Well I got my MM Euromilitaire special in Yesterday. Since I can't get it locally (none of the bookshops in my area stocks it) and it is the only MM mag I use to get a relative from England send me the copy and... WOW was I dissapointed.
I somehow had high expectations of it but to be very honest it was crap. The picture quality is marginally at best, The printing quality was not too best either but that is probably because of the cheap paper used to print this "Special edition" on. I use better quality paper to roll my cigarettes in then what was used for this Euromilitair special. The Ink of the press made the paper crinkle and caused the colors to bleed which made the already not that brilliant quality of the pictures more crappy.
Since this was the only puclication allowed to print pictures of the Euromilitair due to their ban of other mags I really had high hopes they would come up with a really brilliant magazine. But alas... Nothing is more true. It is just a piece of rubbish. The so called special edition has the appearance of one of those cheap office stuff catalogs.
So yeah this will pretty much be my last MM Special I'll ever get. I hope for their own good that they will do a bit more their best to satisfy their customers because this piece of crap was just a sad sad excuse for a "Special edition".
Dioramas
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
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MM Euromilitair Special
FAUST
#130
Joined: June 07, 2002
KitMaker: 8,797 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 01:10 AM UTC
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 01:47 AM UTC
I saw it the other day and thumbed thru it (carefully) and completely agree. Good to know the instamatic is still a useful tool amongst certain publishers.... 
This post was removed.
Henk
Joined: August 07, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 03:24 AM UTC
They are even complaining on the MM website. Not only that, the thread is still up...
http://www.militarymodelling.com/forum/forummessages.asp?dt=1&UTN=8134&last=1&V=6&SP=
It will be interesting to see what the response will be of the editors of those Print Magazines who were told they could not publish pictures...
http://www.militarymodelling.com/forum/forummessages.asp?dt=1&UTN=8134&last=1&V=6&SP=
It will be interesting to see what the response will be of the editors of those Print Magazines who were told they could not publish pictures...
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 03:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It will be interesting to see what the response will be of the editors of those Print Magazines who were told they could not publish pictures...
Yeah, but ALL these MM specials are the same - premium price for the same lousy printing and photo-quality...
This has also come up:
Quoted Text
Firstly, there was NOBODY kept out of the hall. Everybody who wanted to take photographs was allowed to take photographs.
Also, let's be clear about this, other magazines that paid for a stand at the show had that stand there to sell their own magazine and other products from manufacturers that they carry. They did not attend and pay for a stand merely to take photographs.
Oh dear, there are a few magazine editors I know might just disagree with that...
dobon68
Joined: June 19, 2007
KitMaker: 392 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 07:45 AM UTC
It seems to me that the editors of MM magazine and their website seem to think that any thing after 1945 is not worth covering. In the Euro Militaire 100 page special I think only 3 post 1945 subjects were covered. So either I'm in a very small minority who like to model more modern stuff or those of us who do model modern stuff and not very good and thus don't warrant having photos published. 
I'm sure it couldn't be that the staff at MM are biased 
I'm sure it couldn't be that the staff at MM are biased 
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 08:07 AM UTC
The saga continues then with the issue of a 3rd rate publication!
Funny I thought all the other Editors were expressly told that they couldn't take pics, seems the story is changing, I'll be interested to hear what they have to say about the latest statement shown above.
Very disappointing from the consumers point of view and lacking in proper coverage of subject matter by the sound of it. Won't be getting my money.
Al
Funny I thought all the other Editors were expressly told that they couldn't take pics, seems the story is changing, I'll be interested to hear what they have to say about the latest statement shown above.
Very disappointing from the consumers point of view and lacking in proper coverage of subject matter by the sound of it. Won't be getting my money.
Al
Kuno-Von-Dodenburg
Joined: February 20, 2007
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Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 11:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextFirstly, there was NOBODY kept out of the hall. Everybody who wanted to take photographs was allowed to take photographs.
Also, let's be clear about this, other magazines that paid for a stand at the show had that stand there to sell their own magazine and other products from manufacturers that they carry. They did not attend and pay for a stand merely to take photographs.
With an ability to spin things like that, Mr. Brannigan ought to be a Government Minister.
Note that he also said this:
Quoted Text
A decision was however taken at the Senior company level within 'My Hobby Store' not to allow the setting up of photo studios and moving models around.
And surely that's tantamont to admitting (in a roundabout way) that while rival publications were still (technically) being "allowed" to take photos, they were having their style cramped to such a degree that they were reduced to jostling with the Great Unwashed (i.e. us lot
) and taking opportunistic snapshots like the rest of us, rather than being given the opportunity to get some decent pro shots worthy of publication in a glossy mag.Just my interpretation.
- Steve
rinaldi119
Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 375 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 03:11 PM UTC
I added my 2 cents to the MM thread, I doubt it stays up there for long. I would have said a lot more details and of the decision if they allowed more than 1500 characters for each post.
Neither Vinnie nor Ken have ever offered any thanks for the years of free print coverage they've received (David Parker deserves a medal in my opinion for his specials) or apologies to any of us other magazines in light of the sudden decision, which did hit us in the pocketbook dearly with no ability to recover those costs. That is actually illegal in the States. Proper notice must be given or costs are to be refunded. You cannot prevent a business from earning money at an event in which you host or have invited them to operate at without just cause.
This is the first I've seen him speak about this turn of events. Toeing the company line I see, but it just sounds like bad karma to me.
Best,
Mike
Neither Vinnie nor Ken have ever offered any thanks for the years of free print coverage they've received (David Parker deserves a medal in my opinion for his specials) or apologies to any of us other magazines in light of the sudden decision, which did hit us in the pocketbook dearly with no ability to recover those costs. That is actually illegal in the States. Proper notice must be given or costs are to be refunded. You cannot prevent a business from earning money at an event in which you host or have invited them to operate at without just cause.
This is the first I've seen him speak about this turn of events. Toeing the company line I see, but it just sounds like bad karma to me.
Best,
Mike
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 08:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
It seems to me that the editors of MM magazine and their website seem to think that any thing after 1945 is not worth covering. In the Euro Militaire 100 page special I think only 3 post 1945 subjects were covered. So either I'm in a very small minority who like to model more modern stuff or those of us who do model modern stuff and not very good and thus don't warrant having photos published.
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't (with respect) think this is much of an issue. I think the real problem is the (low) quality of the (not very) 'Special' and the process of putting as many barriers in place to prevent OTHER publications carrying out their responsibilities to their readers & subscribers....
@ Mike, I must admit to being surprised that your comments are STILL there (at least at the time of writing
) - miracles will never cease! FAUST
#130
Joined: June 07, 2002
KitMaker: 8,797 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 09:39 PM UTC
Ola Guys
Well allthough I can and do understand the viewpoints of the other publishing companies and magazines about now being lied to that they were allowed to take pictures at the show (but not in a photostudio because of the wonderfull CD from MM) I'm mostly talking from the readers point of view. The people that pay to get the magazine.. In this case the people that pay for some piece of rubbish with the quality office stuff suppliers bury you under for nothing (and toss in a coffeemachine for free if your order something). But what strikes me the most is the fact that by the big editor of MM the only thing that seemed to be important is more or less telling people there was no ban on photography and completely ignoring the fact that the whole MM Euromilitaire special was a terrible Joke.
Looking at the above quote from Mister Brannigan I simply see nothing being mentioned about the crap quality of the Special. Next to the fact that I really second that this man should be in politics.
What's really been said:
Yes other mags... you are allowed to take pictures. Just on the spot where the normal people will take pictures. NO you are not allowed to set up a photostudio to make some quality pictures for your magazine to publish. Because we want the scoop for our own mag... Instead we have this nice little CD for you. A nice CD with pictures of Euro 08... You may publish them later on after our Special is out.
hmmm let's see... one, two, three, four.... eight complaints about the quality of the Euromilitaire Special...... Weeeelllll Let's put on the ignore mode, he2ad stuck in the sand and pretend nothing has been said.
Any questions or complaints? Fab!!!... you are a good bunch. Love you all.
Winner of the Ostrich award 2008: Military Modelling
Well allthough I can and do understand the viewpoints of the other publishing companies and magazines about now being lied to that they were allowed to take pictures at the show (but not in a photostudio because of the wonderfull CD from MM) I'm mostly talking from the readers point of view. The people that pay to get the magazine.. In this case the people that pay for some piece of rubbish with the quality office stuff suppliers bury you under for nothing (and toss in a coffeemachine for free if your order something). But what strikes me the most is the fact that by the big editor of MM the only thing that seemed to be important is more or less telling people there was no ban on photography and completely ignoring the fact that the whole MM Euromilitaire special was a terrible Joke.
Quoted Text
Firstly, there was NOBODY kept out of the hall. Everybody who wanted to take photographs was allowed to take photographs.
A decision was however taken at the Senior company level within 'My Hobby Store' not to allow the setting up of photo studios and moving models around.
Also, let's be clear about this, other magazines that paid for a stand at the show had that stand there to sell their own magazine and other products from manufacturers that they carry. They did not attend and pay for a stand merely to take photographs.
Looking at the above quote from Mister Brannigan I simply see nothing being mentioned about the crap quality of the Special. Next to the fact that I really second that this man should be in politics.
What's really been said:
Yes other mags... you are allowed to take pictures. Just on the spot where the normal people will take pictures. NO you are not allowed to set up a photostudio to make some quality pictures for your magazine to publish. Because we want the scoop for our own mag... Instead we have this nice little CD for you. A nice CD with pictures of Euro 08... You may publish them later on after our Special is out.
hmmm let's see... one, two, three, four.... eight complaints about the quality of the Euromilitaire Special...... Weeeelllll Let's put on the ignore mode, he2ad stuck in the sand and pretend nothing has been said.
Any questions or complaints? Fab!!!... you are a good bunch. Love you all.
Winner of the Ostrich award 2008: Military Modelling
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 05:35 AM UTC
Mike (Rinaldi) has added this and the response has been notable for the refusal to answer any questions or make any attempt at clarification:
Quoted Text
"A decision was however taken at the Senior company level within 'My Hobby Store' not to allow the setting up of photo studios and moving models around."
This was the "official" reason the other mags were initially given--ie. it was a "liability" issue in case a model was damaged in the photography process. We knew then it was just BS to keep us out of the room. I was alluding to the fact that it took some further serious discussions with Hussein to get to the truth of the matter, which is the real shame of the event.
The way in which you and your company have gone about this situation is a real black eye to the hobby in my opinion. I've not heard a single word mentioned as to any sort of resolution or compromise or anything to reconnect the dots. Euro Militaire, the contestants, the manufacturers (who are affected by the loss of coverage), and the modeler/reader all deserve much better than this.
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 06:34 AM UTC
Sounds all to familiar to me.
I cancelled my subscription when I read what had happened, the whole thing was a disgrace.
Al
I cancelled my subscription when I read what had happened, the whole thing was a disgrace.
Al
afvmodellermag
Joined: October 31, 2008
KitMaker: 23 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 10:35 PM UTC
I have not seen the special Issue myself but I did see the photos posted on the MM website which I thought were very poor - certainly not of the quality of the ones we usually take. I too was interested to see Mr Brannigan's response with no comment whatsoever regarding the poor quality product his readers were complaining about.
It is true that no one was kept out of the hall to take photos but what we were prevented from doing was using a tripod or any professional lighting equipment to take photos or of course move any of the models to do so. We were free to lean over the barriers with everyone else to try and grab shots or we were offered the MM CD with their 'high quality' images (after they had published). All this has nothing to do with paying for a stand in the hall or anything else except restricting access to rival publications who have been consistently promoting the show with their coverage. The organisers imposed this decision without consulting any of the press to my knowledge - which turned out to be an expensive decision for people like Mike an Pat and me who travelled a long way to cover the show as we have done in previous years. I was not prepared to try and scrape together a show report by leaning over barriers nor did I want to have photos of models selected by another magazine with a different readership. The whole point of our coverage had always been to show not only medal winners but other entries that we found interesting or inspiring and from a number of angles to give the best possible coverage. Did our reports promote the hobby and the show - well I hope so. Does it boost our sales? Not at all. Will we be at next years show? That remains to be seen but I feel we may better better directing our resources to KMK's show held the week before.
David Parker
Editor AFV Modeller Magazine
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 10:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The organisers imposed this decision without consulting any of the press to my knowledge - which turned out to be an expensive decision for people like Mike an Pat and me who travelled a long way to cover the show as we have done in previous years.
Every Editor who has commented publicly (or e-mailed me privately) has confirmed this as well. When we ran a previous thread on this topic (the week following EM) the response was frankly surprising.
Unfortunately, it's the thin end of the wedge in my opinion. How long before MM's parent company actually ban those who are the magazine's (or website's
) competitors from being 'officially' present at future EMs? Sign a non-disclosure agreement at the door? 
Gunny
Joined: July 13, 2004
KitMaker: 6,705 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 11:11 PM UTC
Unbelievable, again...it's interesting to read Vinnies comments at MM (and I don't travel over there often), and it looks to me that the "artful dodger" is still trying to pull the proverbial wool over everyone's eyes with this matter, as he has done with most in the past....what a shame, for sure...I really didn't expect anything less, as the head "yes man" would be expected to react, but come on people...open your eyes!
How could you ever support something like this again? A black eye on the hobby?....damn right, and an even BIGGER black eye on the entire Magicalia Corporation...what a joke.
How could you ever support something like this again? A black eye on the hobby?....damn right, and an even BIGGER black eye on the entire Magicalia Corporation...what a joke.
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Friday, October 31, 2008 - 12:12 AM UTC
Not only were the Magicalia employees controlling (well trying to, in a fairly cack-handed manner) during the EM show, now, looking carefully on the posts on the thread, it seems as if the more critical (informed?) posts by the likes of Michael Rinaldi are also getting 'spun' now, I don't know if there IS an 'Edit' feature for one's own posts on the 'Site, but I get the impression that the more 'anti-Magicalia' posts are also getting edited for content.... Two of the posts have got 'Edited: Date/Time' at the end...
Surely not?
Two of the posts have got 'Edited: Date/Time' at the end...Surely not?
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Friday, October 31, 2008 - 12:42 AM UTC
Oh, and I may be tilting at virtual windmills again, but i'm just waiting for the 'What's this got to do with building models'', litany to start.
Well, purely from my point of view as the Managing Editor for News on this Network, let me try and put a bit of editorial perspective on this rather sad saga.
Every year, I go to the Nuremberg Toy Fair, to try and report on what's coming, what's in the pipeline and (in the long term) establish relationships with manufacturers for the Network. This gets us much-needed advertising revenue, Review samples and allows us to get a voice with the manufacturers. Although Nuremberg is 'closed' to the enthusiast, it's open for the industry and the modeling press. It's probably the biggest show of its type in the world.
How do they treat the Press there? Like visiting royalty . A well-equipped press suite with on-line access and (with only a couple of exceptions) the manufacturers also bend over backwards to facilitate photos, etc.
Cut to Folkestone. Companies like AFV Modeller went there, paid hotel accomodation, transport costs and paid for a stand. The usual courtesy is that they're given 'access' to use their own portable lighting and tripod rigs to get the kind of high-quality images which are suitable for publication. Instead - well we ALL know what has happened...
So, apart from the on-line images, you as modelers DON'T have the right to see other people's work - despite the fact that (albeit indirectly) you're already paying for it thru magazines, some of the traders etc. who'll factor in a part of their budget every year to be at shows with the prestige of EM...
If this isn't resolved, next year's may well be the last. Pretty sad result for some ham-fisted 'spinning'....
Well, purely from my point of view as the Managing Editor for News on this Network, let me try and put a bit of editorial perspective on this rather sad saga.
Every year, I go to the Nuremberg Toy Fair, to try and report on what's coming, what's in the pipeline and (in the long term) establish relationships with manufacturers for the Network. This gets us much-needed advertising revenue, Review samples and allows us to get a voice with the manufacturers. Although Nuremberg is 'closed' to the enthusiast, it's open for the industry and the modeling press. It's probably the biggest show of its type in the world.
How do they treat the Press there? Like visiting royalty
. A well-equipped press suite with on-line access and (with only a couple of exceptions) the manufacturers also bend over backwards to facilitate photos, etc. Cut to Folkestone. Companies like AFV Modeller went there, paid hotel accomodation, transport costs and paid for a stand. The usual courtesy is that they're given 'access' to use their own portable lighting and tripod rigs to get the kind of high-quality images which are suitable for publication. Instead - well we ALL know what has happened...
So, apart from the on-line images, you as modelers DON'T have the right to see other people's work - despite the fact that (albeit indirectly) you're already paying for it thru magazines, some of the traders etc. who'll factor in a part of their budget every year to be at shows with the prestige of EM...
If this isn't resolved, next year's may well be the last. Pretty sad result for some ham-fisted 'spinning'....
Kelley
Joined: November 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,966 posts
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Posted: Friday, October 31, 2008 - 01:02 AM UTC
Well, I said it before in the original thread about this mess here, and I'll say it again, it's all about control, he has some and he wants even more. Anyone who has been around this site long enough will know what I'm talking about. He is the spin doctor, and he is in fact very good at deleting and editing to get things to look the way he wants them to. What's sad is all of the people out there who can't (or won't) see through the crap, and still think he's such a great chap. I guess all it takes is giving away enough free stuff . It's also sad to see that he's probably going to be in charge of a once very good publication at some point in the future.
Mike
. It's also sad to see that he's probably going to be in charge of a once very good publication at some point in the future.Mike
docdios
#036
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 1,998 posts
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Posted: Friday, October 31, 2008 - 01:36 AM UTC
What it could mean in this financially tightening world, other publications decide to take there wares to other shows, as with all of us they only have a small budget may be they will all sit down and decided to make another show better. It is a shame as i visited EM a couple of years ago and the models on display are above and beyond what i have seen at other shows it is or was the pinnacle of the hobby.
Sitting on the fence I can understand i suppose the reason for banning other publications, but the apparent lack of communication to these other magazines before they had taken there money can only be condoned.
It is a shame but it can only hurt the show in the long run, will these other magazines now attend or even run any form of advertising for the show, and lets be honest we modellers want to see our work in print and the opportunity for others to see it as well so should the other publications decided to attend say the KMK show and highlight it as they have done with EM previously where are all the modellers going to go? if the modellers leave so then will the traders and where in the end does it leave EM and that's not even considering the apparent lack of quality in the publication they have been touting as showing the best at the show.
It a real shame as my visit to EM left me with many pleasant memories, but it appears that money talks certainly in the short term.
Keith Forsyth
Sitting on the fence I can understand i suppose the reason for banning other publications, but the apparent lack of communication to these other magazines before they had taken there money can only be condoned.
It is a shame but it can only hurt the show in the long run, will these other magazines now attend or even run any form of advertising for the show, and lets be honest we modellers want to see our work in print and the opportunity for others to see it as well so should the other publications decided to attend say the KMK show and highlight it as they have done with EM previously where are all the modellers going to go? if the modellers leave so then will the traders and where in the end does it leave EM and that's not even considering the apparent lack of quality in the publication they have been touting as showing the best at the show.
It a real shame as my visit to EM left me with many pleasant memories, but it appears that money talks certainly in the short term.
Keith Forsyth
afv_rob
Joined: October 09, 2005
KitMaker: 2,556 posts
Armorama: 2,199 posts
Posted: Friday, October 31, 2008 - 01:43 AM UTC
Considering everything thats been said about this matter, this thread on MM particularly tickled me
http://www.militarymodelling.com/forum/forummessages.asp?UTN=7942&URN=11&dt=4&srchdte=0&cp=1&v=6&sp=
I guess there will be more people taking a blind eye to this crap. I for one wont be buying the 'special', theres plenty of high quality pics on the net thanks, and they dont cost me a penny.
http://www.militarymodelling.com/forum/forummessages.asp?UTN=7942&URN=11&dt=4&srchdte=0&cp=1&v=6&sp=
I guess there will be more people taking a blind eye to this crap. I for one wont be buying the 'special', theres plenty of high quality pics on the net thanks, and they dont cost me a penny.
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Friday, October 31, 2008 - 01:46 AM UTC
Rob, like putting a fox in charge of a sheep pen?
viper29_ca
Joined: October 18, 2002
KitMaker: 2,247 posts
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Posted: Friday, October 31, 2008 - 02:51 AM UTC
I don't understand where the "liability" issue comes into play.
Now I have never been to Euro, and unless I win a lottery or something, I probably never will. However other shows I have been at, where there has been press involved.....ie: Fine Scale Models, or Scale Auto, etc, etc. If they see something on the table worth photographing, they leave a little card beside the model saying they would like to photograph it, and it is then up to the modeler to go to the photographer of that magazine, in which he will have you fill out a release form for the photos, as well as a liability form in case the model gets damaged. Once that is all done, the modeler then goes out and brings the model to the photographer and places it where he is taking the pictures. The only time I have seen the photographer actually touch the model is if he turns it to get a better angle of the subject, and usually never even picks up the model at all.
When the photos are done, the modeler takes his entry and returns it to the table.
So their claim of liability in damaging the models is basically full of crap, the one that is taking all the chances is the modeler himself, as he is the one transporting the kit to and from the photographer, and the only time the photographer touches it, is to have a better angle in his photo booth of the subject at hand. If by chance the photographer breaks something, or leaves a fingerprint in the pigments, well that is why he got the modeler to sign the liability form, essentially making the photographer not liable for any damages. Not to mention that the release form that the photographer had him sign, allows the photographer and the magazine he is working for to publish said photos, as they see fit.
If I was ever at a show, and some magazine wanted to photograph my kit, then by all means.....but if then the show organizers said that no I can't allow that photographer take pictures of my kit because they have an agreement with another magazine to only allow photos of the show for them.....well tough luck for the show, as the model itself is my intellectual property, and I have the right to allow or dis-allow whom ever I want to take photos of it.
Having said that, if the show organizers had you sign a waiver when you entered, basically saying that you agree to abide by the rules and regs of the show organizers, then you may not have a leg to stand on, as how many of us read such things, especially going to a model show, but I don't think that was the case here. Unfortunately, it might set a precedent for future shows to follow, which would truly be unfortunate for our hobby!!!!
Now I have never been to Euro, and unless I win a lottery or something, I probably never will. However other shows I have been at, where there has been press involved.....ie: Fine Scale Models, or Scale Auto, etc, etc. If they see something on the table worth photographing, they leave a little card beside the model saying they would like to photograph it, and it is then up to the modeler to go to the photographer of that magazine, in which he will have you fill out a release form for the photos, as well as a liability form in case the model gets damaged. Once that is all done, the modeler then goes out and brings the model to the photographer and places it where he is taking the pictures. The only time I have seen the photographer actually touch the model is if he turns it to get a better angle of the subject, and usually never even picks up the model at all.
When the photos are done, the modeler takes his entry and returns it to the table.
So their claim of liability in damaging the models is basically full of crap, the one that is taking all the chances is the modeler himself, as he is the one transporting the kit to and from the photographer, and the only time the photographer touches it, is to have a better angle in his photo booth of the subject at hand. If by chance the photographer breaks something, or leaves a fingerprint in the pigments, well that is why he got the modeler to sign the liability form, essentially making the photographer not liable for any damages. Not to mention that the release form that the photographer had him sign, allows the photographer and the magazine he is working for to publish said photos, as they see fit.
If I was ever at a show, and some magazine wanted to photograph my kit, then by all means.....but if then the show organizers said that no I can't allow that photographer take pictures of my kit because they have an agreement with another magazine to only allow photos of the show for them.....well tough luck for the show, as the model itself is my intellectual property, and I have the right to allow or dis-allow whom ever I want to take photos of it.
Having said that, if the show organizers had you sign a waiver when you entered, basically saying that you agree to abide by the rules and regs of the show organizers, then you may not have a leg to stand on, as how many of us read such things, especially going to a model show, but I don't think that was the case here. Unfortunately, it might set a precedent for future shows to follow, which would truly be unfortunate for our hobby!!!!
muddyfields
Joined: February 04, 2006
KitMaker: 884 posts
Armorama: 622 posts
Posted: Friday, October 31, 2008 - 02:57 AM UTC
Hi
I always in he past have bought this issue without fail even buying back years off the likes of ebay so that I could see the quality of models on show. I've seen some photo's posted on web sites & thought that they were decent & couldn't wait for the special to come out to see what the proffessionals had taken, but from what people have been posting on various web sites I'd be better keeping my money to spend on my next kit.
oh well better down load the images that I like & print them off .
I always in he past have bought this issue without fail even buying back years off the likes of ebay so that I could see the quality of models on show. I've seen some photo's posted on web sites & thought that they were decent & couldn't wait for the special to come out to see what the proffessionals had taken, but from what people have been posting on various web sites I'd be better keeping my money to spend on my next kit.
oh well better down load the images that I like & print them off .
rinaldi119
Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 282 posts
Posted: Friday, October 31, 2008 - 03:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Not only were the Magicalia employees controlling (well trying to, in a fairly cack-handed manner) during the EM show, now, looking carefully on the posts on the thread, it seems as if the more critical (informed?) posts by the likes of Michael Rinaldi are also getting 'spun' now, I don't know if there IS an 'Edit' feature for one's own posts on the 'Site, but I get the impression that the more 'anti-Magicalia' posts are also getting edited for content....
Surely not?
Those edits on my post were indeed from me, I was just correcting spelling and grammar.
Also to clarify, the "liability" issue was just a cover. Magicalia was put to blame for the change of orders at the last second and any attempt to get the controlling manager on the phone to at least change it for this year's show was met with stone wall resistance. It was all very odd to say the least.
A lot has been made of the publishing fallout from this, but in truth many manufacturers were not pleased either. Gordon from Cromwell was visibly upset and knows full well AFV Modeller, MMiR, etc. go to great lengths to provide new release coverage at shows like this. You guys should have seen how pissed Pegaso was. They flew in a professional photographer to take new box art photos because Euro hosts so many top painters that arrive with their new products all done up, so the ripple affect may be more far reaching than Euro. Fortunately, this appears to be an anomaly and am doubtful any other major show will go down this road--knock on wood!
Best,
Mike
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