Hello Braillers
I've always found armoured trains to be interesting, none more so than the BP42/44 armoured trains.
They have a size, shape, & symmetry that I think is very appealing to the eye. The familiar 20mm flaks, T-38 tanks, artillery turrets, and on the later models the Panzer IV turret cars, add a lot of visual interest to these armoured anachronisms.
Bief History
=========
(I've distilled this info from Schiffer's and Sawodny's books on the subject)
The Russians had many armoured trains when the war started. Most were destroyed or captured by the Germans in the first couple of years of fighting on the eastern front. As the Russians recovered from their losses and began to go on the offensive, they backed away from armoured train production, as no longer neccessary. As the Germans sought to maintain control of the large areas they had captured by 1942, they saw armoured trains as part of the solution of to protecting and patrolling large areas. As Germany lost the initiative in the east and went increasingly on the defensive, armoured trains were seen as being increasingly useful for defence and security. These trains were also used at times in limited offensive operations, with varying results.
Germany had finished track conversion in captured territories in the east from Broad to Standard gauge by August 1942 including to Kharkov. The first BP-42 trains came into operation in the last months of 1942, and were built as Standard gauge.
The title "42" and "44" in BP42/44 refers to the year that the design was agreed on and implemented. The makeup and design of the BP-42 train was based on experience with captured russian and polish designs, which the germans had used, and improved on.
BP-42 was the name of the design that was decided on, with a locomotive in the middle, and a symmetrical makeup of various armoured wagons in front of and behind, the locomotive.
The first six BP-42 trains were in service before the end of 1942, two being allocated to each of Army Groups, North, Centre and South. The first six BP-42 trains were numbered 61 to 66.
The BP-44 was an enhanced design of the BP-42, (introduced in 1944) with very few changes to the original BP-42 design, the main change being the addition of a Panzerjager wagon with a Panzer IV turret mounted on it, at each end of the train, to give the train better defence against tank attack. The first documented BP-44 was train number 73.
The trains were manufactured at the Linke-Hoffman works in Breslau. Once Breslau was encircled in February 1945, manufacture of the trains ceased.
The BP42/44 trains were in use right up till the end of the war, with around 20 complete trains built (its unclear exactly how many were completed in the last few months of the war). They were used all over the eastern front except for the Balkans. They were tried there, but were found to be unsuitable, as those areas had 'light rail' meaning railway lines engineered not to take the weight of heavy trains.
At least one train was also operational in France. As the german forces retreated, all were lost, being captured, destroyed in action, scuttled and/or abandoned by their crew, a small number of trains were still being used in defence of Germany near Zossen, and in Austria at war's end.
.
Armageddon 1/72nd scale BP-44 armoured train
=====================================
Armageddon's is the only kit on the market in 1/72nd of this train.
It consists of a half train made up of a Locomotive, Tender, Geschutzwagen, Kommandowagen, Artillerywagen, Panzertragerwagen, & Panzerjagerwagen. A completion set consisting of all the above, minus the Locomotive can also be bought separately. I bought both kits to make the full train. The kit comes with some figures, a T-38 tank for each Panzertragerwagen, instruction sheets, decal sheet, and a roll of copper wire.
If you do a search for builds and comments on this kit, two things stand out - firstly that it can be built into an impressive looking model, as a few completed build pics found on the web show, and secondly that getting it built, even straight from the box is reputed to be a difficult task.
I could not find enough detail of what the issues were with this kit, on the web, other than some general comments, even though I asked for specifics on web forums, I could only get a few words and generalisations. I wanted to find out just what was good and what was bad about the kit to make an informed choice before committing $$$ to its purchase, as this is quite an expensive kit. There are some sprue pics on the web, which indicated poor casting, but these tell you nothing about fit of parts or warped parts. No retail shop in my part of the world stocks this kit, so many other modellers, like me, would also be unable to inspect the contents before deciding to part with their cash.
Having made the purchase, I decided some comments and pictures may help others make more of an informed choice, if its something they are considering buying.
Here are some brief observations about whats in the box
The Sprues
=========
* Most sprues are cast in medium brown plastic, a few are cast in a slightly lighter brown.
* Many small parts are not fully formed, such as rungs and steps. The tracks for the T-38 are similarly missing large parts of casting.
* Heavy flash on all small parts
* Attachment of pieces to the sprues is by a large solid lump
* Large pieces that make up the cars and locomotive sides, bases, ends and roof are cast very thick.
* Some detail is very poorly cast
* Parts on the sprues are not numbered, though the large sides, bases and tops of each wagen type are marked with a letter or letters on the inside, to identify which wagon type the part belongs to
* no location pins on parts to assist with correct placment & fitting
The Instructions
============
These are extremely basic, two A3 sized sheets, printed in B & W, both sides with very simple diagrams showing where parts go. There are no sprue layout diagrams to assist with identifying parts. No close ups or diagrams to assist with correct positioning of parts.
The decals
=========
a set is supplied for the full armoured train, even if you buy just the half train. The extras on the sheet need to be retained for use if you also purchase the half train.
Extras
=====
a small roll of copper wire is supplied to replace steps, hand rails, and rungs with.
Having viewed the contents, it was evident this kit would take a large amount of work, just to assemble it straight from the box. Many parts are so poorly cast as to be unusable, which is why the roll of wire has been included, the unusable parts are not just limited to the rungs and handrails
Its my intention to focus on one wagon, and complete its construction & undercoat it, before starting on another wagon. Final painting, weathering, etc, later.
I'll go into details of my build progress & pictures, with whats good and whats not so good about the kit & build in updates to this thread as I go.
Its my intention to improve or replace some parts of this kit.
For references I have these books as well as other pictures that can be found on the web
Trojca's Panzerzug BP42 / BP44
Sawodny's German Armored Trains of WW2 (Vol 1 & 2)
Schiffer's German Armored Trains on the Eastern Front, 1941-44
cheers
Neil
The Geschutzwagen
================
I decided to start with this piece of the train first
My logic for starting here is that this would neither be the hardest, nor the easiest part of the build, so was as good a place as any to start.
Base, sides, ends and roof
====================
The base of this vehicle is the same as the Kommandowagens & Kanon and Flakwagens, though the sides and top are different on each. All doors and hatches are moulded on, closed
The base has the access doors, hinges, handles and fasteners moulded on, and this has not been done very well. I decided to leave the hinges as they are barely seen at the bottom, and scraped and sanded off the handles and fasteners and replaced them with wire and styrene. The fasteners are a simplified representation, which hopefully will look better than what was cast on, when the painting is done.
Footsteps each side also made from wire. The pre formed holes for mounting the footsteps were mostly in the wrong place when compared to plans and photos, so I filled them,
The base & sides, ends & top are all cast in very thick plastic - around 2mm thick, which is way overscale, but as the car is enclosed with a roof the thickness cant be seen.
The casting of detail on the sides and ends is much better than on the base, though its still a bit soft.
There is virtually no warping in any of these parts, probably due to the thickness of the casting. However this same thick casting makes getting a flush join between the roof, sides and ends difficult. I sanded down the upper inner edges of the walls ends and roof, to get a flush fit, with only a small amount of filler needed. The fit of this upper hull to the base was also quite good, just needed a small amount of filler too.
Care needs to be taken with front and rear ends to ensure they are squarely mounted. This requires some sanding to achieve.
Wheels
======
The wheels are not badly cast, compared to much of the kit. The flanges are a little overscale in thickness and width, these are easy to sand down to look better, even though these are virtually unseen pieces. The axles were trimmed and the wheels were assembled 20mm apart as this is very close to Standard Gauge. The slots cast in the base for the wheels to protrude out of have a bit of free play, you could make these a bit wider to represent Broad Gauge, though all indications are that these trains only ran on Standard Gauge lines.
The Artillery Turret
==============
This comes in just two pieces - the turret and the gun. Hatches are moulded closed and it has no internal detail.
The gun that comes with this kit is what identifies this train as a BP-44. The turret is the same on BP-42 & 44 trains, but the BP 42 had captured russian 76mm field artillery guns or Skoda 100 mm howitzers fitted. By 1944 these earlier guns were in short supply, so german 105 mm M 18M howitzers were fitted, which were very different in appearance to the russian and czech guns. According to Sawodny, shortages of the german howitzers also saw some BP-44s fitted with the earlier cannon.
I decided to cut out the top commander's hatch, and the long hatch at the back of the turret. In pictures this long hatch is sometimes seen open to about the 2 o'clock position. This hatch is a bit narrow for personnel access, possibly it was opened so that the recoil of the artillery piece didnt strike the back of the turret, maybe to let fumes out, maybe to make it easy to eject spent cannisters. I'm not sure what its purpose was but I've made it partly open.
I've also added a front view port in the open position, and a grab handle thats seen on some pictures. I also rebuilt the external part of the 105 mm gun. As the commanders hatch was open, I also cut up a Revell 105mm artillery piece to provide some internal detail. It may not be very accurate, but only a small part is seen and is better than just empty space. The muzzle brake is from a Trumpeter Stug, being the brake for the 105mm version. Its not quite the right shape as compared to photos but may have to do.
I also drilled a hole in the hull where the turret fits so I could fashion and attach a spindle to the bottom of the turret so that it could rotate, otherwise it would need to be glued in place.
Other bits so far
============
The frame that sits behind the turret is unusable, too poorly cast, so I made another out of wire. Not sure what this wire frame is for, but it does prevent the turret from being rotated to the point that it could damage the train were the gun to be fired.
The ventilation outlets on the roof were very badly cast, I made fresh ones out of styrene rod. Pictures show some of these cars had two ventilators, as I've done here. These cars only had one external door handle each side, so I cut all 4 off, and made 1 each side from wire.
I cut some of the side view ports open, as can be seen in some pictures, these could evidently be hinged open inside the car. One picture shows crew members heads looking out these same side ports
The buffers and end panels are not badly cast, just need a tidy up with a file. One buffer head at each end needs to be flattened with sanding, photos of german trains in this era always show one buffer face is rounded, the other is flattened.
thats the progress so far, I'll do another update when I've progressed this one a bit further
pics are below
cheers
Neil
Hosted by Darren Baker
Armageddon BP-44 Armored Train 1/72
Korpse
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Friday, March 18, 2011 - 11:33 PM UTC
casualmodeler
Hame, Finland
Joined: February 04, 2009
KitMaker: 702 posts
Armorama: 665 posts
Joined: February 04, 2009
KitMaker: 702 posts
Armorama: 665 posts
Posted: Friday, March 18, 2011 - 11:45 PM UTC
Nice start, Neil. But still I have to say, because I know how this kit is like, good luck on your way building this train.
tread_geek
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2008
KitMaker: 2,847 posts
Armorama: 2,667 posts
Joined: March 23, 2008
KitMaker: 2,847 posts
Armorama: 2,667 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 19, 2011 - 03:09 AM UTC
Neil, you should be writing a book or at the minimum turning this endeavour into a full blown feature. From what you've already written this kit appears to be a real "pig." I wish you all the best and wonder if at some point that you might glue wings to it and see how it responds to flying through the air into a concrete wall.
Cheers,
Jan
Cheers,
Jan
PanzerAlexander
Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: February 17, 2010
KitMaker: 625 posts
Armorama: 608 posts
Joined: February 17, 2010
KitMaker: 625 posts
Armorama: 608 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 19, 2011 - 10:04 AM UTC
Neil, when it comes to trains you are the person to ask.
I was expecting that build from you, after all the rest that you've done.
You have undertaken a major task and I wish you the best. I'll be following your build all the way.
P.A.
I was expecting that build from you, after all the rest that you've done.
You have undertaken a major task and I wish you the best. I'll be following your build all the way.
P.A.
Korpse
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 19, 2011 - 11:35 AM UTC
Hello
@Kimmo - you are right, this one wagon took long enough, I didn't count the hours, but it was more than a few. Your advice about getting the Trojca book was sound. Without scale plans, this kit would be impossible to build. Thats another reason I'm building one wagon through to completion at a time
@Jan - thanks Jan ! You can see why I didn't enter this in the Braille Scale Campaign, there are 12 more wagons to build, and this one still needs a bit more work, not to mention paint. How do you do a feature ?
For now I'll just update this thread as I progess the kit. There are not really many parts in each wagon, its just that the parts don't fit well without a lot of work. And I also think its worth taking the time to replace some parts, and open some hatches and doors which adds to the time taken. Will be interesting to see just how long this kit takes, though it can't be rushed.
@PanzerAlexander you must have known I really like the BP-42/44 trains but it still took me some time to decide to buy this kit. It arrived in January and when I looked closely at the pieces, my worst fears were realised, so it took me another 2 months to get up the nerve to start it ! Its not so bad now I've started, though some of these cars are going to be harder than this one, and thanks for your kind words of support. I'm not an expert the information is all in the Sawodny, Schiffer books, the Trojca book doesn't have much information, but has excellent scale plans of every wagon from all sides and the top.
cheers
Neil
@Kimmo - you are right, this one wagon took long enough, I didn't count the hours, but it was more than a few. Your advice about getting the Trojca book was sound. Without scale plans, this kit would be impossible to build. Thats another reason I'm building one wagon through to completion at a time
@Jan - thanks Jan ! You can see why I didn't enter this in the Braille Scale Campaign, there are 12 more wagons to build, and this one still needs a bit more work, not to mention paint. How do you do a feature ?
For now I'll just update this thread as I progess the kit. There are not really many parts in each wagon, its just that the parts don't fit well without a lot of work. And I also think its worth taking the time to replace some parts, and open some hatches and doors which adds to the time taken. Will be interesting to see just how long this kit takes, though it can't be rushed.
@PanzerAlexander you must have known I really like the BP-42/44 trains but it still took me some time to decide to buy this kit. It arrived in January and when I looked closely at the pieces, my worst fears were realised, so it took me another 2 months to get up the nerve to start it ! Its not so bad now I've started, though some of these cars are going to be harder than this one, and thanks for your kind words of support. I'm not an expert the information is all in the Sawodny, Schiffer books, the Trojca book doesn't have much information, but has excellent scale plans of every wagon from all sides and the top.
cheers
Neil
Korpse
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 12:17 AM UTC
Hello
I have made some progress on another wagen, this time the 'Kanon & Flakwagen'.
This one has similar issues to the Geschutzwagen, (and more).
As with all parts, they are attached directly to the sprues with big lumps. Cleaning that up is the least of the work on the wagon.
The Wagon Base
==============
This wagon has a similar but slightly different base to the Geschutzwagen. This one has hinged coverings over the axle boxes (similar to what was seen on Soviet armoured trains).
The big problem with the base is thats its asymmetrical... the base has a dividing line down the middle, from which the base angles upwards slightly. And one side is slightly narrower than the other. And one end is not square. Only by a millimetre or so in both cases, but it does make a difference. The two end pieces to the armoured body are also asymmetrical, as on the Geschutzwagen. I thought this could be solved with sanding down one side/ and or applying filler to the other side, This is a passable workaround, but a slight assymetry is still there, which would not be solved by scratchbuilding new ends, as the side pieces they attach to have an asymmetry that matches the ends !
The other issue is that the body is a millimetre or so longer than the base, and overhangs it noticeably, at both ends.
I checked measurements in the Trojca book, multiplied them by 35 and divided by 72, and the base is a millimetre or two short. I cut some plastic card to the shape of the base ends and attached it and now its the right length and the upper hull fits (almost) perfectly, just a slight sanding needed.
The rail wheels were again sanded back to thin and shorten the flange, and were set at 20mm apart.
The Upper Hull
============
As with the Geshutzwagen, the inner surfaces of all pieces had to be sanded to about a 45 degree angle around the edges so that a flush join could be obtained.
A small amount of filler was needed around most of the joins. When dry I sanded these, then painted these areas in 'red oxide' to see if a smooth enough finish had been obtained. A small amount of extra filler was added where needed, and sanded again.
The multi sided armour that surrounds where the flak gun will sit was sanded back a lot as was over a millimetre thick, still need to thin and tidy these parts
I have joined the hull to the base, applying a little filler to each end and sanded it back, may still need to add some to the sides.
Still lots more to do on this one, some progress shots below
cheers
Neil
I have made some progress on another wagen, this time the 'Kanon & Flakwagen'.
This one has similar issues to the Geschutzwagen, (and more).
As with all parts, they are attached directly to the sprues with big lumps. Cleaning that up is the least of the work on the wagon.
The Wagon Base
==============
This wagon has a similar but slightly different base to the Geschutzwagen. This one has hinged coverings over the axle boxes (similar to what was seen on Soviet armoured trains).
The big problem with the base is thats its asymmetrical... the base has a dividing line down the middle, from which the base angles upwards slightly. And one side is slightly narrower than the other. And one end is not square. Only by a millimetre or so in both cases, but it does make a difference. The two end pieces to the armoured body are also asymmetrical, as on the Geschutzwagen. I thought this could be solved with sanding down one side/ and or applying filler to the other side, This is a passable workaround, but a slight assymetry is still there, which would not be solved by scratchbuilding new ends, as the side pieces they attach to have an asymmetry that matches the ends !
The other issue is that the body is a millimetre or so longer than the base, and overhangs it noticeably, at both ends.
I checked measurements in the Trojca book, multiplied them by 35 and divided by 72, and the base is a millimetre or two short. I cut some plastic card to the shape of the base ends and attached it and now its the right length and the upper hull fits (almost) perfectly, just a slight sanding needed.
The rail wheels were again sanded back to thin and shorten the flange, and were set at 20mm apart.
The Upper Hull
============
As with the Geshutzwagen, the inner surfaces of all pieces had to be sanded to about a 45 degree angle around the edges so that a flush join could be obtained.
A small amount of filler was needed around most of the joins. When dry I sanded these, then painted these areas in 'red oxide' to see if a smooth enough finish had been obtained. A small amount of extra filler was added where needed, and sanded again.
The multi sided armour that surrounds where the flak gun will sit was sanded back a lot as was over a millimetre thick, still need to thin and tidy these parts
I have joined the hull to the base, applying a little filler to each end and sanded it back, may still need to add some to the sides.
Still lots more to do on this one, some progress shots below
cheers
Neil
PanzerAlexander
Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: February 17, 2010
KitMaker: 625 posts
Armorama: 608 posts
Joined: February 17, 2010
KitMaker: 625 posts
Armorama: 608 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 12:41 AM UTC
Good work so far Neil. Keep it up.
P.A.
P.A.
PedroA
Valencia, Spain / España
Joined: December 27, 2010
KitMaker: 324 posts
Armorama: 322 posts
Joined: December 27, 2010
KitMaker: 324 posts
Armorama: 322 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 10:52 AM UTC
You have a hard work with this piece. Congratulations by the progress.
Regards. Pedro.
Regards. Pedro.
Korpse
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 04:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Good work so far Neil. Keep it up
Thanks Alexander, its a labour of love, on this one
Quoted Text
You have a hard work with this piece. Congratulations by the progress
Pedro thanks. If I had your skills I'd just scratchbuild the whole thing. Best I can do is just to try to improve this one a little bit.
I've advanced the "Kanonen & Flakwagen" a but further. I've refilled and resanded some joins, and thinned down the walls of the flakwagen area a lot more.
I've scratchbuilt most of the 105 mm gun from brass, copper, evergreen rod and parts from the spares box. Still need to finish it. Its the exact same length as the other cannon, but without the muzzle break it looks much shorter. I'm not opening the turret hatch on this one, just to have some variety.
There were/ are two roof hatches in the middle cabin area, but again they were not mirror images of each other, one was closer to the edge than the other, so I sanded them both off. I cut openings so that they can be open, to match a photo in the Trojca book that shows these open with what seems top be a 'sentry' in each, on lookout. I made hatches and hinges from card, rod, and wire. This area is still not finished either
Still lots more work to do on this wagon before I undercoat it, and it still needs a 20mm flak, I'll post more when I have a bit more done
cheers
Neil
Posted: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 08:36 PM UTC
Niel,
And I thought I had patience? That is some major project you have gotten yourself into. I commend you for your desire, motivation, dedication and what must be stubborn patience. You've already done a wonderful job of explaining the history behind this train and about the kit. I hope you had taken photographs of the sprues, instructions and any decals included in the kit before commencing work? The photographs could be used for a review of this kit and linking that to this build log?
You've got quite a production going and your doing a great job! This is most interesting! I like armor, planes and trains and that box art covers all of these things all at the same time. What you have here is a combination of armor and trains. I'm really enjoying this. Keep it coming!
Oh, I just noticed a book in the Squadron mail order monthly entitled 'German Armored Trains 1904-1945 by Sawodny. Its currently on sale if your interested? Its illustrated with over 1000 photographs and encompasses the entire history and usage of these German trains throughout that time period. You can read more about the book at the Squadron web site here.
-Eddy
And I thought I had patience? That is some major project you have gotten yourself into. I commend you for your desire, motivation, dedication and what must be stubborn patience. You've already done a wonderful job of explaining the history behind this train and about the kit. I hope you had taken photographs of the sprues, instructions and any decals included in the kit before commencing work? The photographs could be used for a review of this kit and linking that to this build log?
You've got quite a production going and your doing a great job! This is most interesting! I like armor, planes and trains and that box art covers all of these things all at the same time. What you have here is a combination of armor and trains. I'm really enjoying this. Keep it coming!
Oh, I just noticed a book in the Squadron mail order monthly entitled 'German Armored Trains 1904-1945 by Sawodny. Its currently on sale if your interested? Its illustrated with over 1000 photographs and encompasses the entire history and usage of these German trains throughout that time period. You can read more about the book at the Squadron web site here.
-Eddy
Korpse
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - 05:28 PM UTC
Hello Eddy
Thanks for your post. Glad you are liking the build.
That new book you posted a link to looks great, I hope there is a lot of new material and photos in it, not previously covered in his other books on the subject.
Its true this build is very hard on the patience.
It can't be built out of the box without a lot of work, and short of scratchbuilding and replacing almost everything, one has to accept that it still has shortcomings.
The time I've spent on just these first 2 wagons would equal the time it would take to build and paint a dozen Dragon 1/72 scale kits. And there are 13 wagons in this train !
Another factor with building this train is that you need a well stocked spares box, and a good range of scratchbuilding materials, and be prepared to replace the parts that are the worst, like the T-38 tanks and the 20mm quad flaks.
The quad flaks are a real problem to replace. I have Hasegawa and ESCI 1/72 quad flaks but they are overscale and look pretty bad. I have a MW 1/72 quad flak which is short run production, and also has a lot of poor moulding, but at least its not overscale, so am working it into shape.
The MW gun barrels are bad, so replaced them with cut down syringe needles so that they are neat & the right scale, and made the flash suppressors from the same source. They are just being test fitted, in the pictures below. I'll make the quad flak so that it rotates and elevates. I should replace then with RB barrels which are excellent, but cant get them locally.
I also scratchbuilt some non slip metal plate for the flak gun area. I opened some more view ports, and decided to close one roof hatch. Also made the railing at the back of the flak area from wire, made roof ventilators from evergreen tube. Added the handles on the lower hull, and fasteners and foot rungs and steps. Just have to finish the flak gun, and make a railing for the rear, and a flash suppressor for the 10.5 cm Cannon, and this one is also ready for undercoat. I'll wait till I have the next wagon built, then undercoat all thats been built in one go
cheers
Neil
Thanks for your post. Glad you are liking the build.
That new book you posted a link to looks great, I hope there is a lot of new material and photos in it, not previously covered in his other books on the subject.
Its true this build is very hard on the patience.
It can't be built out of the box without a lot of work, and short of scratchbuilding and replacing almost everything, one has to accept that it still has shortcomings.
The time I've spent on just these first 2 wagons would equal the time it would take to build and paint a dozen Dragon 1/72 scale kits. And there are 13 wagons in this train !
Another factor with building this train is that you need a well stocked spares box, and a good range of scratchbuilding materials, and be prepared to replace the parts that are the worst, like the T-38 tanks and the 20mm quad flaks.
The quad flaks are a real problem to replace. I have Hasegawa and ESCI 1/72 quad flaks but they are overscale and look pretty bad. I have a MW 1/72 quad flak which is short run production, and also has a lot of poor moulding, but at least its not overscale, so am working it into shape.
The MW gun barrels are bad, so replaced them with cut down syringe needles so that they are neat & the right scale, and made the flash suppressors from the same source. They are just being test fitted, in the pictures below. I'll make the quad flak so that it rotates and elevates. I should replace then with RB barrels which are excellent, but cant get them locally.
I also scratchbuilt some non slip metal plate for the flak gun area. I opened some more view ports, and decided to close one roof hatch. Also made the railing at the back of the flak area from wire, made roof ventilators from evergreen tube. Added the handles on the lower hull, and fasteners and foot rungs and steps. Just have to finish the flak gun, and make a railing for the rear, and a flash suppressor for the 10.5 cm Cannon, and this one is also ready for undercoat. I'll wait till I have the next wagon built, then undercoat all thats been built in one go
cheers
Neil
PanzerAlexander
Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: February 17, 2010
KitMaker: 625 posts
Armorama: 608 posts
Joined: February 17, 2010
KitMaker: 625 posts
Armorama: 608 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 07, 2011 - 01:06 AM UTC
Hello Neil,
Since it's going to be such a long build you can get some RB barrels in great prices in ebay as this
http://cgi.ebay.com/RB-model-72B14-1-72-20mm-Flak-38-Barrel-4-pcs-/110664507888?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c41e61f0
Practically they cost very little and are very good. It will save you the time and effort to build barrels and muzzle brakes.
Good luck with the project.
P.A.
Since it's going to be such a long build you can get some RB barrels in great prices in ebay as this
http://cgi.ebay.com/RB-model-72B14-1-72-20mm-Flak-38-Barrel-4-pcs-/110664507888?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c41e61f0
Practically they cost very little and are very good. It will save you the time and effort to build barrels and muzzle brakes.
Good luck with the project.
P.A.
Firefly74
Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 15, 2010
KitMaker: 224 posts
Armorama: 205 posts
Joined: April 15, 2010
KitMaker: 224 posts
Armorama: 205 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 07, 2011 - 05:07 PM UTC
What a huge project! Great work as always Neil. Looking forward to seeing more.
Cheers,
Tim
Cheers,
Tim
SchoeniR6
Germany
Joined: November 21, 2010
KitMaker: 189 posts
Armorama: 189 posts
Joined: November 21, 2010
KitMaker: 189 posts
Armorama: 189 posts
Posted: Friday, April 08, 2011 - 06:50 AM UTC
Hi
What a huge project!
Good work so far.
Hope seeing more.
Greetings Daniel
What a huge project!
Good work so far.
Hope seeing more.
Greetings Daniel
Graywolfgang
Louisiana, United States
Joined: November 28, 2006
KitMaker: 303 posts
Armorama: 251 posts
Joined: November 28, 2006
KitMaker: 303 posts
Armorama: 251 posts
Posted: Friday, April 08, 2011 - 06:03 PM UTC
Boy you have taken the bull by the horns on this one. I saw a wright up on this kit somewhere back a couple of years ago. I don’t remember where, but they said it was a BIG PIG. And for the price, HAHAHA. I am doing a BP 44 in 1/35 scale. Been working on mine for the last ten years or so. I wish you luck in getting this pig done before it hits the trash can.
Korpse
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 - 11:52 AM UTC
@Alexander
thanks for the link to the book - I have the other 3 Sawodny has written on German Armored Trains, I wonder what new stuff will be in this book.
re the barrels - you are right, I have ordered some brass ones
@Daniel
thanks for the words of encouragment
@Wolf
yes there is no denying this kit has many problems.
I'm aiming to make it better, I don't think its possible to make this kit perfect.
For those with the time and skills, a total scratchbuild would still have its problems, as Trojca's plans are the only reference material I know of, and these have some detail differences to actual photos.
Parts of this kit will wind up in the trashcan as they are unusable & will be replaced or scratchbuilt, but the train will be finished, I'm enjoying the challenge of making what few dare to attempt.
cheers
Neil
thanks for the link to the book - I have the other 3 Sawodny has written on German Armored Trains, I wonder what new stuff will be in this book.
re the barrels - you are right, I have ordered some brass ones
@Daniel
thanks for the words of encouragment
@Wolf
yes there is no denying this kit has many problems.
I'm aiming to make it better, I don't think its possible to make this kit perfect.
For those with the time and skills, a total scratchbuild would still have its problems, as Trojca's plans are the only reference material I know of, and these have some detail differences to actual photos.
Parts of this kit will wind up in the trashcan as they are unusable & will be replaced or scratchbuilt, but the train will be finished, I'm enjoying the challenge of making what few dare to attempt.
cheers
Neil
Korpse
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 - 12:00 PM UTC
Hello
heres an update on progress.
I have started on the Kommandowagen.
As per usual getting the four sides and roof to fit takes a lot of sanding, then filling, then more sanding. I've also cut open a few view ports.
The hardest part of this wagon is the large frame antenna thats on the roof. It has 14 supports and is multi angled. Whats in the kit has been badly moulded - sections of the frame aerial are missing !
I'm looking at making a replacement from music wire, or maybe brass. Before I can start that I had to make sure the joins of the sides ends and roof were good enough, as once the aerial is on further filling and sanding won't be possible, so sprayed it with red primer to make it easy to see what still needs filling and/or sanding
As with the other two wagons, the hull base is too short by a couple of millimetres, so have added plastic cards to the ends, cut off the handles and fasteners and are replacing them.
below are some progress shots
while I had the red primer out, I also sprayed the other two wagons to see how their joins look, and to see what parts need more work, both are still being tweaked.
heres an update on progress.
I have started on the Kommandowagen.
As per usual getting the four sides and roof to fit takes a lot of sanding, then filling, then more sanding. I've also cut open a few view ports.
The hardest part of this wagon is the large frame antenna thats on the roof. It has 14 supports and is multi angled. Whats in the kit has been badly moulded - sections of the frame aerial are missing !
I'm looking at making a replacement from music wire, or maybe brass. Before I can start that I had to make sure the joins of the sides ends and roof were good enough, as once the aerial is on further filling and sanding won't be possible, so sprayed it with red primer to make it easy to see what still needs filling and/or sanding
As with the other two wagons, the hull base is too short by a couple of millimetres, so have added plastic cards to the ends, cut off the handles and fasteners and are replacing them.
below are some progress shots
while I had the red primer out, I also sprayed the other two wagons to see how their joins look, and to see what parts need more work, both are still being tweaked.
ModelBuildingTanks
Washington, United States
Joined: August 05, 2010
KitMaker: 146 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Joined: August 05, 2010
KitMaker: 146 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 - 01:08 PM UTC
This is really neat! Good job on the build so far!
Korpse
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 09:05 PM UTC
Hi Alex thanks for the kind comment
I now have the Kommandowagen close to finished.
The lower hull has the same issues as the last 2 wagons, is a 1-2 millimeter too short for the upper hull so lengthened it with some plastic card. Also cust off he handles and fasteners from the lower inspection plates, and replaced with bent wire and 0.020 evergreen strip. The steps and footrungs were made from 0.20 wire.
The upper hull required a lot of sanding, filling, then more sanding & filling to get it looking OK.
The support arms for the frame aerial & the frame aerial were made from music wire (0.20 & 0.38mm) - this is best as it holds its shape well. I used the plans from the Trojca book to get the lengths and angles as close as I could to correct.
The ventiltaion outlets on the roof were replaced with evergreen rod, drilled out, the side aerial from a paintbrush bristle,
A few shots are below of the build and the train so far. I'm still waiting on the brass barrels for the quad flak.
Next build will probably be the Panzertragerwagen. If it doesnt build up well, I may replace it with the UM kit.
cheers
Neil
PanzerAlexander
Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: February 17, 2010
KitMaker: 625 posts
Armorama: 608 posts
Joined: February 17, 2010
KitMaker: 625 posts
Armorama: 608 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 01:36 AM UTC
Neil,
Great job on the aerial. I have never used guital wire, I'll give it a try.
How did you glue it on the supports?
P.A.
Great job on the aerial. I have never used guital wire, I'll give it a try.
How did you glue it on the supports?
P.A.
PedroA
Valencia, Spain / España
Joined: December 27, 2010
KitMaker: 324 posts
Armorama: 322 posts
Joined: December 27, 2010
KitMaker: 324 posts
Armorama: 322 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 02:09 AM UTC
Great work Neil.
have you soldered the railing?
Regards. Pedro.
have you soldered the railing?
Regards. Pedro.
Korpse
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - 09:48 PM UTC
Hello
Pedro and Alexander regarding the aerial, thanks for your comments
Its made from KS Engineering Music Wire, from the USA. I used 0.20 and 0.15 for the supports and actual aerial. I tried soldering but the steel wire wouldn't take it well. So had to resort to superglue.
I had brass wire which should have soldered nicely, but the brass wire is so soft when its this thin that is very hard to get the sharp straight lines that I could get with the KS wire - the KS wire is quite hard to bend, but for that reason the straight parts don't lose their straight shape, whereas with brass I found it very hard to keep the straight parts 100% straight.
Its been a while since I updated, have made progress on a Panzertragerwagen (tub wagon for the T-38), a Panzerjagerwagen, and a Tender. This is an update on progress, none are finished to the point that they are ready for paint, just yet.
Tender.
As always the parts don't want to fit, so had to carve and sand them a lot to get reasonable joins.
I made handles and foot rungs from wire - 26 in all, as the kit ones are badly cast, and impossible to remove from the sprue without breaking them.
The Panzertragerwagen.
Again poor fitting parts requiring a lot of sanding to get this one assembled. Compared to the UM kit, this one has softer detail. Dimensions of both this and the UM kit are very close to each other. I have checked length of the wagon against the plans in the Trojca book (converting to 1/72 scale) and the length is just about spot on. Maybe other dimensions may be as accurate or less so, either way I'm more interested in progressing the build with my spare time. The sides are quite straight, and painted up this should be quite a passable wagon, only let down by soft casting of the details.
The T-38 panzer that comes with the kit is quite poorly cast, I'll be replacing it with a UM T-38.
The Panzerjagerwagen
In real life there were two separate types of Panzerjagerwagen both mounted a Pz IV turret, but that is the main similarity. Each had a differently shaped wagon body, and one version had a large wooden box mounted at one end, and many other smaller differences. I'm not sure which was the 'earlier' or the 'later'
The version in this kit is the one without the wooden box, and with turret skirts and skirts around 3 sides of the upper superstructure that the turret is mounted on.
Putty and sanding was needed to get a good join between the upper and lower body. The 'cow-catcher' scoop at the front protruded too far out, requiring the part of the underbody needing a bit of a trim, and the cowcatcher needed firm pressure to fix it correctly in place.
The kit lacks details on the end seen in photos of the real thing, and these details are not in Trojca's plans which have both versions of this wagon.
I am building this wagon to match the photo.
The turret in the kit seems to be a not very good copy of an ESCI panzer IV turret, so am not using it, will use a replacement turret instead. Had to cut a neat round hole to take it, as the kit comes with just a small mounting hole.
End details were made from wire and evergreen, and are not finished. I will remove the kit head lamp/tail lamp and scratch something better, one is missing from the sprue anyway.
Also have ordered some anti-slip treadplate for the flat surfaces on the top of the wagon and a brass barrel for the turret
pics are below will paste more as more progress is achieved
cheers
Neil
Pedro and Alexander regarding the aerial, thanks for your comments
Its made from KS Engineering Music Wire, from the USA. I used 0.20 and 0.15 for the supports and actual aerial. I tried soldering but the steel wire wouldn't take it well. So had to resort to superglue.
I had brass wire which should have soldered nicely, but the brass wire is so soft when its this thin that is very hard to get the sharp straight lines that I could get with the KS wire - the KS wire is quite hard to bend, but for that reason the straight parts don't lose their straight shape, whereas with brass I found it very hard to keep the straight parts 100% straight.
Its been a while since I updated, have made progress on a Panzertragerwagen (tub wagon for the T-38), a Panzerjagerwagen, and a Tender. This is an update on progress, none are finished to the point that they are ready for paint, just yet.
Tender.
As always the parts don't want to fit, so had to carve and sand them a lot to get reasonable joins.
I made handles and foot rungs from wire - 26 in all, as the kit ones are badly cast, and impossible to remove from the sprue without breaking them.
The Panzertragerwagen.
Again poor fitting parts requiring a lot of sanding to get this one assembled. Compared to the UM kit, this one has softer detail. Dimensions of both this and the UM kit are very close to each other. I have checked length of the wagon against the plans in the Trojca book (converting to 1/72 scale) and the length is just about spot on. Maybe other dimensions may be as accurate or less so, either way I'm more interested in progressing the build with my spare time. The sides are quite straight, and painted up this should be quite a passable wagon, only let down by soft casting of the details.
The T-38 panzer that comes with the kit is quite poorly cast, I'll be replacing it with a UM T-38.
The Panzerjagerwagen
In real life there were two separate types of Panzerjagerwagen both mounted a Pz IV turret, but that is the main similarity. Each had a differently shaped wagon body, and one version had a large wooden box mounted at one end, and many other smaller differences. I'm not sure which was the 'earlier' or the 'later'
The version in this kit is the one without the wooden box, and with turret skirts and skirts around 3 sides of the upper superstructure that the turret is mounted on.
Putty and sanding was needed to get a good join between the upper and lower body. The 'cow-catcher' scoop at the front protruded too far out, requiring the part of the underbody needing a bit of a trim, and the cowcatcher needed firm pressure to fix it correctly in place.
The kit lacks details on the end seen in photos of the real thing, and these details are not in Trojca's plans which have both versions of this wagon.
I am building this wagon to match the photo.
The turret in the kit seems to be a not very good copy of an ESCI panzer IV turret, so am not using it, will use a replacement turret instead. Had to cut a neat round hole to take it, as the kit comes with just a small mounting hole.
End details were made from wire and evergreen, and are not finished. I will remove the kit head lamp/tail lamp and scratch something better, one is missing from the sprue anyway.
Also have ordered some anti-slip treadplate for the flat surfaces on the top of the wagon and a brass barrel for the turret
pics are below will paste more as more progress is achieved
cheers
Neil
Gorizont
Sachsen, Germany
Joined: November 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,462 posts
Armorama: 1,289 posts
Joined: November 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,462 posts
Armorama: 1,289 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - 11:55 PM UTC
Wow, what a big kit!
There is a lot to fill, detail and improve... but the result looks very impressive!
greetings...
Soeren
There is a lot to fill, detail and improve... but the result looks very impressive!
greetings...
Soeren
Korpse
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Joined: October 06, 2009
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 07:50 PM UTC
Hello Soeren
thanks, yes its a project getting this train built, thanks for the comment
I have the main assembly of the armoured locomotive finished, but still a lot of work needed on this one.
Comparing the kit to Trojca's plans, some of the access hatches in the armour are in the wrong places, or there is no hatch where there should be. There are also some hatches that should not be there at all, and some are the wrong shape and size.
Also 3 of the 5 access ladders on the sides are in the wrong place
Given Trojca's plans are the only clear reference material I'll presume they are correct. Trumpeter's 1/35th loco conforms to these plans also
Some of the hatches are poorly cast, as well as being in the wrong place or the wrong shape, so I'll cut most off and replace them with card and make ladders, steps, and grab handles from wire.
Below is the basic loco before any of the above work has been done, I'll post updated pictures of that progress soon
cheers
Neil
thanks, yes its a project getting this train built, thanks for the comment
I have the main assembly of the armoured locomotive finished, but still a lot of work needed on this one.
Comparing the kit to Trojca's plans, some of the access hatches in the armour are in the wrong places, or there is no hatch where there should be. There are also some hatches that should not be there at all, and some are the wrong shape and size.
Also 3 of the 5 access ladders on the sides are in the wrong place
Given Trojca's plans are the only clear reference material I'll presume they are correct. Trumpeter's 1/35th loco conforms to these plans also
Some of the hatches are poorly cast, as well as being in the wrong place or the wrong shape, so I'll cut most off and replace them with card and make ladders, steps, and grab handles from wire.
Below is the basic loco before any of the above work has been done, I'll post updated pictures of that progress soon
cheers
Neil
PanzerAlexander
Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: February 17, 2010
KitMaker: 625 posts
Armorama: 608 posts
Joined: February 17, 2010
KitMaker: 625 posts
Armorama: 608 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 10:04 AM UTC
Keep it up buddy, I 'm sure it's be a great model at the end.
P.A.
P.A.