Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
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Italeri M110A1
joegrafton
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Posted: Friday, March 19, 2010 - 07:18 PM UTC
Hi Gary,
I'm glad you found one of the cameras, at least.
I cant believe that place is still locked up! What are they doing, secret military experiments, or something?
If you go to Ft Campbell anything Vietnam related would be good. How far are you from Kentucky, then?
Thanks Gary. For all your help.
Joe.
trickymissfit
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Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 05:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Gary,
I'm glad you found one of the cameras, at least.
I cant believe that place is still locked up! What are they doing, secret military experiments, or something?
If you go to Ft Campbell anything Vietnam related would be good. How far are you from Kentucky, then?
Thanks Gary. For all your help.
Joe.



Joe,
if I head due south, it's rougly 102 miles to the Kentucky state line, or a comfortable 90 minute drive Clarksville KY is another story! I'd say it's about 280 miles from the house to Clarksville KY. You might be able to get there with a 230 mile rive by taking the back roads, but that's going to add at least an hour and a half. When they finally get I-69 thru it will make the drive about 230 miles with a little less time involved. From Ft. Knox to Campbell, it's roughly 150 miles. Or about three hours.
I have not been to the 101st Museum in many years, and last time I was there it was mostly dedicated to WWII stuff. But I'm sure they've added a lot of Vietnam and Gulf War stuff by now. They way to tell is how the Service Clubs and EM Clubs are named down there. When I was stationed there they all were named after WWII battles the 101st was involved in (like Bastogne). Story went down there that they could not build a new beer hall unless they had a battle to name it after!
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 06:46 AM UTC
Hi Gary,
Those kinds of distances over there are nothing to you guys,I guess. Your continent is so spread out! Where I come from in this quaint little country of mine those kinds of distances are enormous!
I really dont want to put you out, my friend. I'd be interested in anything you can get hold of. A few years back I read a lot of books on the 101st & 82nd during WWII. Any photos of military equipment such as vehicles, uniforms, equipment, etc, etc, I would be interested in.
Drop me a line whenever you can get there.
All the very best to you & really thanks a lot for all your help.
Joe.
trickymissfit
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 05:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Gary,
Those kinds of distances over there are nothing to you guys,I guess. Your continent is so spread out! Where I come from in this quaint little country of mine those kinds of distances are enormous!
I really dont want to put you out, my friend. I'd be interested in anything you can get hold of. A few years back I read a lot of books on the 101st & 82nd during WWII. Any photos of military equipment such as vehicles, uniforms, equipment, etc, etc, I would be interested in.
Drop me a line whenever you can get there.
All the very best to you & really thanks a lot for all your help.
Joe.



I'm planing on a trip down to Campbell this summer, and maybe a trip back down to Bragg next time I go fishing down that way. I was going to visit the 82nd museum a few years back when the loacked the whole base down. (my son inlaw was in the 82nd at the time). Story goes that the 82nd mesuem is very nice, and I know the 101st is for sure.
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 08:59 AM UTC
That's great Gary!
Any photos would be greatly appreciated. I've got so many kits here that they will last at least another 10 years of modelling so I can definitely wait until the summer!
How many guys in an M110 crew? Officially & in Vietnam. Were crews stretched thin in Vietnam whilst dug in to semi permanent positions?
Also, whist in a semi permanent position, would the drivers hatch on the M110 have been closed whist firing? Every photo I've seen shows copious amounts of dust! Would the dust be a problem to the vehicle if the hatch was left open?
Joe.
trickymissfit
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 12:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

That's great Gary!
Any photos would be greatly appreciated. I've got so many kits here that they will last at least another 10 years of modelling so I can definitely wait until the summer!
How many guys in an M110 crew? Officially & in Vietnam. Were crews stretched thin in Vietnam whilst dug in to semi permanent positions?
Also, whist in a semi permanent position, would the drivers hatch on the M110 have been closed whist firing? Every photo I've seen shows copious amounts of dust! Would the dust be a problem to the vehicle if the hatch was left open?
Joe.



having never shot an M110 in combat, I can only give you an educated guess, and then I'll tell you why.

* you have a gunner and an AG right off the bat. There will be a section chief. At least two guys on the ground handeling the projo (204 lb. a piece). Another guy cuts the charges. So in all their should be about seven or eight minium

* now it seems to me that a typical 8" / 175 gun crew is normally 12 or 13 men. But here's what they don't tell you. You'll loose about two men right off the top to become part of ammo resupply for the guns (usually eight to ten guys [ we used six men]). You'll also loose two or three to the now formed "service battery" [ they don't even have a piece to shoot]). You'll also have one man relegated to KP, and another on guard duty. There will be two or three men assigned to accompany the F.O. if the battery has one. Then there is another three men that are assigned to be with the Chief of Smoke as radio operators. with this erosion of the crews your pretty happy to get seven warm bodies. Towed guns in the 105mm class often get by with five or six men. A 155mm towed gun used a section chief (most of the time), an AG and a Gunner. There would be a loader, and a guy with the swab and rammer staff. Add to each setup one man as the radio operator. There's not much extra help, and if a guy gets hit or sick everybody has to double up.
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 12:39 PM UTC
Hi Gary,
Thanks mate. You are a mine of information. It's really great to have you on this thread!
What about the drivers hatch question, though?
When the 8in or the 175 was being employed on a fire mission would the crew make sure the drivers hatch was in the closed position so as to stop the dust generated from the blast ingressing into the drivers compartment?
Or didn't it matter?
If the hatches were left open I'll try to model my M107 & M110 that way just for details sake. If they were mandatorily closed then great - that makes life a whole lot easier!
Thanks for your email by the way, Gary. Its really late now but I'll read it properly in the morning & get back to you then about it.
All the very best for now, buddy!
Joe.
redleg12
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 10:30 PM UTC
OK....the M110/M107 had a 12 man crew, normally.

The drivers hatch was left closed during firing to keep "stuff" from flying in. The driver on an M110/M107 was usually ready to jump into the hatch since the weapon had limited traverse, there were many times he might have to assist with a power shift.

Even in the prepared positions of VN you would find steel or plywood under the weapon so when it power shifted, it did not sink in.

Rounds Complete!!
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 11:41 PM UTC
Hi Mike,
Always great to hear from you! I haven't heard from you in a while.
Thanks for the info. This is a great help.
Would the driver be wearing an M1 helmet or would he wear the issue tankers helmet?
Also, you mentioned steel or plywood. What would the steel be? Would it be PSP or steel runway planking or some such material?
Thanks again my friend.
Joe.
18Bravo
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 01:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I have not been to the 101st Museum in many years, and last time I was there it was mostly dedicated to WWII stuff. But I'm sure they've added a lot of Vietnam and Gulf War stuff by now. They way to tell is how the Service Clubs and EM Clubs are named down there. When I was stationed there they all were named after WWII battles the 101st was involved in (like Bastogne). Story went down there that they could not build a new beer hall unless they had a battle to name it after!
gary



I deployed with 5th Group out of Fort Campbell a few years ago. Afraid things have changed quite a bit with the service clubs on bases. From what I see, there are no longer separate EM and NCO clubs (anyone remember the Dragon Club at Bragg?) but more or less just clubs. The only ones I know of on Campbell are Froggie's, an absolute hole in the wall, (and not in the good way) and the Dawg House, which primarily sells hot dogs and beer but I believe used to be the NCO club.
With all of the used car lots offering zero down on cars to anyone with an ID card and a pulse, gone are the days of being stuck on the base unless you could borrow your buddy's car. It takes a truly dedicated barracks rat to stay on the base these days. You'll like the 101st Museum. Hell, you can spend half an hour just looking at the revisions of their patch over the years. If you drive off toward the airfield you'll see a C-47 you can get good photos of.
When in Bragg don't forget the Spec Ops museum down near Hay Street. Back in the early 80's you wouldn't send anyone to that area of town without a gun, but Fayetteville has turned the Hay Street area around quite nicely.
joegrafton
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 03:38 AM UTC
Hi Robert,
It's great to hear from you. I hope you are keeping well!
I'd love to go to the 101st museum & also to the Spec. For. museum, too.
Unfortunately, its a bit of a long way or me to go, what with living across the pond! LOL
If you visit either of them anytime soon I'd love to see any photos you may be able to obtain.
Uniforms, equipment, patches, weapons, etc, etc. That would be great!
All the very best to you, my friend.
Joe.
trickymissfit
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 06:48 AM UTC
[quote]
Quoted Text


I have not been to the 101st Museum in many years, and last time I was there it was mostly dedicated to WWII stuff. But I'm sure they've added a lot of Vietnam and Gulf War stuff by now. They way to tell is how the Service Clubs and EM Clubs are named down there. When I was stationed there they all were named after WWII battles the 101st was involved in (like Bastogne). Story went down there that they could not build a new beer hall unless they had a battle to name it after!
gary[/quot

I deployed with 5th Group out of Fort Campbell a few years ago. Afraid things have changed quite a bit with the service clubs on bases. From what I see, there are no longer separate EM and NCO clubs (anyone remember the Dragon Club at Bragg?) but more or less just clubs. The only ones I know of on Campbell are Froggie's, an absolute hole in the wall, (and not in the good way) and the Dawg House, which primarily sells hot dogs and beer but I believe used to be the NCO club.
With all of the used car lots offering zero down on cars to anyone with an ID card and a pulse, gone are the days of being stuck on the base unless you could borrow your buddy's car. It takes a truly dedicated barracks rat to stay on the base these days. You'll like the 101st Museum. Hell, you can spend half an hour just looking at the revisions of their patch over the years. If you drive off toward the airfield you'll see a C-47 you can get good photos of.
When in Bragg don't forget the Spec Ops museum down near Hay Street. Back in the early 80's you wouldn't send anyone to that area of town without a gun, but Fayetteville has turned the Hay Street area around quite nicely.



A few years back I took a drive thru Campbell, and went past the old Clarksville Naval Base. Looked like it was jam packed with SF guys. Is that the new home of the 5th SF Group?
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 07:22 AM UTC
Hi fellas,
One question that I am really curious about & may sound a bit silly but was there ever a problem with rust on the vehicles in Vietnam?
Joe.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 07:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

...was there ever a problem with rust on the vehicles in Vietnam?



Not really. Most of the vehicles by that time (M113, M109, LVTP5/7, M551, etc.) had alluminum alloy hulls. Also, soldiers (or at least their NCOs) are pretty serious about maintaining their vehicles so they work when needed. Rust keeps things from working properly, so you keep your vehicle maintained so that it doesn't occur. In the long run, your life and the lives of others depend upon it.
joegrafton
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 07:35 AM UTC
Thats a fair comment & one I totally agree with.
But many modellers depict the odd rust stain on their AFV's for a touch of detail. If I were to depict the odd small rust stain like a run or something I just didn't want it to look out of place.
The weather in Vietnam is hot, wet & humid so would the occasional rust stain be out of context for a Vietnam AFV?
Joe.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 07:37 AM UTC
An occasional rust stain from a bolt head on a panel or a headlight guard is fine. Much more than that is too much in my opinion. I think rust on military vehicles in service is usually way overdone.
joegrafton
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 07:46 AM UTC
That's what I wanted to know.
Thanks, Gino, for the pointer.
Joe.
18Bravo
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 08:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text


A few years back I took a drive thru Campbell, and went past the old Clarksville Naval Base. Looked like it was jam packed with SF guys. Is that the new home of the 5th SF Group?
gary



5th Group is squarely in the middle of the post, but never have I seen SF dudes treated with such disdain on a post. Everything is Eagle this and All American that. Tradition is a great thing, but these poor guys are like redheaded stepchildren. Still at times what goes around comes around. The base rules have surpassed the point of ridiculousness. Not talking on a cell phone while driving only makes sense, but to not walk while you're on one? And the whole reflective belt thing. Makes sense too right? But in the gym? Come on!
Anyway, you know that everyone has to wear an Army PT uniform during PT. UNLESS the whole unit or team wears the same thing. So one ODA got the brilliant idea to wear hot pink team shirts while running around the post. That coupled with the fact that most SF dudes favor the Ranger panties, it makes for quite a sight. And there's nothing anyone can do about it! Funny thing is, no one ever gives them crap about their shorts OR their shirts.

A lot of these diversions probably belong in one of the other forums below, but it sure is funny to think about some of the silly things we must endure for those few moments of absolute terror we all live for.
redleg12
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 09:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Mike,
Always great to hear from you! I haven't heard from you in a while.
Thanks for the info. This is a great help.
Would the driver be wearing an M1 helmet or would he wear the issue tankers helmet?
Also, you mentioned steel or plywood. What would the steel be? Would it be PSP or steel runway planking or some such material?
Thanks again my friend.
Joe.



I'm here always watching from my secure observation area!!!! Hey, my brothers Gary and Gino are taking good care of your question....but I will fill in where I can.

As far as the plate, PSP would work.....dring the rainy season especially they would need something under the track area.

I forget on the helmet....I think so!!!.

I'll be back in my bunker when needed!!

Rounds Complete!!
redleg12
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 09:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

An occasional rust stain from a bolt head on a panel or a headlight guard is fine. Much more than that is too much in my opinion. I think rust on military vehicles in service is usually way overdone.



Could not aggree with you more Gino....it's the artsy thing to do.....along with chipping....

Anytime rust would breakout on a 1 to 1, it was spot painted!!!

Rounds Complete!!
joegrafton
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 10:28 AM UTC
Thanks Mike,
You guys really are helping me out. It is a privilege listening to you fellas.
All these little anecdotes & pointers from the people who've actually been there can help people like myself get our models absolutely spot on!
You really give us a feel of what it was like being there & all these little details add up.
Come out of your bunker anytime my friend. It is always a pleasure hearing from you.
Joe.
trickymissfit
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 03:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

...was there ever a problem with rust on the vehicles in Vietnam?



Not really. Most of the vehicles by that time (M113, M109, LVTP5/7, M551, etc.) had alluminum alloy hulls. Also, soldiers (or at least their NCOs) are pretty serious about maintaining their vehicles so they work when needed. Rust keeps things from working properly, so you keep your vehicle maintained so that it doesn't occur. In the long run, your life and the lives of others depend upon it.



it was a regular thing on the trucks to paint the chipped places before rust showed up. By the time the month of March rolled around there was little if any mud to drive thru, so everything was just faded with a coating of red dust. But the one thing that really took a beating over there was the tires. Goodyear must have made a few fortunes over there!
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 03:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


A few years back I took a drive thru Campbell, and went past the old Clarksville Naval Base. Looked like it was jam packed with SF guys. Is that the new home of the 5th SF Group?
gary



5th Group is squarely in the middle of the post, but never have I seen SF dudes treated with such disdain on a post. Everything is Eagle this and All American that. Tradition is a great thing, but these poor guys are like redheaded stepchildren. Still at times what goes around comes around. The base rules have surpassed the point of ridiculousness. Not talking on a cell phone while driving only makes sense, but to not walk while you're on one? And the whole reflective belt thing. Makes sense too right? But in the gym? Come on!
Anyway, you know that everyone has to wear an Army PT uniform during PT. UNLESS the whole unit or team wears the same thing. So one ODA got the brilliant idea to wear hot pink team shirts while running around the post. That coupled with the fact that most SF dudes favor the Ranger panties, it makes for quite a sight. And there's nothing anyone can do about it! Funny thing is, no one ever gives them crap about their shorts OR their shirts.

A lot of these diversions probably belong in one of the other forums below, but it sure is funny to think about some of the silly things we must endure for those few moments of absolute terror we all live for.



the 5th must have taken over the old 3rd Brigade area. Had a wire fence all the way around it like it was a stockade! PT when I was there was done in combat boots and a white tee shirt dyed mud brown!
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 03:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi Mike,
Always great to hear from you! I haven't heard from you in a while.
Thanks for the info. This is a great help.
Would the driver be wearing an M1 helmet or would he wear the issue tankers helmet?
Also, you mentioned steel or plywood. What would the steel be? Would it be PSP or steel runway planking or some such material?
Thanks again my friend.
Joe.



I'm here always watching from my secure observation area!!!! Hey, my brothers Gary and Gino are taking good care of your question....but I will fill in where I can.

As far as the plate, PSP would work.....dring the rainy season especially they would need something under the track area.

I forget on the helmet....I think so!!!.

I'll be back in my bunker when needed!!

Rounds Complete!!



up north the guys liked to use parts from the ammo pallets to make a base for the SPG to set on. But if you had the proper connections and the right bottle of spirits the Sea Bees would get you just about anything as well as have it delivered promptly. (I was the guy with the unlimited ration card in my company)
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 - 06:45 PM UTC
Gary,
So what sort of things would you guys look out for from the sea bees?
What were the highly sought after items of equipment? What items of equipment would you exchange a bottle or two for?
Joe.