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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
Finishing and Weathering Sequence
SSGToms
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Posted: Friday, June 12, 2009 - 03:56 AM UTC
1) Acrylic camo paint
2) Acrylic clear gloss
3) Decals or dry transfers
4) Acrylic clear gloss
5) Overall oil washes
6) Acrylic clear flat
7) Oil panel washes (filters)
8) Oil pin washes
9) Oil drybrushing
10) Oil staining (dot method)
11) Chipping and scuffing
12) Pigments
13) Mount to base so nobody touches the pigments
210cav
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Posted: Friday, June 12, 2009 - 04:28 AM UTC
Matt-- how do you make your filter(color and mix ratio)? How do you apply it-- wide brush, narrow brush or AB?
thanks
DJ
SSGToms
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Posted: Friday, June 12, 2009 - 04:39 AM UTC
DJ,
My filter is a tinted thinner, about 5% paint to 95% thinner, sometimes 10% paint to 90% thinner, depending on the colors I am using.
I generally hold the surface to be treated horizontal and use a flat brush of the appropriate size.
scgatgbi
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Posted: Friday, June 12, 2009 - 05:59 AM UTC
Why gloss instead of matt or flat in the 1st two applications of clear coat? I know gloss if you're using waterslide decals, but if Dry Transfers are being used does it have to be gloss? is there a certain benefit from the gloss over the other 2 clears?

Sean
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Posted: Friday, June 12, 2009 - 06:09 AM UTC
Dry transfers adhere better to a smooth surface, too. The second gloss coat is to seal in the markings, protect them, and hide the edges on water-slide decals. Overall washes also flow better over a gloss coat.
ziggy1
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Posted: Friday, June 12, 2009 - 08:04 AM UTC
newbie here,
whats the difference between a filter, and an over- all wash? and how do you apply?
-ziggy
scgatgbi
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Posted: Friday, June 12, 2009 - 08:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

newbie here,
whats the difference between a filter, and an over- all wash? and how do you apply?
-ziggy


THis link'll help some with that.

http://missing-lynx.com/rareworld.htm

Sean
Pyromaniac
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Posted: Friday, June 12, 2009 - 09:37 AM UTC
this is pretty helpful. i usually drybrush before the overall wash, but i use acrylics. if you were using oils i guess the thinner for the wash would dissolve the drybrushing so you'd be better off doing it afterwards.
Jeeprider
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 05:30 AM UTC
Matt,

I notice in your list that you put oil washes before filters. Does it make any difference if you do them the other way round?

Andy
BigJon
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 06:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text


6) Acrylic clear flat
7) Oil panel washes (filters)
8) Oil pin washes
9) Oil drybrushing
10) Oil staining (dot method)


do you not find that the flat doesn't lend itself well to having washes over the top?

I always do my oil washes and such over a gloss, to get the capillary action on the go. I tend to reserve the flat for when more "Grip" is needed i.e just before the pigments.

Just curious... always wondering what to try next...
SSGToms
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 07:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Matt,

I notice in your list that you put oil washes before filters. Does it make any difference if you do them the other way round?

Andy

Andy,
Of course you can do the steps in any order that gives you the best results. Washes are stronger, like 80% thinner, and I want them to flow into all the corners and panel lines. So they flow better over a smooth, slippery gloss finish. Filters are weak, like 95% thinner, and I want them to stay where I put them on a flat panel, and they stay put best on a rough flat finish. Also a wash, being stronger, would overpower the filter effect.
SSGToms
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 07:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


6) Acrylic clear flat
7) Oil panel washes (filters)
8) Oil pin washes
9) Oil drybrushing
10) Oil staining (dot method)


do you not find that the flat doesn't lend itself well to having washes over the top?

I always do my oil washes and such over a gloss, to get the capillary action on the go. I tend to reserve the flat for when more "Grip" is needed i.e just before the pigments.

Just curious... always wondering what to try next...

Jon,
Again, whatever gives you the results you want is the right sequence for you. I like my filters and pin washes to stay where I put them, so I put them on a flat clear finish. Drybrushing takes better on a flat finish, and the brush dragging motion of the dot method needs to be applied on a flat finish so that you're not just wiping the dots off.
Tonyfr
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 07:52 AM UTC
This is really helpful. I did not think about using gloss before and after applying decals. I was going to just do flat at the end. Do you cover the entire model with gloss acrylic or just the areas where the decals are going to be applied?

Thanks for the help,
Tony
SSGToms
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 08:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This is really helpful. I did not think about using gloss before and after applying decals. I was going to just do flat at the end. Do you cover the entire model with gloss acrylic or just the areas where the decals are going to be applied?

Thanks for the help,
Tony

I apply both gloss coats to the entire model for two reasons.
1) I have judged models that only had the gloss under the decals and even with a final flat coat you could see the smoother areas under the markings. Not good.
2) The second gloss coat protects the decals and hides their edges. You want to bring the whole model surface up to the same level as the gloss over the decals so the edges disappear and they take on a painted-on look. It's on a microscopic level but you can really see the difference.
Tonyfr
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 09:24 AM UTC
Thanks for the answer. Makes sense after you explained. Good thing I have a new bottle of Future!
elvis3006
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Posted: Sunday, June 28, 2009 - 10:26 AM UTC
hi guys,who makes a good acylic clear flat ?
Ankmutant_George
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Posted: Sunday, June 28, 2009 - 11:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

hi guys,who makes a good acylic clear flat ?


I use Gunze H20 Flat Clear. Never had any problems with it...
tread_geek
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Posted: Sunday, June 28, 2009 - 11:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

hi guys,who makes a good acylic clear flat ?


I've tried Dullcote, Humbrol flat clear and Modelmaster 4636 Flat Clear Acryl. I've had little to no consistent luck with either the Dullcote or the Humbrol. The Model Master has consistently worked for me. OBTW, I've tried all with brush and airbrush. The MM worked the best.

Cheers,
tread_geek
SSGToms
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Posted: Monday, June 29, 2009 - 03:07 PM UTC
I agree, Model Master Acryl flat clear is very good right out of the bottle.
walkingcorpse
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Posted: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 10:37 AM UTC
is vallejo matt acryllic varnish any good? I was planning to use it to seal my models once all the weathering was done...would this effect pigments and oil washes that had alreay been done?

probably a stupid question but hey, im a n00b
SSGToms
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Posted: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 07:31 PM UTC
Yes, Vallejo matte is very good from what people report. It's fine to put it over all the oil washes, etc. but if you put it over pigments it will darken the pigment and you will loose all the dusty dirty effect. It's best to do pigments last and leave them exposed.
walkingcorpse
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Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 03:15 AM UTC
so you dont need to seal the pigments then?
SSGToms
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Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 05:36 AM UTC
No. The best thing to do is to mount the model on a base so that you don't have to handle the model itself. Pick it up and move it by the base. The pigments will stay where you put them just fine without a sealer.
JimMrr
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Posted: Sunday, November 22, 2009 - 02:01 PM UTC
I used to use acrylic flat coats until I had one go milky on me and ruin my finish...now I use Laquer base flats..
I prefer the Acrylic coat for obvious health reasons..I used Model master Acryl with Isopropyl alcohol as a thinner....did I use wrong thinner? Ive been using Iso for years and never had a problem..Id prefer not to use laquer base paints if I can avoid them..
SSGToms
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Posted: Monday, November 30, 2009 - 07:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I used to use acrylic flat coats until I had one go milky on me and ruin my finish...now I use Laquer base flats..
I prefer the Acrylic coat for obvious health reasons..I used Model master Acryl with Isopropyl alcohol as a thinner....did I use wrong thinner? Ive been using Iso for years and never had a problem..Id prefer not to use laquer base paints if I can avoid them..

Jim, I have used MM Acryl flat clear many times in the past, thinned with iso and unthinned. I found that using it straight out of the bottle, unthinned, gave me the best results.
Getting a milky finish, which has happened to me, too, can be the result of humidity or too thick a coat. Once in a great while, I have had flat clear disasters for no apparent reason.
Try MM Acryl clear flat right out of the bottle. Pollyscale also makes an excellent flat acrylic clear.
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