Osprey is well known for their various series of small but informative books aimed at the modeler, wargamer and history buff. I don’t know about you, but their Duel series, launched in 2007 with volumes on the P-51 vs. Fw 190, Firefly vs. Tiger and U-Boats vs. Destroyer Escorts, has really pulled me in. I like the idea of books that directly address these kinds of match ups and I like building to those themes, to show in model form what they look like next to each other.

This naturally led to an idea for a campaign. To celebrate the 5th anniversary of the series in 2012, how about a Duel campaign? The idea would be to build two models to depict a duel as described in one of the Osprey books. You could build any two subjects as long as they fit the parameters of the book. Thus any Panther and Sherman from the Battle of the Bulge, not necessarily the specific ones on the cover, but not a Panther D and M4A2 from the Russian front.

As they’ve done several books on aircraft, armor and ships it would be a cross-site campaign and would run for a year (since we’re talking at least two models to qualify), probably from January 1, 2012 to December 31, 2012.

This one’s sort of been percolating in the back of my mind for a while and I thought it was time to air it out and see what people think. Let us know if you’d be interested and let’s see if we can generate something here!

Michael

Sounds like a great idea, but does it have to be a picture from the Osprey books? can a duel scenario be taken from another source/image?

i.e ......

Well there have been some pretty positive responses so far, thanks all! A couple of modifications have been suggested:

1. A lot of people are signed up for multiple campaigns and the idea of finishing two models for one campaign may limit participation. Vance on AeroScale suggests that when a similar duel concept was done a few years ago, participants paired up and each built one side of the duel. This wasn’t my original concept, though I’m certainly open to it if you all think it would be better that way. One idea I did have about this was to allow started models up to a certain aggregate percentage. Thus (for instance) if the limit is no more than 25% started, the modeler could have each kit 25% started or one kit unstarted and the other 50% done. As I say, however, I’m open to suggestions on what you could get behind!

2. Duncan on Armorama asks about expanding past the Osprey series and allowing other combinations of vehicles which would fit the Duel concept but haven’t been done in one of the books (yet). He shows a picture of a Jagdpanther and an M10 (I think, sorry if I screwed that up Duncan!) My first take on this one is no, the idea was to sort of commemorate the series’ 5th anniversary, so the builds should be limited to subjects that have specific books in the series (though new and announced volumes would be OK). Again, however, I’m fully open to what the actual participants want to see!

Let’s keep the discussion going and let us know what you think! I’m planning on writing an email to Osprey later today making sure we wouldn’t be stepping on their toes by doing this and I’ll let you know what they say. They certainly should be OK, it seems to me that this would be a good promotion for their product!

Michael

I like the idea of people signing up for opposing vehicles from the same book. You would have a really unique campaign if you went that route, and I think it would be pretty fun.

There are plenty of options for dueling partners throughout Osprey's line of books. If you go this route then I'll hold from selecting a build in case someone is signed up without an opposing builder.

Interesting idea and I like the idea of matching up opposing builds.
I had no idea there so many titles in the series here's a link to a list of titles on Amazon- I don't know if it's complete.

they're are several I'd be interested in.

Ditto to both Pat and Jeremy's posts. I think this is an awesome idea for two campaigners to build one of the books' two adversaries. I have quite a few already listed that aren't spoken for in the upcoming campaigns, but any excuse to buy more plastic is always a good one!

Wow, even more response! I seem to have touched a live one! That’s fine with me!

The ship and armor guys seem to be coming down solidly on the idea of a buddy-build, where two builders team up to do a single Duel build. OK with me, the public has spoken! Still, I’d like it to keep it open to the over-commitment types (me, me!) as well, so I’d say you can buddy up with someone or do two yourself.

Harm from ModelShipwrights asks about doing two vehicles which meet the basic criteria but weren’t in the same “theater”. His example is a Grossdeutchland Tiger and a Canadian Firefly. I’d say no on that, as the book specifically references the Battle of the Bulge, but I wouldn’t require any showing that the exact two vehicles actually faced each other in combat; as long as they fit the book’s coverage that’s cool with me.

Pat from Armorama was surprised at how many books there already are. The Osprey site lists 39 either released or announced http://www.ospreypublishing.com/duel/ It’s interesting to see what they have done (Seafire vs. Zero, Fw Condor vs. convoy) as opposed to what they haven’t (F4F vs. A6M, F-86 vs. MiG-15), but I’m sure they have to go with what authors are willing to write. Lots of options though, that’s for sure!

Keep those cards and letters coming! Based on the responses so far, we already have 11 people interested (2 ship, 4 air, 4 armor, plus me!) after only two days!

Michael

Anyone know someone at Osprey? This sounds like a campaign they might want to support.

Gary,

I wrote to them earlier today to make sure we didn't step on any toes, but haven't heard back yet. If someone actually knows someone there, I'd be glad to take it further!

Michael

I don't think that you'd be stepping on anyone's toes with this campaign Michael. If Osprey did choose to sponsor this campaign they would end up making it into an even better promotional tool for their company.

Btw I prefer armor, but I'm willing to pair up with any subject. There are some really interesting matches such as the Ironclads, the F-105 WW vs. the SA-2 SAM, FW-200 vs. the Atlantic Convoy, M60 vs. T-62, and the wind-powered ships.

I just checked out Pat's link to the Osprey 'Duel' series (wasn't aware about them till now ) some good combination to be had, I do like the idea of building against/with someone very much so count me in, I prefer Armour but an E-Boat or Mtb might be nice.

Any ideas how you'd sort out who does what with who yet?

OK, I’m starting to firm up the rules. Please let me know if these make sense:

1. Entry must be based on a volume of the Osprey Duel series
2. Any scale, any type of subject as long as they’re from one of the books.
3. Campaign will run from 1/1/12 – 12/31/12.
4. Each entry must have at least two models (stand-alone or in a diorama OK).
5. Models must depict subjects of the type, time and place specified in the chosen book (though they do not need to be subjects specifically pictured in the book nor does the modeler need to prove that they actually met in combat).
6. Two modelers can team up to build one entry, in which case both models should be new builds. In this case, modelers are encouraged to use the campaign thread to find a partner but it’s up to the modeler to do so (the campaign leader isn’t going to team people up). If you’re doing it this way, be sure to indicate who you’re teaming with each time you post a picture (so I don’t get too confused!)
7. Alternatively, one modeler can do both models in an entry, in which case the models can be up to ¼ started in the aggregate (e.g. each model is ¼ started, or one model is unstarted and the other is ½ built. Something like that.)
8. Either method used in rules 6 or 7 will count as one entry and each modeler involved will get a ribbon.
9. Enter as many as you like and you can use different entry methods but each modeler will only get one ribbon and each model can only be part of one entry.
10. At least one in progress shot of each model should be posted in the campaign thread and at least one finished shot in the campaign gallery (if you’re teaming up, be sure to indicate in the campaign gallery which models go together.)
11. The idea here is to honor the 5th anniversary of the Duel series, maybe learn something, and have fun!

I’m trying to be as sensitive as I can to the fact that we’ve got a cross-disciplinary build going on while at the same time trying to keep some sense of continuity.

Also, please let me know if you’re actually “committing” to this campaign so I can submit it to the authorities. We already have more than 10 across the different sites who have expressed interest! Thanks to all of you for helping out!

Michael

Bump!

Haven’t heard anything for a bit. Anyone else interested in this campaign idea? I have 5 people so far!

Michael

I'm in !

I am in. However, if ones buddy does not finish his/her model one should still get a ribbon provided oneself finishes the entry. I think that would bring more support for the campaign.
It would be to bad to finish a nice entry and then not get the ribbon because ones buddy cannot finish because of real life intervening. But everybody should of course have a buddy in the first place.

I am on for either a Mustang or Fw 190 if anybody wants to be my buddy "opponent" in the air?

Actually, I've been responding on this thread on the Aeroscale site, because I was thinking of the same subject. Both the P-51 and Fw 190 are great planes! If you're still looking for a second half when this campaign goes live, I'll join Jesper!
-Sean H.

OK, Sean. I will do the Fw 190 and you will do the LA-5/7, B-17, or Mustang? Do we have a deal? The first "opponent" buddy team?

As a veteran of the original Duel in the Skies campaign I wiould be very interested in joining this show.

I have the Trumpeter Fw 200 screaming out to be built.............. so who want to build a whole Atlantic convoy against/with me

Brian

Brian, I am sure somebody from MSW would take up the challenge and make a freighter or convey escort/destroyer to battle with your Condor.

Hey Michael,

Great campaign idea! I'm enlisting for this one although I have absolutely no idea what to build.

I really like the doubles/buddies/opponents idea- I certainly haven't heard anything like that being done before.

One quick suggestion for the rules. I know that this might sound obvious, but to avoid confusion if/when folks do pair up, they should both build in the same scale. I don't think it should matter what that scale is, as long as both builds are the same size. [Imagine a 1/144 FW190 Vs a 1/24 Mustang]

I think that it also a good idea to give the campaign ribbon to someone who completes a build even if their partner doesn't. Maybe have two seperate campaign ribbons- same design, different colours, one for solo builds (of a pair) and a second for a pair build.

My two cents,

Eoin

Overall a good suggestion. However, in some cases that is going to be difficult. Imagining the Condor vs. the convoy from the previous post. Finding a 1/350 scale Condor might be difficult and be a simple build without fun for the builder. On the other hand building a 1/72 freighter or corvette can be done, but that is a really big project. Just one thing to consider.

I do not see the problem of a 1/72 B-17 bomber pairing up against a 1/48 Fw 190. It would still work in my mind.




Great idea. From managing campaigns earlier I know it is not possible technically to have two different ribbons for the same campaign. Maybe this has been solved since then. In that case we should go for it, but maybe make a ribbon for "normal" participation with one build and another ribbon for builders making both sides of the dual with two builds.

This is what I like to see, participation in planning and already setting up teams! Thanks guys!

We’ve had suggestions (above) about requiring the builds to be to the same scale and possibly having two ribbons, one for the solo participant and one for teams. There’s also been a question about who get a ribbon if one team member completes their build and the other doesn’t.

On the scale issue I don’t think we should limit it in team builds. Quite aside from the near impossibility for some subjects (eg. the Fw200 and convoy) I don't want to limit participation or teaming up if I can avoid it. Since it's unlikely that two people teaming up will ever photograph their models together (they could be on opposite sides of the world!), I don't think they need to be the same scale. As long as they fit the subject parameters, I'm fine with builders going with their interests, scale-wise.

I also agree that as long as a team is constituted and some progress is made by each member, whoever finishes should get a ribbon even if the team-mate doesn't for some reason. I don't want to cause hard feelings between team members and we all know that life happens! On the other hand, the team member who doesn’t finish would not get a ribbon.

Here's the tough part. All the above applies to those who team up with someone else. I think if you choose to go the whole-hog method and do two models yourself, you should try to build them to the same scale (if feasible, see Fw200 vs Convoy example) and should get both models done to qualify for the ribbon. I know that seems like I’m penalizing the two-model participants (which I plan to be, personally!), but I think that logically it’s the right way to go.

I don’t think it’s going to be possible to do two different ribbons, but I’ll ask. Perhaps Gary can chime in here.

As always, keep up the great suggestions! We’re at 9 participants so far!

Sean Hadfield / Windysean armorama
Simon Heatherwood / RedDuster ModelShipwrights
Jim Adams / Goldenpony ModelShipwrights
Pedro Rocha / rochaped
Paul P /ppawlak1 Armorama
Jesper / SGTJKJ Armorma but interested in aircraft (P-51 vs Fw190)
Brian Kucks / bilko Armorama but planning an Fw200
Eoin Ryan Armorama
Michael Satin

Michael

Unfortunately, there is only one ribbon allowed in a campaign.

Sounds great, Michael. I think the rules are shaping up now.

When it is approved as a campaign let me know. Then I will make a couple of banners for the campaign to spread the word and get more participants.

And thanks to Paul from Aeroscale, we’re at 10! I’m going to go ahead and submit the campaign now with the rules and clarifications as posted, though I think I can still modify them if it becomes necessary.

By the way, I’ve gotten no word from Osprey about their opinion on all this yet. While Jesper has kindly offered to do banners, I’d like to hold off for the moment until we hear from them in case we want to use any trademarked/copywrited material in the artwork.

Michael