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DML's Turn - Yet Another Sd.Kfz 7/2
jimbrae
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 03:29 AM UTC
The models of the Sd.Kfz 7/2 will soon be outstripping the actual numbers constructed, with this, the latest from DML. Images of 6542 - Sd.Kfz.7/2 3.7cm (Flak 37) with Armored Cab, can be seen:

Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!

H_Ackermans
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 03:48 AM UTC
It's a shame no images of the 2 armoured cabs are shown, I'm interested to see the differences.
Outerarm
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 04:31 AM UTC
Whatever your views on DML / Trumpeter I have to admit I'm very pleased to see so many new releases despite the economic conditions. Both the Dragon and Trumpeter versions of these kits look excellent and even though I'm not an Axis or even WWII modeller, I've very tempted to get one of these.

Cheers,
Ian
jimbrae
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 04:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Whatever your views on DML / Trumpeter I have to admit I'm very pleased to see so many new releases despite the economic conditions.



As am I. However, although competition is a great thing, it can start to look silly when so there are so many releases of the same variant.

This weeks total: No less than THREE Sd.Kfz 7/2s
TWO Sherman III (Direct Vision Hulls)


Now, no-one is telling me that there AREN'T other vehicles which don't deserve the 'full-treatment' from DML and Trumpeter?
bill_c
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 04:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This weeks total: No less than THREE Sd.Kfz 7/2s
TWO Sherman III (Direct Vision Hulls)


Now, no-one is telling me that there AREN'T other vehicles which don't deserve the 'full-treatment' from DML and Trumpeter?


This looks to me like the usual corporate warfare between these two....

I see it as "two steps forward, one step back" because:

1.) Accuracy issues with the Trumpeter 7/1 and the "wrong" trailer
2.) A less-detailed engine in the DML and NO trailer
3.) Trumpeter releasing two 7/2 kits based on differences in the GUN and not early and late war versions
4.) No one getting the trailer right.

I realize I'm being nit-picky and concede as much, but when so much is said about this or that company's offerings, it's important to remember that BOTH of them are leaving out details, getting things wrong, and in general making discussions like this one a lot of fun!

And if both companies are lurking here, all this sound and fury has so far failed to move me to buy ANY of these kits. I'll be curious to see if any of them sells as well as the Tasca DV Sherman did. Is there are real pent-up demand for Sd.Kfz.7 variants?
yeahwiggie
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 04:57 AM UTC
*YAWN*

Here we go again....

It is about time some company would put their plastic where their CAD's are...
They will not win any prizes for originality either...
And it sure makes sence rushing a kit into production (if that ever happens at all) and then get slaughtered for getting ot wrong....

yep, it all makes sence to me....


NOT!
jimbrae
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 05:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I realize I'm being nit-picky and concede as much, but when so much is said about this or that company's offerings, it's important to remember that BOTH of them are leaving out details, getting things wrong, and in general making discussions like this one a lot of fun!



Spare a thought for me while you're at it. Just how easy is it t report on the same 2/3 vehicle(s) releases over no less than 4 different News Reports? There is an overwhelming temptation to simply list the vehicle and leave a blank space to put your chosen manufacturer's name in...
johhar
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 05:14 AM UTC
Crew figures for either?
Still waiting...
Maybe that's where DML will put the trailers like with kit 6368.
Would make the kit + crew around US$80.
bill_c
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 05:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Spare a thought for me while you're at it. Just how easy is it t report on the same 2/3 vehicle(s) releases over no less than 4 different News Reports? There is an overwhelming temptation to simply list the vehicle and leave a blank space to put your chosen manufacturer's name in...


Hey, I hear ya.

But generating controversy also theoretically generates sales. We all know the old adage: "bad press is better than no press at all."

It DOES make it hard to say much intelligently, though, other than "have at it, boys and girls."

Overall, though, it's exciting to see a very popular and important vehicle's available kits be shoved into the present day. I wonder what will become of all the Tamiya kits still in LHS and Internet seller's inventories?
bill_c
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 05:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Crew figures for either?
Still waiting...
Maybe that's where DML will put the trailers like with kit 6368.


It would be nice, especially with Heer/SS and LW versions. Given the way DML is going (e.g., multiple heads for their Commonwealth release), perhaps they could include a 2 in 1 set?

The trailer may be a minor issue for most modellers. After all, the Tamiya kit has existed for 30+ years with no trailer, and only some minor resin companies have stepped into that breach. With so many photos showing just the vehicle, I imagine that lots of buyers don't give a rat's #$@ if the kit has a trailer or if it's the wrong one.
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 10:01 AM UTC
Their graphics department must have worked overtime cranking out the new images so fast.
Tarok
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 10:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Crew figures for either?



There are plenty of figures on the market which could be used for these vehicles. DML alone have several Flak and artillery crews, as well as driver figures.

Sheesh, I hear this so often. Whatever happened to converting figures?
TankCarl
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 11:08 AM UTC
I would enjoy this 2 company competition to extend into M32's. So many variations there.
bill_c
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 11:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

There are plenty of figures on the market which could be used for these vehicles. DML alone have several Flak and artillery crews, as well as driver figures.


That's a good point, Rudi. We've become so accustomed to being spoon-fed our models.

Quoted Text

Sheesh, I hear this so often. Whatever happened to converting figures?


With all the premium heads and hands out there, it shouldn't be hard.

The only issue would be uniforms since the WL uniform is slightly different from the WH/SS one.

My own personal feeling, though, is that Dragon has not put the same sculpting elan and energy into its gun crews it has into its soldier figure sets. The crew for the FLAK 36, for example, is rather static.

Also, what folks may not realize is: these guns had BIG crews. I would have to check, but I think the crew for the 7/1 is 7 men. Perhaps someone else can chime in and get the exact figure, but it's not 3-4 dudes with shells in their hands.
Tarok
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 11:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The only issue would be uniforms since the WL uniform is slightly different from the WH/SS one.

Also, what folks may not realize is: these guns had BIG crews. I would have to check, but I think the crew for the 7/1 is 7 men. Perhaps someone else can chime in and get the exact figure, but it's not 3-4 dudes with shells in their hands.



Yes, but the differences in uniform and pose are not so vast that making the corrections are beyond the skills of most modellers. You have to agree it's pretty funny that modellers will spend hours and sometimes tonnes of cash correcting a $70 kit, but won't take a few minutes to repose or sharpen details on 1 figure from an $8 plastic figure set
bill_c
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 02:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

You have to agree it's pretty funny that modellers will spend hours and sometimes tonnes of cash correcting a $70 kit, but won't take a few minutes to repose or sharpen details on 1 figure from an $8 plastic figure set


I admit it!

Part of that comes from being intimidated by the human form. It's easy to work on something inanimate, but scarier when it's supposed to be a person.
cach7
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 03:40 PM UTC
Does anyone know if Trump is still going to produce the cargo version of the 7/1?
Tarok
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 04:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Does anyone know if Trump is still going to produce the cargo version of the 7/1?



You should probably ask that in the the recent Trumpeter Trumpeter - MORE Sd.Kfz 7 Variants news article.
Bodeen
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Posted: Saturday, May 02, 2009 - 03:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

You have to agree it's pretty funny that modellers will spend hours and sometimes tonnes of cash correcting a $70 kit, but won't take a few minutes to repose or sharpen details on 1 figure from an $8 plastic figure set


I admit it!

Part of that comes from being intimidated by the human form. It's easy to work on something inanimate, but scarier when it's supposed to be a person.



Then there are those of us who have a couple of hours per week that we can truly devote to modeling and don't want to do conversions.....I usually replace the heads with Warriors, Hornet, Jaguar , Legend or Ultracast products...but I don't want to reposition arms, legs, torsos, etc.
I recently (before all of these DML and Trumpeter announcements) bought a Tamiya Sd Kfz 7 (Zugkraftwagen)for twenty dollars and then added Modelkasten tracks, Tank Workshop wheels/tires, and an Eduard photo-etch set. Money-wise I would have been better off waiting for one of the new releases.

I am very happy that, after 30+ years of the old Tamiya offerings, we are actually getting a selection of new models.

I don't know if I heard the same grumblings about duplicate releases when AFV Club and Dragon were in the Sd Kfz 251 wars releasing all the Ausf. C/D versions at the same time.

Jim Rae...You don't know how appreciated you are on this site. You have set up a worldwide network of manufacturers who give us first looks and exclusive images at Armorama first. I understand your frustration with having to sift through all of the information and offerings but it really is a great help to us. THANK YOU!

Jeff

Abydos
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Posted: Saturday, May 02, 2009 - 04:14 PM UTC
this one looks awesome, an interesting built and future project
viper29_ca
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Posted: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 04:25 PM UTC
I get such a kick out of the nay sayers moaning on about the Trumpeter kit not having the "Right Trailer"

Is it not conceivable, that the German's used what they had? Are you going to sit here and tell me that the German's, in a time of war, didn't use everything at their disposal in fighting the Allies? Or am I led to believe that because they didn't have the "proper" trailer to send out with their 7/2, that the 7/2 sat there and couldn't be used?? They would have used whatever they had that was available, if it could haul ammo and could be attached to the vehicle...I am sure they used it!

bill_c
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Posted: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 03:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I get such a kick out of the nay sayers moaning on about the Trumpeter kit not having the "Right Trailer"


Laugh away, but those who study the matter say the photographic evidence doesn't lie.

Quoted Text

Is it not conceivable, that the German's used what they had?


Of course, and you're free to model this vehicle or that one in whatever format you wish. But the photographic evidence says that, when a trailer is present, the Trumpeter one is wrong. Fortunately the trailer is correct for a different configuration, but your best bet is to model the Wienermodelbau resin one.

Quoted Text

Or am I led to believe that because they didn't have the "proper" trailer to send out with their 7/2, that the 7/2 sat there and couldn't be used?? They would have used whatever they had that was available, if it could haul ammo and could be attached to the vehicle.


The trailers were equipped with drawers and lockers for the correct-sized ammo, they weren't empty bins you could just shove $%#^ into.

It's up to you. You can model it your way or you can model it the historical way. The choice is yours.
jimbrae
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Posted: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 03:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

get such a kick out of the nay sayers moaning on about the Trumpeter kit not having the "Right Trailer"



Well those that HAVE commented have done so for a reason. If the trailer can't be documented in THIS configuration, then the logical assumption is that it ISN'T correct.

Also, correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't this thread for discussion on the DML 7/1?
viper29_ca
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Posted: Friday, May 22, 2009 - 04:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Also, correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't this thread for discussion on the DML 7/1?



Your right Jim, it is on the Dragon version, I was commenting on the post (made by someone else) that brought up the fact that the trailer in the Trumpeter version is not the right trailer.

Just because photographic evidence apparently doesn't exist, doesn't mean they didn't use it. I am sure that there are quite a number of photos from the era that have never seen the light of day, or have been destroyed/lost since then.

This is a trailer that hauls 20mm ammo is it not? Looking at my Tristar Pz.1 AA with trailer, it looks to be the same trailer with it, as the Trumpeter kit.....so the Trumpeter kit having 4 - 20mm barrels, and the Tristar Pz.1 only one barrel......that they would have a different trailer for the 7/1? Both are 20mm ammo trailers.....common sense says that they would have used them on the 7/1.

I am all for accuracy, but this is splitting hairs, and a classic case of rivet counting in my book!
bill_c
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Posted: Friday, May 22, 2009 - 06:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Just because photographic evidence apparently doesn't exist, doesn't mean they didn't use it. I am sure that there are quite a number of photos from the era that have never seen the light of day, or have been destroyed/lost since then.


The burden is on you to produce evidence that counters the photographic record. I'm sure the Wehrmacht used light sabres or transporters, but there's no photos, it's just common sense they'd use whatever would work. Reductio ad absurdum.

Quoted Text

This is a trailer that hauls 20mm ammo is it not? Looking at my Tristar Pz.1 AA with trailer, it looks to be the same trailer with it, as the Trumpeter kit


It's hard to say. The Tristar is a modified Sd.Ah.51 meant for the single-barrel gun. The Vierling/quad version used an Sd.Ah. 52. You can learn all you want about trailers from this amazing site.

Quoted Text

.....so the Trumpeter kit having 4 - 20mm barrels, and the Tristar Pz.1 only one barrel......that they would have a different trailer for the 7/1? Both are 20mm ammo trailers.....common sense says that they would have used them on the 7/1.


We're talking about the Wehrmacht, not your opinion. Someone who's done the research says it's not a matter of common sense. Does that mean they were never mixed? Can't say that. But produce some evidence, or you're just blowing smoke.

Quoted Text

I am all for accuracy, but this is splitting hairs, and a classic case of rivet counting in my book!


Guilty as charged if it means I want accuracy. If your standards are lower, that's fine. But this isn't a matter of splitting hairs, it's a question of letting modelers know the facts. DML's halftracks don't even include a trailer, and IMO Trumpeter lost a chance to seriously skewer their rival by offering the correct trailer. But I'm sure lots of DML kits will sell and be built without the correct trailer or any trailer at all.
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