
- The flanges between the three pieces of the differential cover have very noticable seams when assembled. While it is pretty much always good practice to remove the kit seams, in this case the part looks better with the small seam than without. To improve what you have you can add a strip of plastic to one half of that flange. About .005 - .010" thick would be enough to show them being uneven.
- the rear idler mounts on these kits is completely fictional. If you have (or can get) an old Italeri M4A1 kit, you can take the parts from that kit and kitbash them to the Grant kit. Formations also sells replacement parts that are particularly sweet.
- Add locking pins to the fuel filler caps. Online photos will show you which end had the pins and which was the hinge.
- If you can get them (and afford them) replace the kit tracks with a set of RHPS WE210 track as pretty much every Grant was operating with this standard Commonwealth track at the time.
- add small pips from stretched sprue around the main gun opening to represent the snaps for the canvas cover shown in the photo (or add the cover itself from glue soaked tissue or Epoxy Putty).
- Be careful to blank off the view down into the engine compartment where you have removed the kit grillework.
- fill the seam where the rear superstructure parts intersect with the forward edge of the sponsons (just under the antenna mount circled in your photo). On the real vehicle this is a single piece of angle iron and not two strips.

I am including a photo of my Grant turret to show you the difference in the kit part.



All the bset,

Paul

I'd suggest adding a strip to the joining flanges on the nose, as leaving the mould seam doesn't really replicate the effect of a slight mis-match on the joint. Note that the CLY Grant has been hit on one of the final drives and the projectile has gone on to damage one of the flanges.

Hard to tell, but the first photo seems to show a driver's periscope too.

David

I have only recently started researching my models when I build them. I now find this an important and enjoyable part of the process.

However, this Tamiya kit is proving to be a detail nightmare. Considering all of the points that have been raised, I think I will concentrate on the paint technique with this kit.

It does go to show anybody out there the power of this forum. It would have taken hours to absorb all of this information from books and the internet, but with the help of people in the know, I can see where this kits flaws are and have the option of correcting them if I feel the need.

Paul

Nice work on the turrets, but isn't that a Lee type turret on the right. The detail on the cupola is nice too.

Thanks

Stuart

Dave:

I agree, a strip of plastic would be better on the flange than leaving the seam, but I wasn't sure where Stuart's comfort level was with adding additional detail. In fact what I have done for 3-piece covers is to add a piece of plastic to each side, and scrape them down independently, creating an undulating mismatch. That looks pretty good when finished.

Stuart,

Indeed, the right turret is for the Lee. The Tamiya Lee has a lot of problems as well and the Lee hull is even worse than the Grant hull.

The main problem with the Tamiya hulls is that they are too wide by about .100". If you try to fit an aftermarked 3-piece cover, it'll just fall into the hole. It's that much oversize! Once the hull is too wide, all the superstructure angles are off to try to compensate.

The obvious things, like the 6 spoke wheels, the crappy idlers, the misshapen turrets and the bogus M3 rear hull are all correctable with more or less work. The hull width is, for most of us, unfixable. Might as well build the bloody thing from scratch once you get to that point. It would be much easier.

Paul

http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reference/armour/m3grant/m3grant.htm
Stuart,
Here is a link to a Grant walkaround at Perth MM that might be useful.
Best regards,
Gary

My word, I never knew there could be so many mistakes in one kit. The Eduard PE set did sort out a few problems, such as the asymetrical stowage containers and the scale of the side skirts.



There was a small gap between the upper and lower hulls when placed together. This was rectified with the thin wedge of styrene.



I think the tool clamps will look quite nice when painted and tooled up.



Considering all the correction work involved to get this kit perfect, I think I am going to concentrate on the painting side of this build.

I have just primed the hull ready for painting, so keep watching.....

Thanks

Stuart

Ok, primer and base cote are now on.

I used a Tamiya sprey can for this olive coat as, I have just broken the button off of my airbrush.

The finish is ok, but it comes out very thick. Holding it further away does go some way to rectify this, though I am not really convinced.



really glad I got the PE set.



Because the Olive coat went on a little too thick, the cast texture I applied is a bit lost. Oh well, learning curve and all....



Next step will be to apply a masking medeum and spray on the dark yellow coat.

Stay tuned!

Stuart

Here is the test plate for the paintwork.

There have been two different applications. I will reveal all in my up coming feature.....

I think I am going to go with the technique on the right side of the plate. The one on the left is a little unpredictable.



I will bring myself to apply this to the model tonight. Quite a lot of prep work though.

Keep you posted.

Stuart

Hi there

Well, I have used the turret as a test part. The logic behind that is I have already lost most of the texture I have applied, so if something were to go wrong, I could always start again.

The turret has so far recieved:
Surfacer
Primer
Olive drab
masking formula
Dark yellow
Light rusting
3x oil wash of burnt sienna.



Hope you like. I am going to move onto the main hull tomorrow. Scary!!

Stuart

that's a little too much paint peeling for my taste but the effect is really convincing!
great technique and excellent choice of colors

I tend to agree. For the desert the paint didn't som emuch peel off large areas as abrade away in small areas. The left hand sample in the message above is a better representation of this. Also I'd eliminate any and all rust. It's the desert and stuff just didn't rust there. The use of graphite on edges gives a really good "old burnished steel" look and is great for this sort of area. TRacks also shouldn't have any rust. The dry soil burnshed pretty much everything to a bright satin chrome appearance. Take a look at some local buldosers and you'll get a good handle on the colour I'm referring to.

The peeling effect is great, it just isn't appropriate to the desert.

Paul

Hi there

Thank you for the valuable advice Paul. You have a very good point about the weather conditions effecting the type of corrosion paint will be exposed to.

It's funny how you start out with one idea and before you know it it's not even set in the same war!!

Anyway, here are the latest. I am sticking with the rust theme for the time being and considering changing the setting of the tank. Depicting it sat in a museum/collection slowly rusting away seem a more plausable life for my Grant.

The rust was achieved by lightly stippling red brown around the edges of the top coat. A couple more washes of burnt sienna should blend everything together..... I hope.



I am fairly pleased with the effect, though I believe it may be a little patchy in places.



The same rust technique was adopted on the exhaust, only this time I included a lighter shade blended in with the red brown.



Next job is to finish the rusting all around the tank and then get onto the bogies and tracks. I would really apreciate a bit of guidance on that stage of the build.

thank you for reading.

Stuart

This is more like where I am going now.


Stuart

it's not all that important what other people think as long as you are having fun...and though we might have different opinions, the quality of your work is such that i derive enjoyment watching the photos - keep it going, it's gonna be awesome to see this thing finished

Hi there

I have continued the rusting onto the other side, this time in a slightly lighter shade to see which I prefer. The technique was the same; red brown applied with a sponge. I have not applied any washes over the rust yet though, which should blend it in nicely.





I got onto the rollers today. I see a lot of work with these! The detail on the drive wheel and idlers is pretty good. Not so impressed with the rollers though. I think I was a little spoilt whilst building the AFV Club M36 Jackson. the running gear on that model was outstanding.



These are very similar to the sherman bogies, apart from the return wheels on the top, would there still be three bolts at the bottom like on the example below.



Thank you as always for all your constructive feedback. This forum has really shaped this build. I think it may have been quite a different tank at the end without all of your help.

Stuart

These are very similar to the sherman bogies, apart from the return wheels on the top, would there still be three bolts at the bottom like on the example below.



The early suspension doesn't have the three bolts on the bogie face.

I am curious, did you use the kit wheels? Are you going to replace the track with WE210?

Nice Technique!
Chris

Stuart,

One of the cardinal sins of the Tamiya Lee & Grant kits is the 6 spoke wheels. They just never existed. You should replacve them with 5 spoke wheels from another Sherman kit or from the aftermarket. It makes a world of difference, especially as you have added PE, so new wheels aren't out of character.

Another word of warning is that the rear idler mounts are complete crap as well. Formations sells a nice idler ipdate kit for a few dollars and can probably sell you wheels as well. Good value for money.



As has been said, there are no bolts on the bottom. For the later Sherman suspension the bearing was trapped by that lower part which bolts up into the main bogey frame, thus the joint is horizontal. On the earlier Lee suspension, the seam is vertical at the bottom, the bearings being held in a "C" type clevis with a bolt on the front and back face of the frame to cynch the "C" closed on the bearing. (if that makes sense)

Paul

Thanks for the heads up on the wheels.

FYI: I found referance I was looking for on the bolts; they are located on the sides of the of the bogie:



M3 Grant Tour

That's a Great site by the way.

I will now hunt for a cheap Sherman. At least I can get the rest of the rusting finished, it won't take long to paint and weather a set of wheels.

Meanwhile, I have been experimenting on the alu foil theme mentioned earlier for the mud flaps. I have ripped apart this old Italeri Willy's Jeep that was gathering dust and did a bit of experimenting. This is a test piece for my next article. Thanks again for all of your imput.



Keep you posted, as ever.

Stuart

Finally almost finished. I hope to take this to Torbay Model show at the weekend to enter into the competition. I have only ever entered one show competition. I hope to do better this time.



I have to admit I left the kit wheels on. My reason behind this is that they would be partly covered by the bracken and would seriously delay my entry for the weekend.

I quite like the moss, which was stolen from a plant display in a tile warehouse and the 'keep out' sign emphasizes the lighthearted approach to the build.

Thanks for viewing.

Stuart

Next hosted build will be the interior of a Daimler 'Dingo'.