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German for Modelers
bill_c
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Posted: Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 05:36 AM UTC
Do you think she makes house calls?
mmeier
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Posted: Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 05:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

An interesting word for me has always been Späh(-panzer or -truppen). Clearly, a Spähpanzer is an armoured reconnaissance vehicle, so Spähtruppen are reconnaissance troops. But then what is an Aufklärungspanzer, or what are Aufklärungstruppen?

Furthermore, please add Balkenkreuz, as it has nothing to do with the Balkan region.



A the joys of a 1200 year old language that every Tom, Dick and Harry contributed to.

Aufklären is one of the words with quite a few meanings. In the context you used above it's the same as Spähen - Perform reconnaissance. "Den Gegner aufklären" means "to reconnoiter the enemy". It's less commonly used in the german ground forces than "Spähen". Maybe due to the fact that the term "Aufklärer" is used for a recon plane(1)

Aufklären also means "To inform someone about something/to explain". (like in "Informing Mrs. Smith about Mr. Smith real job" - "Mrs. Smith über den Job von Mr. Smith aufklären"

Another meaning is "Telling your child the stuff with the bees and the flowers" (Sein Kind aufklären)

And "es wird aufklären" (or aufklaren) means "The fog will lift"

(1) And as everybody knows the Airforce is responsible for germany loosing WWI and WWII. Before WWI we didn't have one and won (1864, 1866, 1871) and as soon as we had one...
18Bravo
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Posted: Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 06:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Aufklären also means "To inform someone about something/to explain". (like in "Informing Mrs. Smith about Mr. Smith real job" - "Mrs. Smith über den Job von Mr. Smith aufklären"




Und deswegen ist die deutsche Sprache fast genauso schwierig wie Englisch -- ich haette "erklaeren" gesagt.
mmeier
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Posted: Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 12:19 PM UTC
Huns, Gauls, Romans, Ostrogoth, Visigoth, Turks, Crusaders (all Nations), Mercenaries (all Nations), Poles, Tschechians (both in the 18th/19th century).... Every tribe/ethnic group was in Germany at least once leaving it's genetic material and parts of his language

We typically have multiple words for the same case. "Erklären" in 18Bravos context would be just as correct.. It's almost a wonder that all germans are speaking the same dialect today (Sometimes in addition to a local one)
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Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 05:41 PM UTC
Hi Bill,

Great work! My high school German pronunciations have needed a refresher.

Quoted Text

Just a curious question, but does the various areas of Germany have different accents as we have here in Yankee land?

That's what I remember. There is "high" German and "low" German dialects, too. Don't ask me the difference, it's been 30 years...

When I was in Germany last year I apologized for my pitiful prattle to a guest speaker from the Rheinische Friedrich-Wilhelms-Universität Bonn. She graciously told me that German is difficult for Germans to learn. Very kind of her.
bill_c
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Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:06 PM UTC
I also speak Chinese a bit, and my teacher used to say "we threw out things like case, gender, number and articles thousands of years ago," LOL. German is difficult on a good day, but the verb at the end of the sentence was always a killer.
mmeier
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Posted: Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 11:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Bill,

Great work! My high school German pronunciations have needed a refresher.

Quoted Text

Just a curious question, but does the various areas of Germany have different accents as we have here in Yankee land?

That's what I remember. There is "high" German and "low" German dialects, too. Don't ask me the difference, it's been 30 years...

When I was in Germany last year I apologized for my pitiful prattle to a guest speaker from the Rheinische Friedrich-Wilhelms-Universität Bonn. She graciously told me that German is difficult for Germans to learn. Very kind of her.



Hochdeutsch (lit: High German, Modern german would be more fitting IIRC) is the current german language. Basically the Hannoveranian/Prussian dialect that was made the "official" language in all of the country in 1871 and is taught in school, used in TV/newspapers etc. For many younger (post WWII) people this is also the only dialect they speak. And even older people generally speak it fluently even if they prefer local dialect.

I.e my father/uncles/grandfather typically spoke a local Dialect from the "Mittelhochdeutsche" (Middle High German) family between them (That sounds a lot like Dutch). Unless my mother or her family where around. Since they did not speak the dialect (the do speak one that sound very "Russian") everyone used "Hochdeutsch" and did so fluently.

When it comes to dialects Germany has two types:

+ The modern dialects that only differ in minor words like calling a meatball a "Frikadelle" or a "Bulette" and minor spellings (Appel or Apfel for Apples, Händle/Broiler/Hähnchen for a chicken) and some slurings (The Hamburgians pronounce S/Sp/St different than the Colonians, The Saxonians pronounce K/Kö/Ko different etc. ) Everybody has one but even extrem differences (Colonians vs. Westfalians vs. Bavarians etc.) are minor compared to a Scot/Welsh and an Englishman from around London

+ The old dialects. Those are really old, having more in common with 12th century german than with the modern dialects. If you want some idea what they sound listen to a german speaking Swiss.
bill_c
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Posted: Friday, May 21, 2010 - 08:48 AM UTC
bump this for those who might not know about it.
bill_c
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Posted: Friday, July 09, 2010 - 05:17 AM UTC
bump it again.
bill_c
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Posted: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 06:07 AM UTC
Bump this for newbies here.
bill_c
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Posted: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 05:55 AM UTC
Bump this topic for new members seeking this kind of information:

link
bill_c
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Posted: Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 09:09 AM UTC
bump this for newbies.
bill_c
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 - 02:16 AM UTC
Bump this tutorial for newbies.
easyco69
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 - 02:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well, Abteilung is certainly NOT pronounced Ob-tie-loong, but Ap-tie-loong.

Zimmerit doesn't start with a hard Z, but is just Zimmer (like the walking aid) and than just it...

BergePanther: Ber-Gu-Pan-Tur

Das is pronounced simple das, not dos...

A w is not pronounced like a V by Germans at all, that's just Hollywood talking.

Panzer: Pahn-Sir

Kampfgruppe: Kam (as in Kam-ikaze) p-ph group-u

Kraft as in the popular musicgroup Kraft-werk.

KwK is short for KampfwagenKanone

Grün is pronounced Grun like the un in union, but without the y sound at the start

PaK is just PaK, not POK... And should NOT be all caps, is Panzerabwehr Kanone. Panzerabwehr is one word. Like on the FlaK, Flugzeugabwehr Kanone.

Topfblende translates to Pot mantlet, where did you get oven lid?

Some additional words:

Ausf. stands for Ausführung, which means mark. It sounds like Ous (Out with an S) Fuur (Für Elise) roong.

Ketten, tracks. Cat-tun

StuPa - SturmPanzer Stoorm Pan-Sir






you tell'm!
Bonaparte84
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 - 03:00 AM UTC
I just bumped into this thread for the first time, and find this probably very useful for newbies to find their way around all sorts of German military designations.

However, being a German native speaker, I have to add my two cents. I generally agree with the translations provided. Yet, the pronounciation advice (including the corrections someone made) is just awful. If you actually apply it, it totally sounds like an American speaking German with American accent.

If people are interested, I would be willing to provide better pronounciation guides, or even audio samples, where available online. What do you guys think?
bill_c
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 - 03:09 AM UTC
Hi, Nicholas,

I appreciate your concerns, but you perhaps did not read through the entire thread to see that my goal is NOT to teach German, but to give modelers the ability to avoid totally mishmashing German terms (Loof woffe, wear mack).

This video combines the list with a native speaker's reading it to help those who want a bit more accuracy:

[Upload your own video]

As to your complaint that "it totally sounds like an American speaking German with American accent." I would wager that 99% of those using the list will be Americans with American accents.
Giovanni1508
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 - 04:16 AM UTC

Hi guys,

This is very nice post: I always tried to understand the meaning of many german words, very frequently found in our modelling projects
Giovanni1508
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 - 04:18 AM UTC

...I learned a lot by listening to sound-files and repeating the pronunciation like an idiot (preferably when I'm alone).

You can imagine: fallschirmjager....

bill_c
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 - 06:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

...I learned a lot by listening to sound-files and repeating the pronunciation like an idiot (preferably when I'm alone).


Thanks, Giovanni, the goal here is to move the ball forward a little.

I have overheard master modelers butcher the pronunciation of common German military terms. My goal is not to make them fluent in a second language, but sound a little less... um, silly?
Headhunter506
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 - 07:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

...I learned a lot by listening to sound-files and repeating the pronunciation like an idiot (preferably when I'm alone).


Thanks, Giovanni, the goal here is to move the ball forward a little.

I have overheard master modelers butcher the pronunciation of common German military terms. My goal is not to make them fluent in a second language, but sound a little less... um, silly?



Some bigshot modelers also don't seem to know that Afrikakorps (Ah-FREE-ka kor) is a single word. Just a pet peeve of mine.

Thanks for starting this primer, Bill. It's promoting a constructive discussion on the subject.

bill_c
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 - 07:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for starting this primer, Bill. It's promoting a constructive discussion on the subject.


You're welcome. It's also usually good for a few laughs.
RAM-G
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 - 08:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Thanks for starting this primer, Bill. It's promoting a constructive discussion on the subject.


You're welcome. It's also usually good for a few laughs.



http://www.hobbyboss.com/a/en/product/armor/1_35/2011/0312/677.html

google "hintern" :-) (image search)

(hinten without the r would be correct)
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 - 09:50 AM UTC
Hintern- Stooge whose parents blew $150K on his Fine Arts degree so he could do coffee runs for the entire office while working 70 hours a week for free.

vicmorrow
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 - 10:39 AM UTC
Thanks Bill, read your post, clicked the link and spent 15 minutes trying to pronounce the words in English. Learnt something and had a bit of fun so thanks for posting.
Thankfully I did not spend as much time on the rest of the thread, where the 'you say tomato I say tomato' mentality, kicked in.
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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 - 11:02 AM UTC
My experience (3 years in The Netherlands, 13 years in Japan) is that most Americans are absulutely horrible at pronunciation of other languages. I've known many "fluent" speakers who are simply painful to listen to. Therefore, any really good pronunciation guide is pearls before a swine IMHO. I mention this only to inject some self-deprecating levity into the conversation; not as a critique of anyone in particular.

My gratitude to Bill for his effort, and my deepest admiration to our European colleagues who speak more languages than I can shake a stick at.

There was a joke I heard while in NL:

What do call someone who speaks two languages?...Bilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks three languages?...Trilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks one language?...American.


And the Dutch should know: Nearly everyone I met there spoke at least four....