GEORGE: I too am building a Panther F with the same scenario. If you were to strive for "accuracy," I would not use red primer (something that's way overdone IMHO) and go with overall olivgrun.

HERBERT: Rot Oxid is a definite no-no.

GERALD: As for red primer, this was unlikely, as, from December 1944 on, all subcontractors were supposed to paint the parts Olivgrun before delivering them to the final assembly plants.

GEORGE: At the risk of provoking howls of protest again, that's a much more attractive (and realistic!) idea than the usual red barrels, red hatches, one red wheel, etc.

do I detect the beginnings of an Armorama anti-Rotoxid rebellion

it might just be more to do with the time frame of the panther F and for when the order for olivgrun was given????

Interesting thread here, since I've been guilty of both using and not using red oxide... Now how about seeing some photographic evidence that backs up either claim?

Tanks
Andy

As I am also interested in this question I wrote a mail to the Patton Museum in Fort Knox who has been answered today as follow:

... one can still see the uniform dark color finish/base coat on the wheels.

If we go with the notion that red oxide primer was not used as part of camo painting, where does that leave the famous photo of the IR Panther in the ambush scheme? What then is the overall dark base color? Olivgrun? Rotbraun? Any thoughts?

I wonder about this especially after seeing the color photos of a retrieved Panther schurzen on another forum that appears to be a base of Rotbraun with Dunkelgelb and Olivgrun sprayed over it.

All that said, I am in agreement that the notion of red oxide components or paint schemes is very likely inaccurate (as much as I might wish otherwise). That said, it seems a contentious and emotional topic for some with no small amount of "You can't prove it didn't happen, so that proves it did happen" sort of "logic" surrounding it. [ducking] Me, I'm merely interested in getting at the truth, no matter what it might be.

As I am also interested in this question I wrote a mail to the Patton Museum in Fort Knox which has been answered today as follow:

"Sir:

When our Panther tank arrived at the Museum in the late 1940s it was painted just as you say. It was repainted in the 1970s and the original paint scheme was lost. I have attached one of the few color photographs that exist of the original camouflage (taken in the early 1960s) The stenciling on the front slope was applied in Germany and is the original US shipping markings. I hope that this is of some use.

Charles Lemons
Curator, Patton Museum"

Many thanks to Mister Charles Lemons!

And here is the photo he sent me


(That was the question I asked: "Dear Sirs,

most probably you have been asked this question very often:

Were red oxid primer (RAL 8013) applied/used as some kind of camo scheme on German Panther tanks?

I have read that you (have) exhibit(ed) a Panther with green stripes on red oxid (the so called "Stachus Panther").

Any kind of response is very appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

Best regards

Marco Sari")

Gentlemen
I like to look at it this way. Our hobby is an art some of that is based on factual evidence and some on artistic interpitation and some on just plain creativity.
I have seen some outstanding works on this site as well as at shows where and odd road wheel, fender or barrel is shown in primer and also primer in the camo scheme and they are just that outstanding works of art
We all like to be as acurate as possible but lets face it life is short and we should build what we think looks interseting as well as acurate, is going to be a mix.
Who knows what some bleary eyed over worked, under paid, factory worker let roll out of the factory on any given day and the shame of it all, no one took a photo, darnn! nobody will ever know
"Smile for the birdy Hanns, oh and did you forget to paint the toilet paper holders green again"