Couple of notes for you tread.

In the game story, I know yours is stated as different, most major cities got nuked for either thier military significance or their large population. Several countries of central america and Mexico invaded the southern USA...oh, and Cuba got involved too. There was a BMP-2 in the resource books that had been comandered by the TX Nat Guard and run around. Also, there are 2 govt's in the USA...Milgov and Civgov...guess who is who? Not all regualr military units left inthe USA answer to the military etc.

also, there are supposed to only be two operational submarines left inthe world, the Chorpus Christi (Los Angeles Class) and a russian typhoon boomer. It was a in a three mod set of adventures.

Generally the world is pretty disorganized and messed up. In the games we generally played, cities were the largest form of govt we really ran across. Anything bigger was a shambles, although the game does acknowledge countries as still recognixable and so on.

No, I am not trying to be a party pooper, really, but just wanted to give you the low-down on the general story, you know, to help...

Well the freedom fighters of old Florida do what they can do to linkup with any of the friendlies and fight off the bad guys coming in from Cuba.

Sorry, forgot to add troop placement comments:

So far as I know, the southern border is once again restored...cubans back in cuba and all. I know there are still soviets in British Columbian and Washington state, and marauders pretty much run alberta and saskatchewan, as well as parts of Montana and N. Dakota...but who can tell, it is much like it is now! "hey bob, those locals, marauders, or the canadian army?" " Who can tell the difference?" :-)

I also know several US units pretty much destroyed eachother, especially out east. I think a NY division was wiped out figthing a NJ division, which was also wiped out. Something like that.

Well, I hope this adds info, not stops the creative flow...

Howdy animal!

MANY, MANY Thx sir! That's exactly the type of info I was looking for. :-)

Got to get to work, will chat with you later.

Tread. (whatever this guy is for).

YOU GUYS !! CONFUSE THE HELL oUT OF ME. !!!!

"The game" are we talking about Twilight 2000. Dont do it. oh well we all have our vises.
the model T2K, GTO thing has really taken OFF. I thought that was the idea, (MODELLING) not some game. I'll go back to my DARK , DREERY corner now.

I believe Tread's Wanting to do A T2K CONVOY using the Battlewagons As Escort Trucks Like they Did in 'nam..........

This works for me. One gun truck per 10-20 trucks. Depends on what they are carrying.

Howdy all,

Just got in. About to go out with the family to celebrate my Birthday, but stopped a moment to read the thread.
I gotta tell you. You guys amaze me. I really enjoy the passion you show for things! Pro or Con, I'll argue with neither, true passion for anything is always good in my book!
Anyway, my intent is/was, to indeed do as matt said. Build a storyline that creates a viable mental thread based upon the potential 'future' , using our own history as the textbook.
I felt that requesting 'animal's' experienced input regarding supply convoy security would be an invaluable resource that I honestly felt lucky to be able to plumb. To my advantage, our good member 'animal' has chosen to share his knowledge with not only me, but all of you who read his posts on the intricacies of what used to be his 'life'..........I for one am grateful for his decision to share what must be for him, bittersweet memories. Thx animal!

To Jacques input on the Twilight 2000 game storyline. Many thx Jacques for your helping to keep me up to speed! It helps alot, and simultaneously poses more questions.....
I can only assume for the moment (and this supports Rotor's posed point on the game vs. modeling debate) that we are not following some obsolete RPG game scenario to the letter, and instead, only using it as a baseline of sorts.....correct?
This would have to be the case in my mind, since some of the 'technicalities' of the storyline are more supportive of a board game, instead of a modeling endeavor. So, I can only assume that we have some artistic 'license'......nez pas'?


Tread.

TREAD

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU>>>>>>>HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU>>>> OLD FART

Hey TREAD I found your LOCOmotive for your armoured train. It fits the German rail stuff perfectly.

OH and another thing. I speek only from guess work mind you NOT. LOL
I've done (4) cross country convoys in excess of 300 miles each and (1) in excess of 950.
When we did convoys , there were three elements. CO and convoys ldr @ the front. como at the front, como at the ass. ALL FUEL TANKER were in the 2nd element in DAS MIDDLE, which also was the Maintenance element. We had a M936 in the front element w/ a contact truck, and an M984 at the rear w/ a contact truck. All convoys went without a hitch.
The Fuel in DAS MIDDLE was for this reason. Need fuel at DAS FRONT : Tanker moves FWD. NEED Fuel @ DAS REAR : Tanker slows and pulls off for vehicle to move up. AFTER REFUEL DAS TANKER rejoins DAS CONVOY in DER originol position.
Taking into consideration your idea of being attacked and whipping out the middle and all following vehicles: I bid you this point.: If the fuel is in DAS MIDDLE you will have to destroy all vehicles at DAS REAR or ALL VEHICLES at DAS front before you reach MINE TANKER GET IT. UNLESS of course you have UFO hovercraft and you leapfrog straight to DAS MIDDLE. OH and another little tidbit none of the convoys were less than 200 vehicles total. There MY half a fenning

Howdy Rotor,

I used to know a guy many, many moons ago who oft times during normal conversation with him, his response's would now and again become........'sharper' edged than they needed to be. He generally didn't mean to be so 'hard', but sometimes it just came out that way. He was a close friend, and a good man. We had an agreement he and I, that when he started to 'sway' in that conversational direction I would simply say to him "Jimbo, your slip showing". And he would silently get the point and know that our friendship was still intact and healthy.
Something that was important to both of us.

First off, my apologies for not knowing that you had convoy experience too. I probably should have been able to put two and two together after you shared a little of your experience with me about the HEMTT's...my bad! I'll know better next time. Promise.
And you know what, next time is right now!

Your explanation of the convoy arrangement you participated in was very helpful. Not quite sure I got all the lingo, but I think I can extrapolate. I can only assume your multiple convoy duties were performed during peacetime so I would like to know if there is a different deployment of vehicles depending upon the 'threat' level. Your description makes sense as to easy access to the tanker trucks in regards to the convoys needs. That adds up and seems logical.
I was just trying to ascertain if the same arrangement might be employed during wartime.

Now, as to your hypothetical use of alien spacecraft to attack the middle of the convoy to get at the tankers......
I'm going to play a little friendly 'devil's advocate' for a spell and apply a little Sun Tzu if it's alright?
If I was waiting alongside a road to ambush a passing convoy of trucks, and wanted to inflict as much damage as I could, just one of the methods I might employ would be to stay hidden and wait until the middle of the convoy (which is where the tankers are positioned) comes passing by and then hit the highly volatile tanker trucks with a heavy barrage of rockets or RPG's. I wouldn't have to strike all of the tanker trucks, probably only two or three to create an immediate roadblock and a situation of bedlam. At that point, especially with so many vehicles both behind, and in front of, the tanker element. I would have already positioned the main assault force further forward and down range of the diversionary tanker attack and wait until the word got back to the front elements who would send at least some of their 'protection' to assist the established threat at the tanker element to their rear. The rear element at this juncture could/would also respond to the threat at the middle. I would have very little concern for the rear element because it's only options would be to respond or not to respond. Either way, they're not going anywhere until the engagement is over.
Meanwhile my main force would attack the now weakened front element and proceed to 're-requisition' as much as I could get away with. Having done this, I would then withdraw my diversionary force fighting a retreating action with a second emplaced force covering my retreat in case of pursuit by the convoy defenses.
I'm probably dead wrong about this, and it wouldn't work at all.
Maybe 'animal' can poke some holes in my scenario we can all peek through. #:-)

Regards,

Tread.

two quick points.

1. convoy ambushes in Vietnam...AFAIK, based on limited research, most (if not all ) attack on the convoys on HWY 19 were from light infantry with mortars, RPG's, and maybe HMG's. They also used command detonated bombs, correct? Just to keep our convoy history correct...does this sound accurate to our "pro's in the know?"

2. Yes, I have been looking through the RPG rules, as they evolved through 2 rewrites, and all the modules I have. GIves a fairly interesting view on the world. I only put it in here to help give a fair idea as to what the authors fo said game were trying to set up...we can always change it to fit our needs.

Also, in Libya at least, it is said that the oilfields several hundered miles inland are now able to produce limited amounts of crude and crude diesel. They run tanker convoys to the coast for trade. SO the convoy idea is not a complete loss. Maybe fuel convoys running out of Texas/Oklahoma...Alaska? oh yeah, those pesky russkies have alaska tied up! heh heh!

Howdy Jacques,

Your points are good. The first point (I'm hoping maybe animal will rear his head here...hint, hint) is accurate. I'm just not completely sure how well coordinated the ambushes were. I'm just trying to 'think like my enemy' here and plan accordingly. Not only is it interesting, but it also will help me with my storyline.
Which brings me to your next point.
I agree, the origianl RPG game 'rules' are possibly a touchstone to use for our expanded scenario. And some of the established parameters in the T2K story are certainly arguable. For instance, the fact that there are only two operating submarines in the world?.......that seems a bit of a stretch. Do you realize how hard modern subs are to kill? Sorry, of course you do.
So, rather than get 'handcuffed' by any limiting parameters, I think that between the bunch of us history buffs/modeling dudes/sci-fi enthusiast's, we can choreograph a believable, and I'm certain, better storyline.
I would like some better input on worldwide allaince's. I think there was something mentioned about some Central/South American countries invading the US throught the Mexican border? I find that hard to imagine, but would like more information. I haven't seen the film in quite sometime, but didn't the Russian's invade through Mexico as well? I think the film took place in Montana or someplace like that.
Just so you know what I'm thinking. I've got this great looking Chinese submarine I'd like to employ within my storyline somwhere. Not sure where as yet, but I'm thinkin'! :-)
I also have plans for the Italeri 1/48th scale V-22 Osprey. Still thinkig there as well.
And if that's not enough, I'd love to do something with the RAIL idea.....just don't want to have to resort to selling a kidney on Ebay to pay for all the Dragon rail car models and such! #:-)

Tread.

TREAD:
Your comment about "My slip showing" Point taken. I do apologize and no harm intended your way. I will watch my snake tounge next time.Remember there is no Inflection with typed words, so the translation is sometimes lost.
Now you are correct in your assumption of peace time convoy operations, so I defer your Inquiry to Animal, or Gunnie. I think they would be more qualified to answer a "Combat Scenario". This I can say tho: Your strategy or plan of attack if you will.......is Exactly what I would do to ambush a convoy. ITS VERY AFFECTIVE and it really messes things up. WHICH is the whole point.
Now I relize we are comparing apples/oranges w/ this point so flow with me.
IRAQ 2003 527th Maint. Co. convoy that was hit. IE Jessica Lynch.. They were ambushed and overtaken.. Yes we have GREEN non-combat experiance troops involved, but there were other factors that caused the collapse and capture of that convoy and personel They were a smaller element, that were not hauling VOLATOL materials, but the scenatio of the convoys members and the attackers duties were still the same. The victors still got what they wanted, QUEEN of Battle is still Element of Surprise.
TREAD : I dont think your idea of CONVOY involvment, materials hauled,Overrun scenario, or convoy protection is at all out of place. Wheather this is a game or just modelling...........all these things are real, so the only determining factor is Military Doctrine, and Convoy members combat experiance. As to what you do in the model world is totally up to us as "Modelers License" with as much realism or fact as one wishes to interject. So Im with you on your whole EXPLORATION. Tod

Land mines and command detonated mines were a big favorite in Nam. I can not state how large a unit (enemy) was because we never saw very many of them. They had surprise, cover and concealment to their advantage. In the early years before we had the harden gun trucks the enemy was very bold and would hit a convoy in two or three places at one time. We could always count on one of the forward vehicles to be hit and it seems that there was always a couple of hits in the center of the convoy. Mortars were used a lot also. After we started to get the protection of the heavy gun trucks the attacks slacked off. in the area that I drove in, Saigon to Tay Ninh, (Long Binh. Ton Son Nute Cu Chi). The convoys up north along QL19 were massive. You could expect to get hit at least once on a round trip. Through the mountains there were a lot of places where they could attack from above the road way. They would have the advantage and could shoot down into the trucks. This made even the heaviest of armed trucks a target. Speed and good communications along with good air support was the key to a sucessful run. The key is not to get stopped and bottled up. I know of many of drivers that even after thier trucks were hit and some were burning they woud try to drive them off the side of the road to allow the others to get by.Our rule was if you got hit and you were able to move out of the way you did and one of the security trucks would come in to get you out. Remember the rule was to deliver your goods and get of the kill zone as quickly as you could. But the Gun Trucks would frush into the kill zone as soon as they could and stay there to engage the enemy and neutralize them.

Tread,

How about a Rail Transfer Facility? Where they transfer the Stuff from Rail cars to the Trucks?????

Update:

The Scammel tracks From AA ahve arrived. I'm gonna be bending for a month!!!! It's quite the litte PE Kit!!!! 2 Sheets of PE a piece of Chain and Instructions...........