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Prinz Eugen division question
captnenglish
California, United States
Joined: May 20, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 12:11 PM UTC
Due to several recent acquitions, I am planning a dio involving the Prinz Eugen Division (7.SS Freiwilligen Gebrigsjager). At the moment I am planning to use Dragon's 6517 Gebirgsjager Gustav Line set and at least one of the Italian m14/41 tanks I recently picked up (the time perod of the dio would be late '44). I will work out the composition and see what other kits to use as the projects gets nearer to actually getting from the drawing board to the WB, but for now I have a question as I am very out of my element here. My question is if I include crews for the tank(s) would they be wearing panzer uniforms or would they in a gebirgsjager uniform? I can't seem to find the answer in either my own library or on-line. I realize as I type this, it sounds like a dumb question, but like I said, I am out of my element here.
ltb073
New York, United States
Joined: March 08, 2010
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Posted: Monday, October 04, 2010 - 04:56 PM UTC
Matthew,
There was a recent discussion about German SPA uniforms here on Armorama, If you missed it here is the link
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/164882&page=1
Hope that helps
There was a recent discussion about German SPA uniforms here on Armorama, If you missed it here is the link
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/164882&page=1
Hope that helps
captnenglish
California, United States
Joined: May 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,184 posts
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Joined: May 20, 2008
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Posted: Monday, October 04, 2010 - 05:46 PM UTC
I did see that one and it was instructional. The m14/41 was an Italain tank (m for medium, but it was more of a light tank) later used by the Germans for anti-partsian duty (as in this case. What is confusing me is the fact that the Prinz Eugen division was a gebirgsjager division. Perhaps am over thinking this. Thank you for the link though.
ltb073
New York, United States
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 3,662 posts
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Joined: March 08, 2010
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Posted: Monday, October 04, 2010 - 06:14 PM UTC
Ok Matthew
I found this book that might help here is the link
http://www.concord-publications.com/6518/6518.htm
I found this book that might help here is the link
http://www.concord-publications.com/6518/6518.htm
captnenglish
California, United States
Joined: May 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,184 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 04, 2010 - 06:37 PM UTC
I'll have to add this one to my library thanks. I don't know if it would answer my specific question, but one can never have too many references. Thanks for the tip. As a "plan b", I could always have the tank(s) "buttoned up" and just have to worry about having enough troops to fill out the dio.
RonV
Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 13, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 05:58 PM UTC
Hi Matthew,
It is not my intention to "rain on your parade" here, but I thought it might be useful if I pointed out that this particular figure set would be most unlikely to be suitable for representing Prinz Eugen gebirgsjager. The windproof gear that they are wearing does not seem to have made it into the use of Waffen-SS mountain troops; at least not this unit. A better set to work with might be 6037 handschar Division (replacing the heads with more suitable ones).
On the other hand, you might use the set you have just as designed, for mountain operations in Italy. Italian armor was used locally by some German units.
FWIW,
Ron Volstad
It is not my intention to "rain on your parade" here, but I thought it might be useful if I pointed out that this particular figure set would be most unlikely to be suitable for representing Prinz Eugen gebirgsjager. The windproof gear that they are wearing does not seem to have made it into the use of Waffen-SS mountain troops; at least not this unit. A better set to work with might be 6037 handschar Division (replacing the heads with more suitable ones).
On the other hand, you might use the set you have just as designed, for mountain operations in Italy. Italian armor was used locally by some German units.
FWIW,
Ron Volstad
captnenglish
California, United States
Joined: May 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,184 posts
Armorama: 770 posts
Joined: May 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,184 posts
Armorama: 770 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 06:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Matthew,
It is not my intention to "rain on your parade" here, but I thought it might be useful if I pointed out that this particular figure set would be most unlikely to be suitable for representing Prinz Eugen gebirgsjager. The windproof gear that they are wearing does not seem to have made it into the use of Waffen-SS mountain troops; at least not this unit. A better set to work with might be 6037 handschar Division (replacing the heads with more suitable ones).
On the other hand, you might use the set you have just as designed, for mountain operations in Italy. Italian armor was used locally by some German units.
FWIW,
Ron Volstad
Mr. Volstad,
Thank you very much preventing me from making a very big mistake. I had only intended to marry the two kits as they were what was on hand. As this was intended as a long term project I see it is time to go back to the books.
Hohenstaufen
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: December 13, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 09:48 AM UTC
Matthew,
I think Dragon do a couple of sets that actually include members of Prinz Eugen. One is "Fragile Alliance" that has an SS man in camo smock, the other is called "Partisan Assault" or something similar which has an SS machine gun team in it. To answer your original question, at least some Prinz Eugen tank crews wore the Black Panzer uniform complete with Odal rune on the right collar and normal SS ranking on left. (Source : Bender/Taylor Volume 3, picture p6-7.) The vehicles used by Prinz Eugen were ex-French, they seem to have had some Somuas and a few Char B1 bis in a Panzerabteilung. I would anticipate the actual strength of this tank unit would fluctuate somewhat due to the spares situation. Much of the division's equipment was captured or otherwise foreign, as it was considered a "second string" unit.
I think Dragon do a couple of sets that actually include members of Prinz Eugen. One is "Fragile Alliance" that has an SS man in camo smock, the other is called "Partisan Assault" or something similar which has an SS machine gun team in it. To answer your original question, at least some Prinz Eugen tank crews wore the Black Panzer uniform complete with Odal rune on the right collar and normal SS ranking on left. (Source : Bender/Taylor Volume 3, picture p6-7.) The vehicles used by Prinz Eugen were ex-French, they seem to have had some Somuas and a few Char B1 bis in a Panzerabteilung. I would anticipate the actual strength of this tank unit would fluctuate somewhat due to the spares situation. Much of the division's equipment was captured or otherwise foreign, as it was considered a "second string" unit.
captnenglish
California, United States
Joined: May 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,184 posts
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Joined: May 20, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 01:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Matthew,
I think Dragon do a couple of sets that actually include members of Prinz Eugen. One is "Fragile Alliance" that has an SS man in camo smock, the other is called "Partisan Assault" or something similar which has an SS machine gun team in it. To answer your original question, at least some Prinz Eugen tank crews wore the Black Panzer uniform complete with Odal rune on the right collar and normal SS ranking on left. (Source : Bender/Taylor Volume 3, picture p6-7.) The vehicles used by Prinz Eugen were ex-French, they seem to have had some Somuas and a few Char B1 bis in a Panzerabteilung. I would anticipate the actual strength of this tank unit would fluctuate somewhat due to the spares situation. Much of the division's equipment was captured or otherwise foreign, as it was considered a "second string" unit.
Thank you for this information. I knew about the two Dragon sets you mentoned, but ths project is about working with materials at hand; so I am going to go with Mr. Volstad's suggestion of using the Dragon set I just picked up as 5th Gebirgs div. but at least going by your information, if I include a tank and I most likely will, I can use the panzer crew figures I selected.