Kildare, Ireland
Joined: November 21, 2007
KitMaker: 3,212 posts
Armorama: 2,807 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 12:09 AM UTC
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For anyone who's interested, the M1117 is now "In Stock" on HLJ.
Order placed!
Sean
M1117 now in stock on my workbench..... work will commence this weekend!
A few days late starting... sat down last night and started opening all the bags. It struck me that there seemed to be an awful lot of parts. Started doing the wheels, then while they were setting went to work on the turret: no sprue "E" in the box! Then checked everything against what should have been there and discovered 4 of sprue "A" when there should have been only 2. Everything else was in order. And now I discover that the englist page of Trumpeter is down.... Any suggestions on what I do now?
thanks,
Sean
Missouri, United States
Joined: July 03, 2002
KitMaker: 626 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 01:32 AM UTC
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Rob Skipper posted some pics on Missing Lynx that showed pretty convincingly that the NWM turret is way off proportionally. It suffers from other detail issues as well. I'd have to assume since he helped Trumpeter that they at least got the turret right.
If you could be so kind as to direct me to the images that Robert( AKA 18B) posted I would appreciate it.
Robert saw the M-1117 turret and M-1200 Hull, when Charlie Pritchett showed it to him at Mastercon a few months back and commented that there was a small issue with the turret, it has since been corrected, thank you Robert.
I do know that the NWM M-1200 kit was mastered by Charlie Pritchett and just happened to have the real vehicle at his disposal.
The M-1117 turret came later with the help of John Charvat and Allen Hill.
As far as Trumpeter and there history of screwing up plastic model designs well that happens, I supplied them with over 8.000 Stryker images and they still made mistakes?
Take their T-62? seems to be problems there as well and this is a well documented vehicle?
Have a great day!
Mrosko
Camouflage, all I see is Camouflage. Yeah BABY! Ya gotta dig them there colors !
Baron-von Mrosko
Missouri, United States
Joined: July 03, 2002
KitMaker: 626 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 02:17 AM UTC
Here are a few images of the NWM M-1200 and cad drawings of the wheels and tires.
Chris Mrosko
http://gallery.kitmaker.net/showgallery.php?cat=24996 Camouflage, all I see is Camouflage. Yeah BABY! Ya gotta dig them there colors !
Baron-von Mrosko
United States
Joined: January 27, 2009
KitMaker: 70 posts
Armorama: 65 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 06:29 AM UTC
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Rob Skipper posted some pics on Missing Lynx that showed pretty convincingly that the NWM turret is way off proportionally. It suffers from other detail issues as well. I'd have to assume since he helped Trumpeter that they at least got the turret right.
If you could be so kind as to direct me to the images that Robert( AKA 18B) posted I would appreciate it.
Robert saw the M-1117 turret and M-1200 Hull, when Charlie Pritchett showed it to him at Mastercon a few months back and commented that there was a small issue with the turret, it has since been corrected, thank you Robert.
I do know that the NWM M-1200 kit was mastered by Charlie Pritchett and just happened to have the real vehicle at his disposal.
The M-1117 turret came later with the help of John Charvat and Allen Hill.
As far as Trumpeter and there history of screwing up plastic model designs well that happens, I supplied them with over 8.000 Stryker images and they still made mistakes?
Take their T-62? seems to be problems there as well and this is a well documented vehicle?
Have a great day!
Mrosko
Here it is, although for whatever reason he has deleted the photo from the post. I do remember it quite well, and the proportions he showed with the model and the actual turret were way off. Good on you for correcting it if that is the case.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/78968/thread/1245028860/Coming+soon+from+NWM%2C+M-1117Missouri, United States
Joined: July 03, 2002
KitMaker: 626 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 09:04 AM UTC
Thanks wseifert
The turret has been corrected, I have not found the time to do a side by side comparison.
I do know that our tires are much better and correct size than the Trumpeter ones.
Regardless the NWM M-1117 may see that light of day after-all and an update set for sure.
Chris Mrosko
Camouflage, all I see is Camouflage. Yeah BABY! Ya gotta dig them there colors !
Baron-von Mrosko
Hauts-de-Seine, France
Joined: October 10, 2005
KitMaker: 432 posts
Armorama: 429 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 10:38 PM UTC
Chris , perhaps you could considers to sell some of the M1200 parts as conversion set for trumpeter's kit!
Same goes for your wheels.
Just my 2 cents here
Stephane
Paris, France
Joined: August 30, 2005
KitMaker: 2,315 posts
Armorama: 2,158 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 11:50 PM UTC
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Chris , perhaps you could considers to sell some of the M1200 parts as conversion set for trumpeter's kit!
Same goes for your wheels.
Just my 2 cents here
Stephane
I am totally agree with Stephane on this point Chris.
Any comment on that ??
Cheers
Seb
Missouri, United States
Joined: July 03, 2002
KitMaker: 626 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 - 02:55 AM UTC
I think that we will release an update set for the Trumpeter kit.
I do not like how Trumpeter cheesed out on the turret mounting to the hull?
Trumpeters wheels and tires are also on the small side.
Also I think that the Trumpeter M-1117 hull may be to narrow, I will need to get the correct M-1117 measurement's before I make the final decision.
I do thank Trumpeter for releasing an M-1117 in plastic and cant wait to get my hands on the BMP-3 and hopefully the BTR-60 that I know they are working on.
Mrosko
Camouflage, all I see is Camouflage. Yeah BABY! Ya gotta dig them there colors !
Baron-von Mrosko
Dublin, Ireland
Joined: September 29, 2007
KitMaker: 603 posts
Armorama: 575 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 - 05:00 AM UTC
I'm not disagreeing here with anyone's comments but I'm getting a sense of "rivit counting" creeping up here guys
personally I like the M1117 kit and I commend Trumpeter for its release!
Hey maybe its not perfect and I'm not denying there are small issues with this kit but the thread is becoming overly negative towards this kit, well thats just my opinion.
Nearly every model released people will find errors, thats the game. Its interesting to hear the errors and corrections that can be made but some comments come at a cost to the producer which I think maybe over excessive.
For those who want 100% accuracy then there's plenty of AM kits out there for almost all the populor kits.
Sorry guys if I'm coming across as argumentive, I'm not at all, just giving my two cents worth here, I just dont want to see a good thread about the release of a sought after kit becoming a negative thread thats all
"problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them"
Paris, France
Joined: August 30, 2005
KitMaker: 2,315 posts
Armorama: 2,158 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 - 05:29 AM UTC
totally agree with you Roy
thanks to trumpeter for this kit.
it is coming with all the pro and cons.
For those that are looking for the perfect match to 1:1 vehicle.
go to the AM and thanks to Chris for his effort.
And let put it this way, I dont understand that people bashing Trumpeter because if one day they will release a perfect plastic kit, it will be the end of the AM. So what do you really want ???
cheers
Seb
Tokyo-to, Japan / 日本
Joined: March 31, 2005
KitMaker: 761 posts
Armorama: 455 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 - 05:59 AM UTC
Who's rivet counting? Last I looked, I believe pros and cons were mentioned on both kits.
Missouri, United States
Joined: July 03, 2002
KitMaker: 626 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 - 06:19 AM UTC
There are no perfect models on the market!
All manufactures make mistake both plastic and resin, we are all human, even the great Tamiya screws up from time to time.
I am an old school modeler, I can fix what is screwed up and a rivet counter I am not, I can live with a few boo-boo's here and there.
I do prefer plastic over resin any day o the week when it comes to Armor and aircraft kits, let alone the difference price.
Kudos to Trumpeter for a nice release, I really don't think that any other manufacture is on the modern band wagon.
Thanks Guys!
Mrosko
Camouflage, all I see is Camouflage. Yeah BABY! Ya gotta dig them there colors !
Baron-von Mrosko
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
Armorama: 1,208 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 - 06:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The M-1117 turret came later with the help of John Charvat and Allen Hill.
As far as Trumpeter and there history of screwing up plastic model designs well that happens, I supplied them with over 8.000 Stryker images and they still made mistakes?
Take their T-62? seems to be problems there as well and this is a well documented vehicle?
Have a great day!
Mrosko
Huh??? I helped with that turret??? Ahhh, so that is where those pictures went to...
I want to second a M1117 update and a M1200 conversion (as I have a bunch of picture of it.) Get off of yer fourth point of contact, ya slacking Redleg and start pouring some resin. Give me some additional reasons to invest in NWM.
John
John Charvat
"Hey baby, I only ride 'em, I don't know what makes them work" Oddball
Join AMPS: https://www.amps-armor.org/SiteMain/Main.aspx
Kildare, Ireland
Joined: November 21, 2007
KitMaker: 3,212 posts
Armorama: 2,807 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 - 09:31 AM UTC
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For anyone who's interested, the M1117 is now "In Stock" on HLJ.
Order placed!
Sean
M1117 now in stock on my workbench..... work will commence this weekend!
A few days late starting... sat down last night and started opening all the bags. It struck me that there seemed to be an awful lot of parts. Started doing the wheels, then while they were setting went to work on the turret: no sprue "E" in the box! Then checked everything against what should have been there and discovered 4 of sprue "A" when there should have been only 2. Everything else was in order. And now I discover that the englist page of Trumpeter is down.... Any suggestions on what I do now?
thanks,
Sean
Emailed HLJ as I couldn't get a contact for Trumpeter and got a very nice appology back and a promise they'll sort it out. The wait will kill me though: I was really looking forward to this one! But seeing as I have an extra set of wheel & axel parts I'll try and make one set at an angle without having to worry about making a mess. (cloud with silver lining)
Cheers,
Sean
Missouri, United States
Joined: July 03, 2002
KitMaker: 626 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 - 11:37 AM UTC
Hey Jonny-boy!
We missed ya in Austin last weekend? everything OK?
Mrosko
Camouflage, all I see is Camouflage. Yeah BABY! Ya gotta dig them there colors !
Baron-von Mrosko
Quebec, Canada
Joined: August 13, 2006
KitMaker: 383 posts
Armorama: 358 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 - 03:00 PM UTC
Small question: You talk about drilling a covered hole on the suspension but looking at this picture it seem's that Trumpeter was right
(Picture is from Eugene Teasley and can be seen at Primeportal
HERE )
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 - 03:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Small question: You talk about drilling a covered hole on the suspension but looking at this picture it seem's that Trumpeter was right
As well it should be. After seeing incorrect suspenson arms in their test shot, sent them detailed photos of them, which they then corrected. Kudos to Trumpeter for doing so.
What Mrosko hasn't mentioned is that after seeing his version, with the inaccuracies Bill talked about, (Some were pretty major, as he said) I gave Charlie Pritchett an ENTIRE walkaround of the M1117 to include turret measurements added directly to the images.
A strong man stands up for himself; A stronger man stands up for others.
Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter-accusations.
He is not Khan who calls himself Khan. Afghan proverb
Missouri, United States
Joined: July 03, 2002
KitMaker: 626 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 - 10:15 PM UTC
Robert
This I did not know, like I had mention in an earlier posting that John and Alan had supplied us with the same info just days before you did, Thanks for the help.
Here is note that Charlie posted on treadheadz last night.
[
quote]Last night Mrosko and I compared the Trumpeter kit with the (will it ever be produced?) NWM kit. I can tell you that when I made the masters for the M1117/M1200, I had scale plans provided by Textron (the manufacturer of the real thing). When we compared kits, we found that Trumpeter was undersized in respects to the hull, turret, and wheels. Details were kinda soft and underwhelming as well. The question is, do you prefer accuracy? If so, I hope you like resin more than styrene! [/quote]
Camouflage, all I see is Camouflage. Yeah BABY! Ya gotta dig them there colors !
Baron-von Mrosko
Missouri, United States
Joined: July 03, 2002
KitMaker: 626 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 - 10:55 PM UTC
Here are a few images of the suspension, I hope that this helps you.
Mrosko
http://gallery.kitmaker.net/showphoto.php/photo/326079Camouflage, all I see is Camouflage. Yeah BABY! Ya gotta dig them there colors !
Baron-von Mrosko
Missouri, United States
Joined: July 03, 2002
KitMaker: 626 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 - 10:58 PM UTC
Camouflage, all I see is Camouflage. Yeah BABY! Ya gotta dig them there colors !
Baron-von Mrosko
Louisiana, United States
Joined: October 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,069 posts
Armorama: 1,062 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 11:08 PM UTC
First my feeling: I feel that you should have replaced the plastic coil with scratchbuilt ones, as I will. Secend: I ordered me self one and I can't wate to get it. I feel like a kid waiting for christmas morning.
Seeing the those vehicles are "Manufactured here in Louisiana"
The main plant that produces the vehicles is located in "New Orleans Louisiana" and was heavily damaged by Hurricane Katrina. The manufacturing facilities have since been rebuilt and expanded to five buildings and personnel have more than doubled. "JOBS JOBS JOBS"
Sad I can't work there
Building the impossible is my main goal. Build baby build never sleep!!
Joined: September 19, 2007
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 08:14 AM UTC
One of those funny things about them being from LA. They rust, quick both at the factory and while waiting for delivery. On my ASV, when we got it direct from the factory, the steel pin that is removed to allow removal of the Mk-19 ammo chute cover was rusted so badly that it broke when we wrenched the pin out. there was also spot rust that had some of the non skid pulling up.
Joined: September 19, 2007
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 08:46 AM UTC
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Steve Tyliszczak is hat you V.B.?
Drop me a line when you have the time.
Mrosko
Hey Chris, yeah, it's me. I'm an MP 31B type now, about to deploy to Afghanistan in less than a month. I have some crew time on ASV's, but word is we aren't taking ours, instead we'll be falling in on the FA M12000 or whatever it's called. The Knight, why they are giving MP's forward observer trucks instead of our own ASV's I have no idea, guess the G.I.F got to someone way above my pay grade. Email on the way
FRAGO, you're email is getting kicked back to me. Drop me a line
[email protected]Steve
Louisiana, United States
Joined: October 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,069 posts
Armorama: 1,062 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 09:30 AM UTC
Sorry to hear about the rust Steve. That is what we get from the lowest bidder, they don't dip any or spray any of the parts with a rustproofing undercoating. Now that is realy sad coming from a state that has a high humidity and a city that sit's next to the triple M-(Mighty Muddy Mississippi)
"SSSSQUEEEAAAK SNAP"!
Building the impossible is my main goal. Build baby build never sleep!!
Joined: September 19, 2007
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 02:07 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Sorry to hear about the rust Steve. That is what we get from the lowest bidder, they don't dip any or spray any of the parts with a rustproofing undercoating. Now that is really sad coming from a state that has a high humidity and a city that sit's next to the triple M-(Mighty Muddy Mississippi) "SSSSQUEEEAAAK SNAP"!
Hey I love my ASV, don't get me wrong. It's alot of fun to crew and a hell of a lot more comfortable and survivable than a gun truck 1151, but it does have it's down sides. That engine deck is very comfortable to sleep on too. I loathe the turret controls(a toggle switch, really?) and the NV sight.. and the Mk19... but other than that. Now that I think about it, this Knight variant we're supposed to get sounds alot more appealing.
Honestly I'd rather have a flex mounted M2 with an ANPAS-13 thermal on it over the turret with the Mk 19, or replace the Mk-19 with a 240 like the Philippine model. Then again I'm more the out of the turret eyes out kinda guy anyways.
I actually just got back from Fort Polk last week from a JRTC rotation, I have a new state I like even less than Missouri! That's actually where I saw this new ASV variant. Didn't get to see them up close, only saw 3 of them pass by on convoy. I'm intrigued by the concept, does anyone have any more info on this variant? Is the turret powered or manually driven? My Google searches have been coming up lacking. It seems warrior is working on a kit/conversion?
