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Some mistakes about BRONCO's M24 Chaffee tank
ABRAHAM
Joined: December 16, 2011
KitMaker: 14 posts
Armorama: 13 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 08:24 PM UTC
well,i just got the kit from shop,but when i open it and use some photos for reference,i'm really disappointed. Its turret and chassis have some seriously problem.
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 09:25 PM UTC
You're a "rivet conter" aren't you? 
I' d call them "some minor flaws" rather than "serious problems"
Anyway in my opinion correcting all them will be quite easy
Cheers
I' d call them "some minor flaws" rather than "serious problems"
Anyway in my opinion correcting all them will be quite easy
Cheers
Dutchy3RTR
Joined: June 28, 2009
KitMaker: 340 posts
Armorama: 337 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 10:55 PM UTC
Looking at 2 out of 3 posts that you've made, I'm guessing you possibly have affiliations with another manufactirer Abraham?
As Mauro said, they're hardly major errors and would be an easy fix for a rivet counter.
As Mauro said, they're hardly major errors and would be an easy fix for a rivet counter.
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 11:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Looking at 2 out of 3 posts that you've made, I'm guessing you possibly have affiliations with another manufactirer Abraham?
That's my guess too. Very suspicious...................
afv_rob
Joined: October 09, 2005
KitMaker: 2,556 posts
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Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 12:08 AM UTC
Well this guy probably works for AFV Club, but whatever. I wouldn't call that turret line issue a 'minor problem', that looks pretty major to me and quite difficult to correct. This isn't a problem for me because I have zero interest in this kit, but i'm sure a lot of people will find that troublesome.
jon_a_its
Joined: April 29, 2004
KitMaker: 1,336 posts
Armorama: 1,137 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 12:48 AM UTC
Sooo...
Its it going to be better than the Italeri kit?
(which I have built, which was also good for it's day....)
I will certainly look forward to the UK version, Once I got all this lovely new Artillery!
So It's a buyers' call, Bronco, who announce when they have plastic, & release it soon?
Or wait for AFV Club (who also do cracking kits, lovely AVRES' & Churchills, yum-yum) who do an artists' impression that's 6 years old?
Its it going to be better than the Italeri kit?
(which I have built, which was also good for it's day....)
I will certainly look forward to the UK version, Once I got all this lovely new Artillery!
So It's a buyers' call, Bronco, who announce when they have plastic, & release it soon?
Or wait for AFV Club (who also do cracking kits, lovely AVRES' & Churchills, yum-yum) who do an artists' impression that's 6 years old?
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 01:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Well this guy probably works for AFV Club, but whatever. I wouldn't call that turret line issue a 'minor problem', that looks pretty major to me and quite difficult to correct. This isn't a problem for me because I have zero interest in this kit, but i'm sure a lot of people will find that troublesome.
Hi Rob well you're not interested and neither am I, although i'm happy that a new kit of a famous subject finally has finally been made
But anyway I'd like to know why do you think it would be a problem?
It seems to me that sanding away the weld seam could be enough to correct it...Correcting the corner would be a problem, but honestly it seems to me in the right position...
so what do you mean ?
Cheers
Removed by original poster on 12/16/11 - 13:51:42 (GMT).
jointhepit
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 3,829 posts
Armorama: 881 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 02:04 AM UTC
at first I was thinkin'
"aha someone has found some big mistake in a recent kit"
after reading this post , I must agree with Mauro, minnor problems, solved within hours , if these are the only BIG flaws this kit has, I'm sure gonna buy one, I can name 10 kits that have a page of flaws
givin' the fact that this is an attempt to make the kit look bad comming from someone from another firm hidding behind a forum nick, is really disgusting, hope that doesn't stand for AFV compagny policy!
Sad thing this post|:(
still gonna buy one, it's a very intresting subject, and used in different conflicts!
Greetz Tha Pit
"aha someone has found some big mistake in a recent kit"
after reading this post , I must agree with Mauro, minnor problems, solved within hours , if these are the only BIG flaws this kit has, I'm sure gonna buy one, I can name 10 kits that have a page of flaws
givin' the fact that this is an attempt to make the kit look bad comming from someone from another firm hidding behind a forum nick, is really disgusting, hope that doesn't stand for AFV compagny policy!
Sad thing this post|:(
still gonna buy one, it's a very intresting subject, and used in different conflicts!
Greetz Tha Pit
afv_rob
Joined: October 09, 2005
KitMaker: 2,556 posts
Armorama: 2,199 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 02:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextWell this guy probably works for AFV Club, but whatever. I wouldn't call that turret line issue a 'minor problem', that looks pretty major to me and quite difficult to correct. This isn't a problem for me because I have zero interest in this kit, but i'm sure a lot of people will find that troublesome.
Hi Rob well you're not interested and neither am I, although i'm happy that a new kit of a famous subject finally has finally been made
But anyway I'd like to know why do you think it would be a problem?
It seems to me that sanding away the weld seam could be enough to correct it...Correcting the corner would be a problem, but honestly it seems to me in the right position...
so what do you mean ?
Cheers
If you look closely at the pictures posted and also the previous news report you will notice that the weld line is also the point at which the turret slopes at an angle forward. Looking at the the actual turret picture the slope line is clearly just in front of the ventilator dome. You can see also that as a result of this error the loaders hatch on the Bronco kit looks too big compared to the real thing.
I hope you see what I mean, look at the photo of the actual turret Abraham posted initially (the bottom one) and then the Bronco turret:
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 02:20 AM UTC
Am I the only one who can't see Abraham's pictures? (All I get is the dreaded red X...) I tried looking at his gallery, and the five images there are just red X's too.
Tom
Tom
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 02:29 AM UTC
Yes, now I've understood
I thought the red line on the right pic of the sprue , spotted the slope line of the kit, not the actual one
Anyway, yes this is a major issue, but however the kit looks very good in my humble opinion.
Thanks a llot for the explanation
I thought the red line on the right pic of the sprue , spotted the slope line of the kit, not the actual one
Anyway, yes this is a major issue, but however the kit looks very good in my humble opinion.
Thanks a llot for the explanation
bigmal
Joined: February 21, 2011
KitMaker: 211 posts
Armorama: 176 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 02:33 AM UTC
I agree that the turret has an error but it is still far better than the ancient Italeri version, as for the other very minor errors, well some one needs to get out more, two of them are underneath and won`t be seen by anyone anyway so what is the problem.
No kit is perfect. I look upon every kit as a blank canvas to build as i please, wether it is OOB or super detailed, but what i don`t do is slag a new kit off because it hasn`t got the correct amount of rivits etc, if i want to, i can add them, easy innit.
Think ourselves lucky that manufacturers still produce new kits, because if i was a model manufacturer and people slagged my kits off for the smallest thing i`d think twice about making the effort next time.
I`m just glad we have new kits of new vehicles, so just buy, build, be happy and stop moaning, you give me a headache with it
Malcolm
No kit is perfect. I look upon every kit as a blank canvas to build as i please, wether it is OOB or super detailed, but what i don`t do is slag a new kit off because it hasn`t got the correct amount of rivits etc, if i want to, i can add them, easy innit.
Think ourselves lucky that manufacturers still produce new kits, because if i was a model manufacturer and people slagged my kits off for the smallest thing i`d think twice about making the effort next time.
I`m just glad we have new kits of new vehicles, so just buy, build, be happy and stop moaning, you give me a headache with it
Malcolm
Belt_Fed
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 02:36 AM UTC
It looks like a chaffee to me....
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 03:02 AM UTC
I guess Rob at Formations made the same "mistake" when he made his resin kit, as can be seen from these images of a build over on Missing Lynx.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1220492911/1220569584/M24+Chaffee+WIP
Personally I can see differences in detail betwen the two turret pictures shown by the original poster so I'd not be surprised if this element, the turret, was changed during the production run of the tank.
With so many surviving examples around I find it hard to believe they made such a mistake, but then again its possible. Chaffee experts needed to verify this I think.
Alan
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1220492911/1220569584/M24+Chaffee+WIP
Personally I can see differences in detail betwen the two turret pictures shown by the original poster so I'd not be surprised if this element, the turret, was changed during the production run of the tank.
With so many surviving examples around I find it hard to believe they made such a mistake, but then again its possible. Chaffee experts needed to verify this I think.
Alan
windysean
Joined: September 11, 2009
KitMaker: 1,917 posts
Armorama: 735 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 03:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Am I the only one who can't see Abraham's pictures? (All I get is the dreaded red X...) I tried looking at his gallery, and the five images there are just red X's too.
Tom
No, Tom, I get just red X's too. I have to trust the descriptions posted here.
I don't know tanks, but a Chaffee (anybody's) is one of my considerations for the Light Tanks campaign. I enjoy building kits, and when the experts have found flaws, it usually drops the price down to my range.
But I do hate when I finish to find out later that there's a major flaw in the kit. You guys are reassuring me that the flaws, while glaring to some people, aren't necessarily deal-breakers to someone like me.thanks,
Sean H.
toadman1
Vendor
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,141 posts
Armorama: 950 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 03:19 AM UTC
toadman1
Vendor
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,141 posts
Armorama: 950 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 03:29 AM UTC
It also maybe a matter of turret type. In David Doyle's M24 Walkaround, there a photo on pg 44 that appears to support the Bronco kit. However, one of the M24's that I photographed for my M24 photo detail CD has a different arrangement for the turret ventilator with it lacking the splash guard. I'll post a photo later on today.
Again, it would be nice to see the original poster's pictures to see what he is really talking about.
Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
Again, it would be nice to see the original poster's pictures to see what he is really talking about.
Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
afv_rob
Joined: October 09, 2005
KitMaker: 2,556 posts
Armorama: 2,199 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 03:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Personally I can see differences in detail betwen the two turret pictures shown by the original poster so I'd not be surprised if this element, the turret, was changed during the production run of the tank.
Well the other images I've just googled seem to suggest Bronco made an error.
As I said previously I couldn't give a damn about this kit. I do however care about Bronco modern releases, so i hope these won't have accuracy issues. The whole 'it looks like a Chaffee' thing seems a bit silly as well, surely the Italeri kit looks like a Chaffee? In my opinion, if this was a vehicle I wished to model, this apparent error would be an issue for me. The incorrect details on the bottom of the hull, well I could probably live with those!
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
Armorama: 3,947 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 04:49 AM UTC
Here are pics of an M24 where the weld line is not forward of the ventilator
http://www.modellismopiu.net/m+gallerie/main.php?g2_itemId=611477
http://www.modellismopiu.net/m+gallerie/main.php?g2_itemId=25577
I don't see the Bronco mistake when compared to these 2 samples. The bend is clearly a welded joint for two separate roof plates.
http://www.modellismopiu.net/m+gallerie/main.php?g2_itemId=611477
http://www.modellismopiu.net/m+gallerie/main.php?g2_itemId=25577
I don't see the Bronco mistake when compared to these 2 samples. The bend is clearly a welded joint for two separate roof plates.
didiumus
Joined: March 18, 2003
KitMaker: 564 posts
Armorama: 312 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 04:54 AM UTC
Chris Nails it! Abraham had photos of one tank. Beware the one tank in a museum...
Happy Holidays everyone!
Scott Gentry
Happy Holidays everyone!
Scott Gentry
afv_rob
Joined: October 09, 2005
KitMaker: 2,556 posts
Armorama: 2,199 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 05:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Here are pics of an M24 where the weld line is not forward of the ventilator
http://www.modellismopiu.net/m+gallerie/main.php?g2_itemId=611477
http://www.modellismopiu.net/m+gallerie/main.php?g2_itemId=25577
I don't see the Bronco mistake when compared to these 2 samples. The bend is clearly a welded joint for two separate roof plates.
I stand corrected. As I said, this is a subject I have zero interest in and know zero about, my concerns where more that if theres problems on this, there could be problems on their modern kits i.e Buffalo, which I am interested in.
staff_Jim
Publisher
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,571 posts
Armorama: 6,599 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 06:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The bend is clearly a welded joint for two separate roof plates.
Roy,
I don't know how tanks are fabricated so this is more a question than a challenge, but how do you know those two sections are welded together, versus bent or formed that way? I would assume by the period they were making Chaffees that not everything was created using flat steel.
Thanks,
Jim
ninjrk
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 07:07 AM UTC
To be fair, whatever the motivation of the original poster it would be nice if there was time to fix it. It's no more work to manufacture an accurate kit than an innaccurate one and if they could fix it so no major work was needed, all the better. Tamiya's Panther G was plenty nice and looked like a Panther but I was certainly happy when Dragon did their Smart kit nonetheless!
Matt
Matt
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2011 - 07:07 AM UTC
To my eye, I can see a weld bead on photo 776, but I don't see one on the other example. To me it illustrates two ways of achieving the same result in production. I can't see the original photos (red X syndrome) but if all this is about the presence or not of a weld ebad, I can deal with it easily enough. If the bend/weld line is incorrectly located on the turret, then that's a somewhat more difficult issue to fix. Not impossible. but much more difficult.
Can someone repost the original three images in something other than "red X" format, please?
Paul
Can someone repost the original three images in something other than "red X" format, please?
Paul
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