Thank you Alexander and Marco.

Well, I had some intermediary idea for the barrel. For now it's dark grey but I'm not sure how it will finish.

MArco, thanks for the comments on painting zimmeritless places. I have already thought about this and will defer it more than I did last time during the Bohemian End project. What I always have in mind is this picture:



Coming back to the very light dunkelgelb issue that James raised. I found on my PC the pictures I was talking about. Recently made public by life original color photos from WWII. Those pz IV look really pale

BTW nice red oxide picture






After remarks from James I have decided to not to delete some camouflage from the hull. I admit it's illusory and it will be visible even less than now but I thought about this kind freehand camouflage I saw on the pictures of Initial T II from Fkl 316.

The whole model got a first filter treatment. I used the MIG's ready to use filter P402 Brown for Desert Yellow. You may actually see the difference before / after on the last picture just on the limit of the hull (were the welds are). Just for the record the road wheels, sprockets and idlers got the same portion of that mixture.






thanks for watching

spit

Hi,

next update. Three more Mig's filters have been added. Yellow areas of models got a solid layer of Ochre for Grey Sand (P401), the green camo on the turret got a layer of Green for light green (P244). The next day when everything dried the whole tank was treated with Grey for Dark Yellow (P400).





Furthermore some the edges and some places where the zimmerit fall of where painted with a white/beige color. The red primer will be taken care of later on. With the same paint I added some small dots on the zimmerit to simulate small paste missings.




The green parts of the turret were covered with the first step for chipping, a mix of yellow, white and buff from vallejo. The rest of the yellow are will get the same painting but the base for chips will be even lighter in order to be visible.



spit

hi,

I'm back after a while.

For now three pictures of the turret. First of all I took off the decals from the turret and used stencils just to paint on the black outline;. IMHO it looks better now. I've made few chips some washes, pin washes etc.

thanks for looking







spit

Looking very good Pawel. Looking very good. Nice work.

That's one hell of a battered up KT. Excellent work, as usual!!!

John

Great work on that chipping!

Lars

P.S. How many more do you have in stash?

hi,

Thank you James & John I'm glad you like it.

Hi Lars,

thanks man, I'm really glad you like my work.




well, the red light is on only two production turret type and one early turret (Herbert would be proud of me here ) It's crisis man! Luckily ... I have 4 kits on their way to my stash

thank you all guys

spit

Hi pawel
Good to see the tiger b is coming along nicely.I've moved on to all things modern for the moment but as always its great to see your build logs.
neil.........................

thanks Neil I'm glad to have you among my "readers"

Well another up date. The upper hull got the same treatment of washes and scratches as the turret. The wheels are pretty finished and tracks need few more touches.
The zones with the red oxide have been treated with a metallic pigment. Don't know if it looks good but I just don't fell the thing (just like with the bohemian end...). So I know it may be "so, so"...

few pics

Pawel, I'm enjoying watching your WIP on this build. Kind of a along the same line as the E-100 I'm building and posting here. Love the weathering and chipping, I haven't had a chance to pick up any of the Mig products yet but the new filters they have look very good from what you've done so far on the tiger.

Mark

thanks Mark, your E100 is just great

just two pics of few traces of rust I decided to add on the exhaust shields I know less is more but... just couldn't resist





spit

Pavel,

I have been watching this build for a while now, and have held off commenting just to see where you were taking it...

An admirable effort, for sure. I admire your bold, imaginative sense of adventure here with this build. The painting and weathering are very competently done, and the chipping is very well renderd as well.

Some criticism, if I may?

I'm not "feeling" the zimmerit destruction, because I can't see how you could rationalize it. I dont see how you could explain it with any plausibility? Particularly because you haven't even indicated ant shell hits, or even bullet holes to explain the large chips?

Look at this photo of a destroyed Panther which ws pulled out of a river near in the Cherkassy pocket. . Do you see how even with having been blown up, there is really relatively little chipping?

I also think that you have to figure out a way to spackle or add in some other fashion, the remnants of the zimmerit coating over those large, shocking areas of red. Look at how, in the photo, the zimmerit still clings to the hull sections where it has chipped.. Even in those Panzer IV photos, that primer is not quite that garishly "red". It would not have broken off in pristine, clean blocks, leaving immaculate primer underneath.

That glaring red primer is one thing which really detracts from the look of the build, in my opinion. Perhaps some heavy application of some appropriately colored weathering powders, or even better, rough putty over these sections could serve to "rough them up", and then obscure some of these garish red patches with some careful, creative painting?

Nice work Pawel!

The weathering keeps getting better and better.

I do think the rust on the exhaust deflectors is a bit too rough. Maybe carefully sanding it and then repaint it will work?

Lars

Hi,

Karl, thank you for your comments, I'm always opened for constructive discussion.




First of all I must say that that he zimmerit is not really my thing. I just don't feel it well. I haven't added any traces of shell hits or so. There are many pictures of zimmerit without any visible shell/bulelts impacts. Maybe just shrapnels hitting the armor were enough to get it off. Don't know. Your comments are right but I just looked on another pictures. But I take your comments seriously.





Ahh just can't find this picture... but you can find pictures of vehicles (often knocked out) with relatively big areas of zimmerit missing.






I think you're right here. I should have left some splashes of zimmerit here and ther over the big red areas. I have added some last night and I'm not really sure if it's better, worse or just like before. Like I sad I just can't fell it. They are not completely weathered yet to match the other parts of the hull. A brown wash will follow. 3 pics, what do you think (or anyone else)?










yeap the red oxide is just not so good as it should be. I think that's where my skills are ending up. if the zimmerit will require more work I may also repaint the red areas.

Thanks for taking time writing all of this. I really appreciate your comments as they do go in the right direction.

Lars,

yeap I just left the rust inside the deflectors, the outside was repaint with a yellowish paint. Something.... lighter will be applied

thank you both

spit

hi pawel
If you repaint the red areas what colour will you paint them?In my opinion don't repaint, i'm sure with your experiance that you could tone the red oxide down with oils or pigments.
neil......

Hello Pawel,

"...what do you think (or anyone else)?"



I do not know if I belong to 'anyone else' too as I have posted the same things for five weeks which has not been considered.


Now Karl came along and the things I mentioned have been realised.


Maybe I repeat it again: I would break off the hull red area with the Zim-spots (which I also recommmended) by painting it in the colour(s) stated.

The thing is that damages seemed to stop at the hull red coat like it is a magic mantlet though it is a simple colour which also should show scratches, chippings etc.

Pavel, try this--use a large, soft brush, and just simply "stab" at he red-primed parts with a gray/tan color. The, if you have any pastel powders, mix the same color (Or close to it) and dust them on in a varied coat of light and heavy application, to simulate left-behind spackle. Or better yet--can you get some MIG acrylic resin? Mix up some gray/tan "Mud" from the acrylic resin, and apply it like a mud spackle to the red parts.

Or, perhaps,you can use thinned putty--Squadron white putty, or something like that--and do the same thing--thin it with acetone and dab it on haphazardly, covering most of the red in places. You can then over-dab it with the aforementioned gray/tan color. Touch it up to tie it in with the edges of the chipped zimmerit.

I do agree with you about areas of large zimmerit missing of course, but in my experience, most vehicles I've seen with that problem were knocked out, and had lost them because of concussion hits, or fire. But that is not really the main issue with what I feel is the problem here; it is in fact the too-glaring red primer. If you can mute that a little more, I think that your panzer will look much more menacing!

Impressive work! Camouflage you've done this very successfully and it is spectacular. And above all the work you've done at the tank barge. But one question the imperfections of the green paint on the turret of the tank has retouched?

Hi Marco,

thanks for for your comments and don't get upset. It takes some time to see thing differently. As a matter of fact I have already scribed off what I added.... didn't really like it.

Karl,

what I had today was only matt acrylic varnish + mig pigment. I tried to do something and came up with this result







so?

Felix,

thank you for your comments. I haven't repainted the green camouflage on the turret. everything I would try would be visible afterwards. I think with all filters, washes it looks good.

Just one thing about the red under zimmerit areas. I wonder why nobody ask this guy to change anything and his beautiful T II was in AFV Modeller short tracked

spit

Well Pawel,


I would not care about what others said about other's model.


I for myself do not.


Things/ideas which are partially interesting are transformed whilst performing my own model.


Sometimes I think: Nice but that I can do better - at least I want to try it.


The modeler of the Tiger you refered to forgot what from Zimmerit really consists of: A concrete paste applied on steel.

And due to its self-adherent character it is not very realistic that it spalled that cleanly.


When you finish your model you have got the knowledge/certainty that you have got a better because more realistic tank.



BTW: I was not upset but amazed

If nothing else you can say this tiger made you learn quite a bit. I think the tank looks much better right now.

Hi Pawel,

I've been away from this thread for a while and it seems i've missed a lot!

No offence, but it seems like you lost your way a bit with this build. I think that in your strive for authenticity, the comments here have conflicted a little with your artistic vision and the model has suffered slightly.
Now don't be disheartened, its a great build and I don't want to knock anyone for commenting, every post has been intelligent and well thought through.

I'm by no means and expert when it comes to zimmerit, but I beleive that is is not always portrayed correctly and there is a lack of information for us modellers on the subject.

Pawel my freind, I know exactly the look you wanted to create and that Tiger B on planet armour you linked to is a lovely build, and I can see where you are drawing your inspiration. May I also direct you to this build which perhaps has the exact look you were going for:

Bergepantherflak

However, I'm not a fan of the look of the zimmerit on this model, despite thinking the rest of the build is a work of art.
My main reason is just that far too much zimmerit is missing (and I think the primer is too pink). On some of your panels perhaps 40% is missing, and I think perhaps this is the reason that you are encountering problems with the bare areas, and what colour they should be.
Over such big spaces you need to show the kind of zimmerit layering colours described in the posts here to be historically accurate.
As has been mentioned, the type of damage needed to show this lack of zimmerit, the tank would have to have been peppered with 20mm or something to lose so much and in such large chunks.
I know its perhaps too late, but more zimmerit and less primer could solve your problems.

When I build my Stug IV if you remember, I approached the zimmerit chipping with the following philosophy:
I applied putty to make the zimmerit, and tried to apply it everywhere it should go. However, thats obviously not always possible, and some areas will get missed, the zimmerit will not be thick enouigh, flake off or be damaged in some way during construction. When painting I then painted any of the above areas in the raw zimmerit colour (beleived by me to be a light sand at the time, though perhaps it should have been grey?) and anywhere the plastic showed through (ie. no putty at all) got painted primer red, the largest area (rear fender) also got battle damage to explain the absence of the zimmerit.

Now I know that I wasn't going for the same look and that it's a bit late to be saying all this now, but I think they ket thing you are missing is the parts that are not perfect zimmerit and not bare metal, which should be quite a large proportion of a damaged area. Something probably best done during the application process, though I see you have attempted to remedy this during recent posts. Your last post is almost there in my opinion, I'd fill those grey areas now with peices of undamaged zimmerit and some bits of primer red that would then give the impression of 'depth' to the zimmerit.

I hope this all makes sense and you don't take offence, you are a talented modeller and this will be a great build once you've overcome this issue.
Likewise I don't want to offend anyone who has posted, these are just my own views.

Keep up the work mate, what you are doing is striving for perfection and you will reach it!

James

Hi Pawel sorry been away for so long caught up with this last night. Nice to see you've taken on board Karl and Marco's comments on the gastly load of Rot base cote. Todays post as got you right back on track. I'm going with James on this one, maybe the hull was just alittle to battered. to much Zim missing. Dont worry I still love the Hybrid and like James said maybe add some more Flakey Zim/ colour to the Damaged areas and you've nailed the the Battered Beast. I really like the Turret great contrast to the hull,which is what this Hybrid as been all about. Spit "The Force is with you" never forget I Know you'll make this Hybrid sing to the sound of battle LOL Geraint One more thing maybe the armoured exhaust shields are a little rough, maybe a slight swipe with a sanding stick Keep up the great work

Pawel,

I think that that looks MUCH better, and would urge you to continue with the look around the rest of the tank!

James has also made some excellent points as well--the idea of "layering" the zimmerit. I would recommend exactly what he said about doing a little more work on layering on the paste that you applied to the red areas. I would add some red chips now, in some of the areas, and even try some mapping of wash colors--a little bit of raw umber, and some grays to give it some chromatic depth and texture.

You're definitely on the right path now. Good for you for not giving up on this, and for persevering in what will be a great model with a great story to tell!

thank you all for your kind comments and feedback. Your help is mostly appreciated.

Marco,

Thank you for your advices. My point about hearing people, and taking under consideration what they say is to learn as much as possible. Even if some of my models seem to be like I believe I still have a lot to learn and the best way to do it is to take advice from people who have more knowledge or skills or just some good ideas about a specific aspect. Anyway, thanks for your help. I hope to see soon some paint on your gorgeous initial TII.

Jon,

thanks, I try learn as much as possible. I'm glad you like it.

James,

It's great to see you back and posting my friend. I was wondering if you were already chasing the kangaroos far away from the old continent
You know me, I always take well any constructive comments. And yours are always in that line. From the beginning I knew that it will be a pain working on the hull because of the zimmerit (or rather the places without it ), You must remember the small area on the Bohemian End... comparing to this it was like a joke.




oh yes I really liked the red areas with the yellowness of the hull. It was really good looking for me (even if incorrect ). One day I will make another one with pure artistic vision

I agree that a lot of zimmerit is missing. Is it too much. Don't know maybe. But I've looked some knocked out zimmerited vehicles and some of them where showing a big quantity of the paste missing. Just to remind to everyone that the idea (crazy and improbable like Herbert made it clear enough LOL) for the hull was a knocked out vehicle transported back to the plant and put back into the service with a new turret. If from the beginning I would go for another colour than red it would not be so big issue. But at least we have some things to discuss
I know that putting some pieces of zimerrit here and there would be good. The issue is that I've done it few days ago and wasn't not happy about the "small zimmerit islands". I'm sure that the issue was the maker but I looked really strange. I don't know if the impression would be different if those spots were surrounded not by the "red sea". Maybe I'll give it a try. A lot of work ahead LOL. Thanks for your feedback mate. I made myself a cup of coffee before starting reading! I hope to see some more progress on your M8A1.

Geraint,

Hi mate! thanks for the comments. Great to see you back. I'll makes some modifications to those damned red hull areas. The shields... it's funny while working on them I was sure to repaint them and start from the beginning. I think it's called "Kamikaze Syndrome" At least I know that the rustall thing works really well

thanks

Karl,

thanks for your feed back and advices! I must say I took a good look on you recent models you posted. And I must say they're really master class ones. What you did with the braille scale Jagdpanther I'm not able to acieve on 1/35 kits... really great job.
I'm not really convinced about the materials I used for the grey surfaces. All I had was flat varnish and pigments. It means the thing is very fragile and it will terribly soak anything I put on it (wash, paint etc.). Of course I could spray a layer of another flat varnish but don't know if it's the right direction. The texture I got is really flat. And even if on the pictures it may look not so bad I'm still not convinced. I haven't found any acrylic resin in the local artist's shop so I ordered the one from Mig you were talking about. It was sent from UK today so I hope I'll get it beginning of the next week. I will give it a try. How does it work? After drying, It becomes hard like a resin? I would mix some paint and or pigments to get the right colour. The big cat will lie for few days now mean while I'll try make some progress on the Pz IV of mine.

thank you all again

spit