For those who may be abit afraid of jumping into color modulation or unsure how the effect will look under subsequent weathering....
Here are few pics. of a Panther that has been base coated in this way and only weathered on the Glacis plate.
You can see how the base color has been toned down by a little weathering. The extreme color shift is toned down and leaves an interesting finish. I hope this gives ya a bit of inspiration to get out that airbrush and put it to work!
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
Color Modulation + Weathering
collin26
Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Monday, March 28, 2011 - 11:20 AM UTC
c5flies
California, United States
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Posted: Monday, March 28, 2011 - 12:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I hope this gives ya a bit of inspiration to get out that airbrush and put it to work!
Yes it does! Now I just have to actually build something to paint first
Very nicely done Iain, was this streaked with the AK effects? I've tried the CM with weathering using acrylics, but not the enamels yet.
collin26
Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Monday, March 28, 2011 - 01:26 PM UTC
James,
Thanks for the kind words. This was done at the "Wings & Wheels" show in Mass. on Sunday as a demonstration. So far a wash of "Wash Dark Brown", some "Streaking Grime", "Rust Streaks" & a mix of "Dust Effects" & "Fresh Mud" Chipping was done with Vallejo Surface Primer and a small pointer brush using RAL8000 German Green Brown & RAL7021 German Panzer Grey for deeper two layer chips.
Will use this Panther & a T-34 dressed in 4BO Russian Green for upcomming demos and will post up more pics soon!
More than anything I would like to field questions from other modelers on this one as the Color Modulation can be tough to get a handle on..........but with a bit of practice is actually very natural and can be easy.
Thanks for the kind words. This was done at the "Wings & Wheels" show in Mass. on Sunday as a demonstration. So far a wash of "Wash Dark Brown", some "Streaking Grime", "Rust Streaks" & a mix of "Dust Effects" & "Fresh Mud" Chipping was done with Vallejo Surface Primer and a small pointer brush using RAL8000 German Green Brown & RAL7021 German Panzer Grey for deeper two layer chips.
Will use this Panther & a T-34 dressed in 4BO Russian Green for upcomming demos and will post up more pics soon!
More than anything I would like to field questions from other modelers on this one as the Color Modulation can be tough to get a handle on..........but with a bit of practice is actually very natural and can be easy.
reccymech
Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Monday, March 28, 2011 - 02:14 PM UTC
oh to get to that level of experience, very impressive. Well, I'm at the 'baby steps' stage, although I have just purchased an AB (Iwata) and will be trialling all methods mentioned here and throughout this forum.
Thanks for all the great information.
Thanks for all the great information.
Posted: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 01:31 AM UTC
Thanks for that Iain, it looks really good.
I just got the 4BO green set from creative models and I'll be trying it on a Zvezda BTR-80A soon enough.
I just got the 4BO green set from creative models and I'll be trying it on a Zvezda BTR-80A soon enough.
dlesko
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Posted: Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 05:57 AM UTC
Collin, i love how this looks. Takes the one color scheme to a whole new level. Can you go into a bit more detail on how you did the weathering so that we can really get an idea of what changed the original paint you put down? Maybe be a bit more specific because this looks great and id like to give it a go with the M1A2 im about to start. Thanks.
collin26
Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 02:16 PM UTC
Dave,
Of course! And thank you for the kind words, I am very glad that this gives you an idea for your M1A2.
What I have done on this Panther is to apply a range of many different tones of Dunkelgelb ranging from dark to light. The darkest tones were applied to the lower areas and areas of natural shadow, the brighter-lighter tones were applied to the upper surfaces & horizontal surfaces that would be under direct light.
The next step was to accent the details with contrasting tones of the same colors. You will notice that weld beads, bolt heads etc. have been picked out with light tones.
A wash made by thinning AK Interactive's "Streaking Grime" with white spirit was applied to recessed areas and corners.
This same "Streaking Grime" was used straight from the bottle to create the vertical streaking effects that you see decending from the top of the glacis plate. An effort should be made to use this step to place emphasis on darker areas of natural shadow such as under the ball mount.
The next step was to spray a thinned application of AK Interactive "Dust Effects" on the lower edges of the fenders and the lower portion of the glacis plate. Next, this aplication of dust was "Pulled" upwards with a chisel brush that is just humid with white spirit in order to blend the transition of the effect.
Each of these effects acts as a sort of filter to the Dunkelgelb base color as well as serves to show weathering of the vehicle.
I hope that this is helpful. If I did not answer your question, please let me know and I will have another crack at it!
I hope that you will share your Abrams with us as it developes friend!
Of course! And thank you for the kind words, I am very glad that this gives you an idea for your M1A2.
What I have done on this Panther is to apply a range of many different tones of Dunkelgelb ranging from dark to light. The darkest tones were applied to the lower areas and areas of natural shadow, the brighter-lighter tones were applied to the upper surfaces & horizontal surfaces that would be under direct light.
The next step was to accent the details with contrasting tones of the same colors. You will notice that weld beads, bolt heads etc. have been picked out with light tones.
A wash made by thinning AK Interactive's "Streaking Grime" with white spirit was applied to recessed areas and corners.
This same "Streaking Grime" was used straight from the bottle to create the vertical streaking effects that you see decending from the top of the glacis plate. An effort should be made to use this step to place emphasis on darker areas of natural shadow such as under the ball mount.
The next step was to spray a thinned application of AK Interactive "Dust Effects" on the lower edges of the fenders and the lower portion of the glacis plate. Next, this aplication of dust was "Pulled" upwards with a chisel brush that is just humid with white spirit in order to blend the transition of the effect.
Each of these effects acts as a sort of filter to the Dunkelgelb base color as well as serves to show weathering of the vehicle.
I hope that this is helpful. If I did not answer your question, please let me know and I will have another crack at it!
I hope that you will share your Abrams with us as it developes friend!
dlesko
Alabama, United States
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Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2011 - 03:50 PM UTC
I agree that the initial base coat looks fake but once the weathering is added, like on the glacis plate, i think it looks great. I'm looking forward to trying this. I personally am getting sick of all the over weathered vehicles you see now at shows and online, i like to model the vehicle, not its environment. To me the vehicle is the main character and the over weathering you see now takes away from it. I like how this gives depth to the vehicles shape and with the right weathering, which definitely tones down the effect, it looks great.
Krieg-Hammer
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Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2011 - 09:12 PM UTC
Maybe we should all go for the 'Factory New' look.... Modelling would be dead Easier then
collin26
Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Monday, June 13, 2011 - 09:37 AM UTC
Brian,
Honostly, I have not engaged in this conversation because it is a bit to confrontational for my liking.
This Panther was done simply for demonstration purposes. It was used for a live demo and exagerated for that very reason....just to make the point that weathering will greatly change the base colors applied to our models.
I would love to engage in a good natured discussion about styles & weathering for sure friend! I am here!
Like I have stated in the past, forum like Armorama are here for modelers like you and I to throw ideas around and learn from one another.
It is great that you and I have different styles of painting, this is what keeps modeling interesting. If we all painted the same exact way, this would be a very boring hobby - art form correct?
Please, share your thoughts?
Honostly, I have not engaged in this conversation because it is a bit to confrontational for my liking.
This Panther was done simply for demonstration purposes. It was used for a live demo and exagerated for that very reason....just to make the point that weathering will greatly change the base colors applied to our models.
I would love to engage in a good natured discussion about styles & weathering for sure friend! I am here!
Like I have stated in the past, forum like Armorama are here for modelers like you and I to throw ideas around and learn from one another.
It is great that you and I have different styles of painting, this is what keeps modeling interesting. If we all painted the same exact way, this would be a very boring hobby - art form correct?
Please, share your thoughts?
scratchmod
Massachusetts, United States
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Posted: Monday, June 13, 2011 - 09:54 AM UTC
Well I don't really go for the CM much. I do use a form of it to show shadow and lightened areas. For the types of models I build it's pretty much useless to paint in this fashion...but I do respect others who do the CM. This does take skill to do correctly. The weathering that follows the CM blends all the colors together and will hardly be noticeable in the end. This is also where the modelers skills come in, the use of pin washes and filters.
This technique is an art form and is not to every ones liking, but it does not mean it's wrong. It's like the new fad with Panzer Grey. Modelers are going with a blue color whereas the actual color is a very dark grey, and not blue. But if you went with the real color on a model it would be a junk of black plastic. The lighter color, blue, lends its self better to weathering and looks pretty cool. To each his own I guess.
No one can really say what is right and what is wrong, I don't think many of us were around back then to remember what and how vehicles really looked during combat.
just my 2 pennies worth. I for one will be giving this a try and if I don't like it I will not put down others who do like this technique.
Cheers
Rob
This technique is an art form and is not to every ones liking, but it does not mean it's wrong. It's like the new fad with Panzer Grey. Modelers are going with a blue color whereas the actual color is a very dark grey, and not blue. But if you went with the real color on a model it would be a junk of black plastic. The lighter color, blue, lends its self better to weathering and looks pretty cool. To each his own I guess.
No one can really say what is right and what is wrong, I don't think many of us were around back then to remember what and how vehicles really looked during combat.
just my 2 pennies worth. I for one will be giving this a try and if I don't like it I will not put down others who do like this technique.
Cheers
Rob
dlesko
Alabama, United States
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Posted: Monday, June 13, 2011 - 09:54 AM UTC
Why has this topic suddenly turned confrontational? Its a hobby for Gods sake, chill out. Paint how you want and let others do the same. What gives anyone the right to say who is right and who is wrong and why does he have to "Stand up" for his technique? You act like he did something wrong. If you don't agree with how a model is painted so be it, paint your model your own way. It would be a boring hobby is everyone's model looked the same wouldn't it? If you don't like the way the style looks don't buy the product, there are plenty of other people who will. I personally think that a model caked in dust with very little shading or highlighting looks bad but, who am i to say its wrong? Everyone should have their own style. As for shinny paint, that's not what this technique is trying to portray. Its depicting a light source and giving the model a little more depth and shape. I personally love how it looks and im looking forward to trying it on my next model. Now, can everyone be a bit more civil? Maybe state your arguments for or against in a less confrontational way?
ProfessorP
Minnesota, United States
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Posted: Monday, June 13, 2011 - 10:18 AM UTC
Yes, I think this is just very much a "style" issue and an exercise in artistic creativity. Certainly this hobby is big enough that there's room for all aspects of building and painting without getting our collective undershorts in a bunch over it. This discussiont reminds me a lot of the heated debates in the wargaming miniatures community a few years ago over the Non-Metallic Metal (NMM) technique that suddenly came into vogue. While I saw a number of really well executed representations of this technique, I personally could not get my head around using a 2D techniques of light reflection on a 3D figure. Not only that but it had a real tendency to look awesome in photos, but really odd in real life, especially when you looked at the figure from anywhere but the intended angle. Nevertheless, there was some really creative work being done and those that mastered that technique also tended to be the ones who were able to expand their abilities and creativity in other aspects of miniatures painting.
Having said that, I have a few questions about the technique used on the particular example of color modulation on the model in this thread. Is there a specific reason why the hatches in the hull are shaded so much darker than the surrounding hull armor? It seems to me that they are on the same plane and would be lighted the same way so I don't quite understand the "light source" element of color modulation in this instance. Same goes for the gun mantlet. Or are the hatches and mantlet an example of "artistic" coloration where the purpose is simply to define them from the surrounding area by varying the color, regardless of lighting restrictions? If so, is there a "rule" for when light sourcing is broken and when it is adhered to? Any clarification would be appreciated.
Thanks for shedding some more light (groan...) on this fascinating technique and don't let the grumpy ones deter you from posting more examples in the future!
Having said that, I have a few questions about the technique used on the particular example of color modulation on the model in this thread. Is there a specific reason why the hatches in the hull are shaded so much darker than the surrounding hull armor? It seems to me that they are on the same plane and would be lighted the same way so I don't quite understand the "light source" element of color modulation in this instance. Same goes for the gun mantlet. Or are the hatches and mantlet an example of "artistic" coloration where the purpose is simply to define them from the surrounding area by varying the color, regardless of lighting restrictions? If so, is there a "rule" for when light sourcing is broken and when it is adhered to? Any clarification would be appreciated.
Thanks for shedding some more light (groan...) on this fascinating technique and don't let the grumpy ones deter you from posting more examples in the future!
scratchmod
Massachusetts, United States
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Posted: Monday, June 13, 2011 - 10:37 AM UTC
It does all boil down to ones "personal taste". I like to try new things so I will be giving this a try soon. Actually I have started a demo turret PZIV painted in panzer grey CM. I can't really say I like the CM at it's full extent but has potential if done less extreme. For a practice or demo model you can't always go the normal route.
When I see reviews of products that have been done on white styrene, I know it will look different on a real model. It's all in the palate that is being used., Here he has shown how it could look, maybe extreme in areas, but it is for demo purposes. It has been done correctly which is a good thing because one can see how it really looks. It would have been worse if he used the technique incorrectly and not really showing what it is suppose to look. This is one thing that bothers me, some one doing a product review and the person clearly has not got the technique down.
Again, these are just my opinions. And yes it would be boring if we all agreed and also painted the same. As long as no one gets offended it's okay to discuss this.
Later fellas.
Cheers
Rob
When I see reviews of products that have been done on white styrene, I know it will look different on a real model. It's all in the palate that is being used., Here he has shown how it could look, maybe extreme in areas, but it is for demo purposes. It has been done correctly which is a good thing because one can see how it really looks. It would have been worse if he used the technique incorrectly and not really showing what it is suppose to look. This is one thing that bothers me, some one doing a product review and the person clearly has not got the technique down.
Again, these are just my opinions. And yes it would be boring if we all agreed and also painted the same. As long as no one gets offended it's okay to discuss this.
Later fellas.
Cheers
Rob
CDK
Massachusetts, United States
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Posted: Monday, June 13, 2011 - 11:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Why has this topic suddenly turned confrontational? Its a hobby for Gods sake, chill out. Paint how you want and let others do the same. What gives anyone the right to say who is right and who is wrong and why does he have to "Stand up" for his technique? You act like he did something wrong. If you don't agree with how a model is painted so be it, paint your model your own way. It would be a boring hobby is everyone's model looked the same wouldn't it? If you don't like the way the style looks don't buy the product, there are plenty of other people who will. I personally think that a model caked in dust with very little shading or highlighting looks bad but, who am i to say its wrong? Everyone should have their own style. As for shinny paint, that's not what this technique is trying to portray. Its depicting a light source and giving the model a little more depth and shape. I personally love how it looks and im looking forward to trying it on my next model. Now, can everyone be a bit more civil? Maybe state your arguments for or against in a less confrontational way?
Awesome post and you're right it's a hobby. It's discouraging to see a vendor become so hostile over such a silly little thing like this but I know where I wont be spending any of my money.
Good grief, while everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions as well as their own modeling techniques, lets try and do it without judgmental attitudes or assumptions about ones motives. I for one enjoy painting in this style. I also enjoy chipping and making my builds extremely dirty and beaten up. Do I do it because it's the latest fad? NO. Do I do it because it's totally real? NO.
I build how I like and I like how I build.
Here's my take on color modulation. Real or fake, I enjoyed every bit of it. I'm sure I over weathered it, got the shade of Olive Drab wrong, over chipped it and maybe even missed a few rivets but that's ok, I'm happy.
Thanks for sharing your work Iain,
Ken
CDK
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Posted: Monday, June 13, 2011 - 11:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
and to the last guy
vendors are not people? Can't have their opinions on a specific technique or product?
Laughable.
Are you serious?
Quoted Text
Good grief, while everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions as well as their own modeling techniques, lets try and do it without judgmental attitudes or assumptions about ones motives.
Yes, laughable is the word I would use.
SteveReid
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Posted: Monday, June 13, 2011 - 12:00 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I build how I like and I like how I build.
Ken
Well spoken Ken! Always eloquent.
Here's my take on color modulation.
I want to learn to paint like this:
Without seeing it for myself- I would not have thought that it had passed through a stage like this:
Keep doing what you are doing Iain! If the vitriolic comments tell you anything its that what takes place between the modulation and the finished product still confuses many people. I count myself in that group. But I am not so afraid of change that I plan to stay there.
Steve
CDK
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Posted: Monday, June 13, 2011 - 12:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
you do know that I meant your painting (weathering) is laughable right?
Thank you for your kind words!
Your humbleness and helpful words of encouragement will ring loud and clear in the ears of all who read them here.
All the best to you in the future,
Posted: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 01:31 AM UTC
Well said with both your posts Ken, I totally agree and I think your example of CM is excellent- you have the light versus dark just right- and the finished model is very nice.
Having tried CM myself I can say it does appear a little strange at first but I think one thing needs to be remembered- with drybrushing, filters and washes etc you can tone down areas you think may have gone too light.
I really think people should take a crack at this technique (if they are interested- if you are comfortable with how you paint then so be it- no one is forcing anyone to change the way they paint) before dismissing it- and if people want to dicuss it then it should be done in a civil and constructive manner- something rhe majority of people on armorama understand.
Having tried CM myself I can say it does appear a little strange at first but I think one thing needs to be remembered- with drybrushing, filters and washes etc you can tone down areas you think may have gone too light.
I really think people should take a crack at this technique (if they are interested- if you are comfortable with how you paint then so be it- no one is forcing anyone to change the way they paint) before dismissing it- and if people want to dicuss it then it should be done in a civil and constructive manner- something rhe majority of people on armorama understand.