Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
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Newbie M35A1 Build. The Convoy Begins...
trickymissfit
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Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 06:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm starting to put the cargo together now & I need some advice. I've been carefully cutting out the boxes & using balsa wood to fill them with (Tom, thanks for the great tip).
I have a couple of questions that may have been touched on in another thread but I just need it to be confimed here.
How many pallets can fit onto the bed of an M35 truck?
How was the load stacked? Was there a pallet for C Rats; a pallet for beer; a pallet for ammo, etc, etc? If so, how was each pallet loaded? I understand that there were several menus of C Rats so were the rations varied on each pallet or were they all the same menus? Likewise beer: did you get a pallet of Budweiser; a pallet of Miller, a pallet of Hamms, etc, or did each pallet have various brands on them? Were thay mixed?
What about smallarms ammo? Lets say .50cal, for arguments sake. Were the cans transported in their wooden shipping crates or was each crate broken down & the cans loaded individually?
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Have I missed anything?
I'd appreciate all the help you can give me on this one because I want to get this bit right. I'd love to hear from the people who were actually there & saw how it was done firsthand.
Thanks fellas.
Joe.



WOW! your full of questions this morning! Taking into fact that I have not seen a pallot of beer in a very long time, I'd guess the pallot was about 4ft x 5 1/2ft. With sixteen cases per layer (dosn't sound right to me). But Being as I always was told there was 80 cases per pallot, and can see no resonable way to get there; I think it was really 84 cases or maybe even 100. Here's why. The pallot stood about 4 feet tall. A case of beer is about 5" tall, so I'm thinking twelve layers on a 3 ft. x 5 ft pallot for 100 cases. (remember this is all guess work). This is the only combo I can get to come up even close to being right. Be nice to see a couple pictures.

The most common beer in I-Corps was Millers, PBR, and Budwiser as well as Schlitz. I've seen Black Lable and Falls City every now and then as well, but still rather uncommon. Have also heard that they had Hamms and Olympia, but never saw any. Ballentines was also common and everybody hated the stuff. Coke was the most common soda pop, and 7up was also common up north, but never saw much Pepsi stuff. Might add orange soda pop in there too, as there was always somebody that wanted it.

A typical load would be five pallots (have done more than six before). Usually three beer and two soda pop. If you bought four pallots, one had tobe a Ballentines Ale! You could not even trade it on the black market as it was so nasty! So we always stopped at three pallots of beer. There also would be two or three cases of hard liquer stuffed in there as well. The cases were usually mixed inside with several different items (I had a list). And if there was more room to play I'd go up front and buy several cases of Hienze 57 sauce and Granny Goose potato chips that came in cans (I often filled four duffel bags with stuff like this.)
I don't remember ever seeing C-Rats in a skid, but know that's how they were shipped over there. The same way with small arms ammo (came in crates that were stacked on a pallot)
When it came to getting an ammo resupply, we had a squad that did that back in batallion. We'd tell them what we needed, and they'd get it for us. I don't ever remember having crates of ammo on a truck driving down the roads unless it was in a heavilly armed convoy. But do remember seeing five tons loaded with 105 and 155 ammo in convoys (not us) if they were relatively close by. Most of the time that stuff was just trucked over to a chopper pad that had a fork truck nearby, and then off loaded onto landing nets. This pad was usually within eyesite of the main ammo dumps.
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 07:57 AM UTC
Hi Gary,
Oh, I'm full of questions all the time mate! I'm like a 3 year old who is perpetually asking "why?".
Thanks for the info on the pallets & load questions. I've got most brands here with me now so it looks like I'm going to be spending a fair few evenings making up boxes!
So would a pallet be made up of one brand of beer? I'm not sure I understand so please put me straight.
Also, I understand that C Rat cases came in a cardboard sleeve & was then banded to keep it together. Is that right?
Joe.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 08:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Also, I understand that C Rat cases came in a cardboard sleeve & was then banded to keep it together. Is that right?



Yes, you can see the outer sleve on the case below.



And the inner, individual meal boxes.
andyevans
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Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 08:54 AM UTC
Joe,

PM sent

Andy
joegrafton
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Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 10:26 AM UTC
Hi Gino,
Thanks for the C Rat pics. Yes, those are the ones I have here. The large cardboard box containing 12 smaller boxes, with the cardboard sleeve around the outside. My question is were there bands that went around the outside of the sleeve? Probably made of plastic or nylon (just a guess). Take a look at the top photo you sent. On the top left hand side of the sleeve you will notice a straight "dirty" mark. This appears to be where the band would go around. Were these bands used or should I not worry about modelling them?
Joe.
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 10:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Most of the time that stuff was just trucked over to a chopper pad that had a fork truck nearby, and then off loaded onto landing nets. This pad was usually within eyesite of the main ammo dumps.





HTH

Frenchy
HeavyArty
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Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 02:11 PM UTC
Yes, there were 2 bands made of black nylon, about a 1/2 inch wide each.
walley54
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 05:33 AM UTC
All the c-rat cartons that I ever saw in Nam were secured with baling wire wraped around the carton in each direction. Never saw any with nylon strapping. Check VietnamGear.com for a picture.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 05:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Gary,
Oh, I'm full of questions all the time mate! I'm like a 3 year old who is perpetually asking "why?".
Thanks for the info on the pallets & load questions. I've got most brands here with me now so it looks like I'm going to be spending a fair few evenings making up boxes!
So would a pallet be made up of one brand of beer? I'm not sure I understand so please put me straight.
Also, I understand that C Rat cases came in a cardboard sleeve & was then banded to keep it together. Is that right?
Joe.



when you went to the back of the main PX, and bought in bulk; the items always came on a pallot (you could split a pallot). The item on the pallot was always the same brand. Soda pop also came on the exact same style pallot. My typical order was a pallot of Budwiser, Miller, and PBR. For soda it would be Coca Cola (pallot), and a split pallot of orange soda and 7up. When you split a pallot you had to stack it yourself, and they would then band it and load it for you. Always wondered who paid for all that beer! I never paid a single dime for any of it; just signed my name and showed them my unlimited ration card.
Often after leaving that PX (it was about the size of a Walmart), I would drive by the Sea Bees and give them a half dozen cases of beer and a couple bottles of Canadian Club or whatever I had (to keep them on a continious retainer). In return they'd almost always give me two or three cases of steaks (I guess that was also to keep me on retainer). If I went to DaNang, I also made a stop to give a certain Marine a quart of whiskey (sometimes two if there was plenty). In the end about 15% of the load ended up being traded to folks in need for things we all needed.
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 06:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Also, I understand that C Rat cases came in a cardboard sleeve & was then banded to keep it together. Is that right?



Yes, you can see the outer sleve on the case below.



And the inner, individual meal boxes.



seeing that picture my thoughts were to look for the Hienze 57 sauce! C-Rats almost always came out via a slick, and were just stacked inside. Somebody in our company stole a big cooking pot out of the batallion mess hall, and we'd fill it with water and warm it up good and hot. Then toss in the cans.
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 06:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

All the c-rat cartons that I ever saw in Nam were secured with baling wire wraped around the carton in each direction. Never saw any with nylon strapping. Check VietnamGear.com for a picture.



this is wierd, but it seems to me that the real early C-rats came with bailing wire holding them together. Then after they went to the newer style C-Rats they all came with the plastic straps holding them together. It was not uncommon to see the early series of C-Rats all the way into mid 1968, as I remember the change over very well. Seems like they replaced the ham & lima Beans and maybe another one with something different. Also a lot of units removed the wire banding before they loaded a slick. But with the plastic banding they just left it on there.
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 06:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Most of the time that stuff was just trucked over to a chopper pad that had a fork truck nearby, and then off loaded onto landing nets. This pad was usually within eyesite of the main ammo dumps.





HTH

Frenchy



the loads that guy is rigging will go out to a fire base, and not be loaded inside a truck bed. Most are too wide. Those all look like white bag canisters, and plain jane HE rounds. There also is at least one load of green bag powder as they are smaller in diameter
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 06:43 AM UTC
Okay, now I'm getting the picture!
So, Gary, when you got your pallets of drinks from the PX & they loaded them for you I assume it got loaded with a forklift truck. The M35A1 I'm building didn't have drop sides so am I correct in assuming that they loaded the pallets on at the tailgate & pushed the pallets in with the forks. With the 3rd & 4th pallet they would push the front 2 in towards the front. Right?
Just need to know so that I dont place the pallets the wrong way.
Cheers buddy.
Joe.
joegrafton
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 10:15 AM UTC
Er, I tried to upload some more photos tonight (October 6th) but there is a technical issue with the site so I'll try again in the morning.
Sorry fellas.
Joe.
joegrafton
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 07:11 PM UTC
Hi fellas,
As promised:

Above: Heavily converted figures. Finished roof frame & the start of the cargo.












Above: Drivers web gear.

Above, D-Toys M35 wheels. There was a lot of residue resin in & around the nuts & bolts & because this was the side that will be seen I used a rotary tool to get rid of all the unwanted rubbish & replaced the nuts & bolts using my punch & die set. I hope you can see clearly enough.

Comments & suggestions would be most welcome.
Hope you like.
Joe.
sfctur1
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 07:41 PM UTC
Joe,
Looking good so far. Now you need to put some paint on it. Look foward to your next update.
Tom
joegrafton
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 07:48 PM UTC
Hi Tom,
Yeah, it does need a splash of paint, doesn't it? LOL
I'm still waiting for a new bench to go in & at the moment my AB's are packed away. Should be a couple of weeks max.
In the meantime I'm getting the cargo load ready.
Joe.
Knibbel
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 09:38 PM UTC
Just looked at he wheel with the name of the brand on it: Goodyear. But as far as I can see it says: Goodvear. So with a V instead of a Y. Model factories do this to avoid paying for using brand names on there models. But as a modeler it's easy to change. Just add some plastic card in this case. The other very well known example of this kind is: Continentau (instead of Continental), in which case you can scratch away a part the U.
joegrafton
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 11:02 PM UTC
Hi Jan-Kees,
Wow! Now that is very observant! I certainly didn't notice it myself. But I'll take your advice & sort it out.
Thankyou for pointing the error out to me.
Joe.
joegrafton
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Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 11:59 PM UTC

Above: some of the cargo & pioneer tools.


Above: drivers belt kit made from Verlinden PE belt with various resin equipment.







Joe.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
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Posted: Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 04:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi fellas,
As promised:

Above: Heavily converted figures. Finished roof frame & the start of the cargo.












Above: Drivers web gear.

Above, D-Toys M35 wheels. There was a lot of residue resin in & around the nuts & bolts & because this was the side that will be seen I used a rotary tool to get rid of all the unwanted rubbish & replaced the nuts & bolts using my punch & die set. I hope you can see clearly enough.

Comments & suggestions would be most welcome.
Hope you like.
Joe.



Joe, our trucks had the ridgid sides as well. They just kept pushing everything forward.

Does your wife know you have that good a vision? The hottest centerfold back in the day was Dee Dee Lind (how could anyone ever forget?) I think I fell in love with here thirty seconds into opening the magazine!

You got the driver and shotgun right. Most all divisions had an SOP that you had to wear the flak jacket and helmet when out on the roads. (we never wore them when going down to the local village for an ice house visit). Do not forget the sandbags in the floorboard! Lastly, I really like the expressions on the figure's faces. They look like they're laughing and having a good time, and that's important.
gary
jon_a_its
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Posted: Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 05:13 AM UTC
I'd be a bit nervous if someone was pointing the barrel of an m60 at my but
Nice work so far
joegrafton
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Posted: Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 06:51 AM UTC
Hi guys,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm pleased with the interaction between the two figures. I knew I wanted two figures in the truck (after your advice, Gary, on another thread) but didn't really have any plan for them at the start. They just kind of evolved like that & ended as you see them. Both base figures are from Legend but they've been heavily modified to fit, especially the driver. The shotguns' torso is Verlinden but with webbing straps scraped away. Heads are Hornet, helmets & M60 are TANK, bandoleers & water bottles from Bravo 6, Playboy from Mec Models.
Jon, didn't you know that the guy with the M60 has got the safety on?! LOL
I know what you mean but it was the only way that it would all fit! Sorry mate.
Joe.
trickymissfit
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Posted: Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 11:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi guys,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm pleased with the interaction between the two figures. I knew I wanted two figures in the truck (after your advice, Gary, on another thread) but didn't really have any plan for them at the start. They just kind of evolved like that & ended as you see them. Both base figures are from Legend but they've been heavily modified to fit, especially the driver. The shotguns' torso is Verlinden but with webbing straps scraped away. Heads are Hornet, helmets & M60 are TANK, bandoleers & water bottles from Bravo 6, Playboy from Mec Models.
Jon, didn't you know that the guy with the M60 has got the safety on?! LOL
I know what you mean but it was the only way that it would all fit! Sorry mate.
Joe.



just a note: The guy riding shotgun normally would be carrying an M16. About the only time we ever went out really armed and dangerous was when we had a gun in tow going back for a repair. They got nervous when you walked into the main PX with an M60 and belts hanging everywhere. The tools laying in the bed would have been stolen when you stopped in at the PX. Put them behind the seat and outta sight. Also a lot of units carried a short piece of chain and a lock to secure the truck when you left it. They'll steal anything!
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 07:01 PM UTC
I thought I might be overdoing it with the M60. Mabye a little artistic license was called for here. Point taken about the tools, though. I'll move them to behind the seat.
I've spent the last couple of evenings putting beer boxes together. A very slow & tedious task. And I have to get more... a lot more!
Thanks, anyway, for the advice, Gary.
Joe.