ok, bench cleared, time to start on this beast (for the "Panzers Return" campaign). Put this in "constructive feedback" as I think now is theim to start getting tips, comments and critique to improve my building/painting...

Not sure yet

1) if it will be an E or an F (kit contains the long barrel for the F but markings only for an E)
2) what work on the interior I will do - maybe a little at the back of the hatch (couple of machine guns(?) latched to the rear perhaps)
3) what damage I will do - tempted to take off half one fender
4) just what stowage will be on it (photo shows what I have so far)

Rob W;

Hi!

I have this beast in a shoe-box almost 95% done and nearing paint... NO, not a shelf-Q owing to some big issues, just that I wandered into some other immediate compulsions and it got laid aside for awhile... Actually seeing you and maybe some others bringing this one up may goose me enough to finish sooner!

OK - I'll start with I ain't no StuG expert! I have looked at many pics to sort of frame-up some visible details and possible add-ons - ID some visible stuff that I could easily change or improve. My sources include many Concord Military volumes with StuG pics, several works dealing with Pz III and StuG and variants, and, most rewarding, Gary Edmundson's "Modelling the S...G... III" Osprey Modelling #22. VERY nice detailed builds of a B and an F short-gun... LOT's of stuff for an earlier StuG build, here!

I think the CH E is a pretty nice kit - although not as detailed or as crisp in all particulars as later DML StuG kits (SmartKits and the like). This one is one of those CH orange re-box kits of an older DML 9000 series kit with added MagicTracks. It goes together well and seems to offer a solid basis for whatever enhancement you want. NO detail inside, so be aware with those hatches!

The things I thought most worth "improving": I detailed the road-wheels - the kit wheels are the older DML type without those pegs/brace-tubes and I added some - probably most visible when looking at the spare wheels... I also detailed the outer wheel-face to show the welded form of the rim with its intermittent welds (easier to do than you think - take tiny segments of thinly-stretched sprue and weld them into that groove around the rim and texture a little with your knife-tip) - each outer wheel gets 6 - evenly-spaced around the rim. (OR... you could insert a new road-wheel set from a donor StuG or Pz III modern kit... IF you want to go that route )

I detailed the idlers a bit - they are slightly thick and clunky-looking in various places, and thinning the spokes gets them closer to the real thing (and to more-recent idlers...).

I also detailed my sprockets a little... wanted one to be a field-repaired item so welded on a patch-plate.

The hull-sponsons get added - these want some weld-seams. Also add weld-seams elsewhere around major metal joins on the hull - front plates-to-hull-sides, etc.

The "classic" DML III tow-cable on the rear deck wants improvement - I replaced mine with some cord and made brackets from sheet-styrene bits to replace that molded item.

I drilled pin-holes into all the visible hinge-ends around the hull - specially on the rear deck.

The head-lamps need some detailing. Adding clasps onto the cover-plate and a retaining hook to secure that plate when down (open) helps!

Adding tool-clamps and a few other small detail bits on the fenders helps a lot.

Adding the rear brace pieces under the fenders is visible and helps.

"Wire" those tail-lamps!

Open up those exhaust-pipes.

Detail the shock absorbers a little - they are visible.

I detailed the gun mantle a bit - added the bolts and washers on the back-side, etc.

Don't forget the small keeper-chains on the tow-pins!

I went around the hull and added and detailed eclectically following things I saw in Gary's Osprey builds. Stuff I could do using sheet styrene and stretched sprue scratch work. I found his nicely-photo'd build to be very inspirational (and rather intimidating )

Hope this helps as a first starter to stoke your furnace a little! I'm sure that there are many many folks out there who can offer some additional and pointed guidance as you go. And some who will offer accuracy tips... Have fun and post some!

Cheers!

Bob

Now, like I suggested above... I think I'll go pull mine down for a gander!

thanks Bob . I have the Osprey book, yes looks very helpful, I also have a Waffen Arsenal book (in german but with good photos) and, of course, google.... looking forward to starting this over the weekend

Hi, Sounds like a Cool Project. Bob has provided you some Great Info and advice here. Will be following your build. Good Luck with it.

mil

Bob, do you have photos of what improvements you made to the wheels? The waffen-arsenal book doesn't really show that, either the weld or the pegs/brace tubes.

Thanks

Gary (BBD468) built one of those for my StuG Campaign and it turned out great!

I need to get me get one for a possible upcoming StuG PT II Campaign.

I'll be watching your build.



~ Jeff

Thanks Jeff, I have looked at Gary's build many times, and will during this project. For a stug ii campaign I will look at a g perhaps, love the armour possibilities

Ahhhh found a good photo and see what you mean, need one thin tube then, and the kit wheels have slight weld marks... can do them as my first improvement....

Rob W;

IF you have that Edmundson Osprey book... you can see these welds on his wheels super clearly in some of his book build-pics. Actually, they show up really nicely on the StuG build photo on that book's cover!

Use very skinny styrene rod or (as I do) stretched sprue ca 0.1 - 0.2 mm diam. Use very thin cement and dip the rod/sprue segments (ca 2-3 mm long) into the cement and lay them into the groove. Maybe dab a little more cement on to soften the surface. Use the tip of a sharp Xacto #11 or other pointed knife to texture the welds a little.

It sounds a little tedious, but you will only do the outside wheels (12 faces) and the spares. Note that the welds fit adjacent to those brace tubes (the smaller holes in the wheel face). It will go pretty fast.

There is another route to make some "welds" on those wheels. You can actually use that new pointed knife-tip to cut the groove DEEPER in the spaces between those brace-tubes (over the larger holes in the wheel-face). This will also achieve the look, albeit the "weld" will be the old, shallow groove and you'll have deeper groove-segments between, instead of some clear relief of the weld-bead. It does look OK! Either route is better than the original wheels without any sort of weld detail at all.

PS: If I recollect right, the nice build Gary E did in that Osprey book "borrowed" road-wheels from a Tamiya kit, as the Dragon kit wheels did not have those welds, while the Tamiya items did. Elsewhere in that Osprey book, other builds are noted where the Dragon and even Tamiya wheels were replaced with some Gunze-Sangyo items - which did have the welds. The modern Dragon Pz / StuG III wheels do sport the welds.

I don't recall whether those brace-tubes were drilled in the E kit-wheels - but they should be if not already done. I think I used a very small drill - maybe a size 80. I think, in retrospect, that I made those holes a bit large

Cheers!

Bob

Thanks bob, rechecked the osprey book, now I know what I am looking for I can see it... the dragon wheels have both the small and large holes but no tubes, will get some plastic tube of the right diam. Have 12 main wheels and then perhaps 5-6 spares depending on how I do the final load....

Will start on the welds today then try my lhs next week for the tube

Rob W;

Adding the six little tubes to each roadie will up the work by quite a bit - but it will look GOOD! I tried it

This calls more and more for a cheat! All up, IF you want really honest-looking III wheels... grab any modern III SmartKit (whatever is cheapest) and use the lot of roadies and sprockets and idlers! It's the most time-efficient route. Only stubborn old cheap-skates like myself want to really hang in and do all the refurbs on the old kit wheels! (Oh, and those looking for stuff to do!)

Actually, IF you happen to have the Dragon Pz. III E SmartKit ("France 1940), this kit comes with a complete set of correct roadies as spares from its StuG III G sprues! (You get two whole sets of nice roadies in the E kit - one set is the narrower correct set for the narrow tracks provided in that kit, the other - the spare set - is the standard later wider-track set used on StuGs and all post-E III tanks. You do NOT get extra idlers or extra updated sprockets.) These modern road-wheel sets come with the correct "Continental" logo.

Of course, a certain satisfaction comes from fixing up those old wheels... IF you want to add those tubes, use something pretty thin - ca 0.3 - 0.4 mm diameter rod. Measure a length to fit loosely between the wheels and once you have that length, cut a bunch. I would suggest that you cement these little posts onto the inside surface of the hull-side wheel, and then assemble the wheels. IF you cut the posts a little short, they will not hamper assembly. The free end will still be hidden inside/behind the outer wheel so will not be visible.

I elected to do these posts only on my hull-top spares - it was some effort to actually get all 6 to stand straight up-right (and when seen from the side, a crooked post will really be visible, alas! ).

March on, Sir!

Bob

Bob, I am cheap so will buy some length of tube. Don't mind taking t slow to get the right result...

ok, started with the welding. 6/wheel, 12 fitted wheels plus 5 spares. so far I have 2. Using .5mm rod, melted in liquid poly then scored to look like weld. these are spare wheels (though I would start there) and they arent too bad - might consider slightly thinner rod perhaps

Rob W.;

Looks like you are off to a good start! A little practice and you'll have "pro-weld wheels"!

Still, you DO want to go much thinner than 0.5mm!

"Use very skinny styrene rod or (as I do) stretched sprue ca 0.1 - 0.2 mm diam. ...."

It will look GOOD when you get it all done up.

Bob

cut down to .25mm, looks better - thinking much less and you wont be able to see it... will put some pics up later so you can see

visit to my LMS yielded some .2mm rod and some .2m tube (that is the dimension of the hole). should be good to at least add some detail.

qq then - for the welding on the side "boxes" is that done using the rod too - see a lot of people use green-stuff but think the rod would work just as well.....

I built the exact same kit for Jeff T`s stug campaign. It was a very good kit to detail. Nice stowage by the way, it will really improve the build.

Phil.

wow! I never though it include tank accessories.!

Rob W.;

Simple answer: YES. I use the THIN stretched sprue to create weld beads (seams) by dipping the sprue-length into thin cement and laying it into place for the seam, sometimes brushing additional cement on to further soften and set the sprue thread, and texture it a little with a knife-tip. Quick, easy, and generally if messed-up pretty easy to remove and redo.

Take a look at this Pz 1A I did a couple years back - first attempt with this sprue-for-welds. Note seams added around the hull under the turret.



PS: Those welds around the wheel-rims are pretty small and even subtle - the very thin rod or sprue will get the right dimension and you need to be pretty careful in painting to avoid filling and hiding these! But they ARE visible if the paint is thinly applied.

Cheers!

Bob

ha - those are all 3rd party I have collected in the last year..

nice work - the pack of .2mm dia will come in useful then... will carry on with the wheels I have not done with the new stuff then check and go back if the current batch look too "clunky". I have been dipping in liquid poly, does give a nice rough/welded texture so that part is fine....

oj - first off a *blush* i bought .20" (.5mm) which is the stuff I already had... have to revisit my LMS to see if they have .2mm rod (and all my attempts at stretching sprue have ended in disaster....)

ok, so today I finished the wheel welds. Dont think they look "too" out of scale... and tried the tubing. Its not perfect but, once the 2 halves of wheel are together I think it gives a good impression - at least it is something to work on for the remaining 16 wheels!!!!!

picture no. 3,is the box included tank accessories?

nope - picture 3 is after market resin accessories (and a metal bucket) - the boxes/tarps are from Value Gear, the oil and fuel drums are RB (I think)....

Talking about the scale I think you went little bit overboard with those wheels:





And changing E into F will require much more work than just changing the barrel.