DML M103A1 - disappointment
Fyn, Denmark
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 10:41 PM UTC
This is a very interesting thread. One thing I found to be quite funny is the fact that this add keeps coming up in this thread:
"Super Hot Kit" lol
I'm an OOB builder, but I take my hat off to Pawel and the other guys that take the big modelling companies to task, cut through their marketing BS, and show that they really haven't done their homework despite the advertising hype.
I feel that this can help OOB builders, in that the next model from "DML", "Tamiya", "Trumpeter", etc will hopefully be more accurate.
John
#384
Nevada, United States
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 1,426 posts
Armorama: 1,316 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 04:04 AM UTC
Any pics of the inside of the TC's hatch?
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: March 05, 2009
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 380 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 30, 2014 - 02:43 PM UTC
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 - 08:38 PM UTC
I've been focusing on the turret recently. I almost totally rebuilt the front of the turret, but I just decided to also redo the rear, as currently the turret roof at the rear is whopping 6mm too wide...
So it looks like in the end I will have almost completely scratchbuilt turret
As the commander's cupola is too small with much too small hatch, I plan to replace it with this one (after modifications to the MG mount) from Slingshot Models:
This is how my turret looks now:
Of course the gunner's hatch is missing, but I will add it later (in fact just a thin "simulated" hatch detail glued on top of the turret roof).
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
South Carolina, United States
Joined: May 07, 2010
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
Armorama: 2,158 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 - 01:57 AM UTC
Very nice work, Pawel!
You're making it clear that the DML kit CAN be forced into the shape of the actual M103, but not without some serious modeling.
Thanks, too, for all the time and effort you've put into setting the facts straight about the differences between what DML has put in their box and what the real M103 looks like. You and Rob have done us all a big favor by getting the "ground truth" out there.
Happy modeling!
Mike Roof
AMPS #1632
Chapter Contact
AMPS Central SC
Visit us at http://www.ampscentralsouthcarolina.org
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 - 09:04 AM UTC
Today RB Model received my technical drawings of a main gun barrel for M103A1. Hopefully we will see an accurate metal replacement soon. I also created this picture comparing the Dragon barrel with the correctly sized one:
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 - 01:13 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Today RB Model received my technical drawings of a main gun barrel for M103A1. Hopefully we will see an accurate metal replacement soon. I also created this picture comparing the Dragon barrel with the correctly sized one:
That would be nice. I'm building mine without all the extra effort but the shortened main gun really stands out and will be replaced. I am still surprised at how badly Dragon
half-a@%ed this kit. Badly enough compared to, say, the Commanders' M103 kit that I'll cheerfully buy their T29 over a potential Dragon one (the T29 is one I would obsess over to fix, I'd rather just get one that was done properly. . .).
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 - 05:59 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Badly enough compared to, say, the Commanders' M103 kit
Wrong comparison... Unfortunately Dragon designers seem to have copied the Commander's kit. It has most of the same inaccuracies as the Dragon one. It is hyped to be accurate, but it isn't. It's almost as bad as the Dragon kit...
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
United States
Joined: February 19, 2009
KitMaker: 1,139 posts
Armorama: 1,100 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 - 10:01 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Pawel. Glad to see that you pointed those inaccuracies. And to other who count rivets, well, dont buy the kit, what else can one say right ?
But.
Im soooooooo glad I no longer rivet count. Found out long ago that when I first started building, I wasnt counting rivets. I just wanted to build a model and enjoy. Than, I began to rivet count and that alone was taking the fun out it for me. I currently have the 103 and am excited to build. Had I been now what I was once before, your review would had stopped me from building and or just destroyed my anticipation. No. Not anymore.
Some count rivets, some dont. I prefer to enjoy the build and not worry about this or that.
I seen on another site someone was reviwing the kit and they had both the lower hulls dragon's M103 and M48 and they were both the same lenght, now how can that since the M103 has 7 road wheels
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 - 10:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I seen on another site someone was reviwing the kit and they had both the lower hulls dragon's M103 and M48 and they were both the same lenght, now how can that since the M103 has 7 road wheels
The kit parts are not the same length, as you can clearly see here:
http://vodnik.net/pages/M103A1/m103a1.htmHulls of real tanks were indeed almost the same length, as the place for the seventh wheel was created by moving the idler mounts forward, the sprockets rearward and reducing distances between the road wheels. The actual hull was only about one inch longer in M103.
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
#417
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Monday, April 21, 2014 - 02:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Im soooooooo glad I no longer rivet count. Found out long ago that when I first started building, I wasnt counting rivets. I just wanted to build a model and enjoy. Than, I began to rivet count and that alone was taking the fun out it for me.
Some count rivets, some dont. I prefer to enjoy the build and not worry about this or that.
Without openning up the can of worms again, some of us refer to do both. I like to rivet count _and_ make all the corrections needed to make a model as accurate as I want it to be.
It's never perfect and each of us can be happy stopping where we each want to stop on the road to perfection, knowing that actual perfection isn't possible. We all get different things out of this hobby and I would never presume to impose my love of detail and accuracy on anyone else, especially those who don't feel that way.
There is room for every flavour of modeller under the styrene tent.
Paul
Paul Roberts
Past Editor, Boresight
Armor Modeling and Preservation Society
United States
Joined: March 19, 2010
KitMaker: 22 posts
Armorama: 17 posts
Posted: Monday, April 21, 2014 - 04:24 AM UTC
Vodnik,
I want to say thank you for the excellent research you have done on the M103A1 and DML's model thereof. Combined with your progress on correcting the critical issues the kit suffers, your overall effort is helping many of us. Now the news of RB models receiving your data on the main gun makes me hopeful you will see us safely through this swamp.
Thanks again,
Mike Powell
Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Monday, April 21, 2014 - 05:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
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Badly enough compared to, say, the Commanders' M103 kit
Wrong comparison... Unfortunately Dragon designers seem to have copied the Commander's kit. It has most of the same inaccuracies as the Dragon one. It is hyped to be accurate, but it isn't. It's almost as bad as the Dragon kit...
A fair point and I've read of the innacuracies. I would rather buy a flawed kit from a small company with helpful owners who will use the monies to develop new kits of rare subjects than a large one that will probably use the funds to kit the elusive January 17th 1943 production Tiger I from the east side of the factory. . .
Texas, United States
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
Armorama: 667 posts
Posted: Monday, April 21, 2014 - 05:16 AM UTC
RB Model is new to me , but I have a couple barrels on the way to me as I type ( via Hobby Easy ) ... Makes me hopeful of good quality now that I see them referenced Here,
Cheers , -- awesome work Pawel
Keith
United States
Joined: March 07, 2014
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 01:52 PM UTC
Quoted Text
A fair point and I've read of the innacuracies. I would rather buy a flawed kit from a small company with helpful owners who will use the monies to develop new kits of rare subjects than a large one that will probably use the funds to kit the elusive January 17th 1943 production Tiger I from the east side of the factory. . .
Oh man. I've been waiting for that Tiger. Rumor has it that there was a slightly different weld pattern between the driver's plate and the hull top that completely changes the look of the tank.
Seriously though, I can only hope that some other company actually gets around to making an accurate M103.
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 02:57 AM UTC
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
Cadiz, Spain / España
Joined: June 18, 2003
KitMaker: 225 posts
Armorama: 206 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 04:15 AM UTC
Pawel,
Excellent shots of your progress. Not sure I'll go quite as far, but this certainly shows where I need to go with it - thanks!
Olaf
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 05:04 AM UTC
Oh, by the way: the RB Models gun barrel should be available in May
It was designed in such a way that it should fit the original (much too small) kit mantlet, but still the visible part of it will be fully accurate. So it can be used even for out of the box build. I wait for a sample barrel to decide what to do with the mantlet in my model. I think I will design it in 3D and order from Shapeways. The kit mantlet looks just ridiculous on my turret with its correct width front part.
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
Cadiz, Spain / España
Joined: June 18, 2003
KitMaker: 225 posts
Armorama: 206 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 05:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Oh, by the way: the RB Models gun barrel should be available in May It was designed in such a way that it should fit the original (much too small) kit mantlet, but still the visible part of it will be fully accurate. So it can be used even for out of the box build. I wait for a sample barrel to decide what to do with the mantlet in my model. I think I will design it in 3D and order from Shapeways. The kit mantlet looks just ridiculous on my turret with its correct width front part.
Good news on the barrel. If you do the mantlet in 3D, will it be available for others to order from Shapeways too?
Thanks!
Olaf
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 05:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Good news on the barrel. If you do the mantlet in 3D, will it be available for others to order from Shapeways too?
I'm not sure how to set it up to be orderable, but if I couldn't, I certainly can share the SLT file with you, so that you could order your own part
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
Cadiz, Spain / España
Joined: June 18, 2003
KitMaker: 225 posts
Armorama: 206 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 05:57 AM UTC
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Good news on the barrel. If you do the mantlet in 3D, will it be available for others to order from Shapeways too?
I'm not sure how to set it up to be orderable, but if I couldn't, I certainly can share the SLT file with you, so that you could order your own part
Excellent, thanks!
Olaf
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller
#384
Nevada, United States
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 1,426 posts
Armorama: 1,316 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 06:09 AM UTC
Man that looks great. I just built mine, couldn’t deal with dealing with all the inaccuracies. It just blows my mind about the turret, how the heck could they not know that it just doesn’t fit???
barkingdigger
Associate Editor#013
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 07:57 AM UTC
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Good news on the barrel. If you do the mantlet in 3D, will it be available for others to order from Shapeways too?
I'm not sure how to set it up to be orderable, but if I couldn't, I certainly can share the SLT file with you, so that you could order your own part
Setting it up for others to buy from Shapeways is easy! Once you are happy with the part, simply choose the default material, set a mark-up fee, and tick the "Display to the Public" and "Offer for Sale to Others" boxes! Then copy the link and post it here so folks can find it...
If you get stuck, drop me a line - I'm an old hand at Shapeways.
"Glue, or Glue Not - there is no Dry-Fit" - Yoda (original script from Return of the Jedi...)
Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 08:06 AM UTC
Damn, I hadn't realized what a piece of crap the turret truly was until seeing it side by side with your revamp. It's actually glaring enough to make me contemplate either holding off for a resin turret or just selling the damned thing on eBay.
God I hope they don't screw up the M6 as badly.. .
New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 08:19 AM UTC
Did dragon get anything right with this kit?
Modelling is not just a hobby, it's an addiction.
