Hosted by Darren Baker
DML M103A1 - disappointment
ninjrk
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 08:48 AM UTC
The roadwheels are ok.
HDSC2D
Joined: March 12, 2013
KitMaker: 170 posts
Armorama: 141 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 09:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The roadwheels are ok.
Even the wheels are bad! DML made them as two pieces supposedly to capture the undercut of the rim like AFV Club did with their M41 kit (not the ex-Skybow kit) or the Bronco late M24 kit. Also the the rim is almost flat like a dog bowl without the pronounced stamped half-circle.
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 - 02:11 AM UTC
Agrhhh... I just realized I will have to build the fenders from scratch. There is no way I can simply modify the kit parts to fit to the corrected hull. The mounting brackets are all in wrong places. Damn...
rfbaer
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,696 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 - 03:13 AM UTC
I think I changed my mind about buying one of these things....
there's just too much wrong with it to ignore.
I do have to say, Pawel, your modeling is fantastic, not to mention your perseverance in whipping this thing into something that bears more than a passing resemblance to the M103.
there's just too much wrong with it to ignore.
I do have to say, Pawel, your modeling is fantastic, not to mention your perseverance in whipping this thing into something that bears more than a passing resemblance to the M103.
ninjrk
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 - 03:41 AM UTC
Aaaaand with that last post I think i can officially say that this model is tied with the Tauro A7V as the mass produced armor kit with the least amount of accurate and usable parts. Good lord, when the turret can't even fully rotate you've truly screwed the pooch! I'm watching this impressive build thinking its beginning to cross the line to a full scratchbuild with donor parts from the kit.
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 - 05:10 AM UTC
[quote]Aaaaand with that last post I think i can officially say that this model is tied with the Tauro A7V as the mass produced armor kit with the least amount of accurate and usable parts. Good lord, when the turret can't even fully rotate you've truly screwed the pooch! I'm watching this impressive build thinking its beginning to cross the line to a full scratchbuild with donor parts from the kit. [/quot
Well, that settles it! When and if I finally break down to buy a 1/35 M103A1, it will most likely be the full resin COMMANDER MODELS/IRON SHIPWRIGHT full-resin kit, even if it DOES cost me two-and-a-half times as much!!!
Unless... DRAGON decides to get up off their asses and completely re-tool the thing, which is NOT likely- considering their past record in correcting any other US armor. They only correct their WWII German stuff...
Or, if some OTHER manufacturer like BRONCO or TRUMPETER/HOBBY BOSS, or MENG, or maybe even TAKOM decides to produce their own M103A1- But I don't think that's very likely, either!!!
On another note- How about an entirely newly-tooled M60 IN PLASTIC?
Well, that settles it! When and if I finally break down to buy a 1/35 M103A1, it will most likely be the full resin COMMANDER MODELS/IRON SHIPWRIGHT full-resin kit, even if it DOES cost me two-and-a-half times as much!!!
Unless... DRAGON decides to get up off their asses and completely re-tool the thing, which is NOT likely- considering their past record in correcting any other US armor. They only correct their WWII German stuff...
Or, if some OTHER manufacturer like BRONCO or TRUMPETER/HOBBY BOSS, or MENG, or maybe even TAKOM decides to produce their own M103A1- But I don't think that's very likely, either!!!
On another note- How about an entirely newly-tooled M60 IN PLASTIC?
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 - 05:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
When and if I finally break down to buy a 1/35 M103A1, it will most likely be the full resin COMMANDER MODELS/IRON SHIPWRIGHT full-resin kit
Don't do it. The Commander's kit is almost as bad as the DML one. Actually it looks like Dragon designers copied the Commander's kit, unfortunately with all of its errors, then they added some of their own...
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 - 05:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
When and if I finally break down to buy a 1/35 M103A1, it will most likely be the full resin COMMANDER MODELS/IRON SHIPWRIGHT full-resin kit
Don't do it. The Commander's kit is almost as bad as the DML one. Actually it looks like Dragon designers copied the Commander's kit, unfortunately with all of its errors, then they added some of their own...
THANKS FOR THE HEADS-UP!!!
I'll save my money for a more worthwhile project! 
Mini_Bolo
Joined: March 07, 2014
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 - 11:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Did dragon get anything right with this kit?
Well, they managed to make it out of styrene instead of jell-o...
1.90E_31
Joined: December 24, 2004
KitMaker: 252 posts
Armorama: 154 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 - 01:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Don't do it. The Commander's kit is almost as bad as the DML one. Actually it looks like Dragon designers copied the Commander's kit, unfortunately with all of its errors, then they added some of their own...
I will confirm Pawel's assessment of our kit. It looks like the set of plans used in 1998 or so were bad, since the pattern we created matches those plans. Dragon does have one of our kits, and we do include the plans used for our pattern in the kit. I do not know who's plans these were, or which set of plans were used, but neither kit does NOT match Hunnicutt.
Jon
kris1983
Joined: May 04, 2014
KitMaker: 12 posts
Armorama: 12 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 02:23 AM UTC
Hello guys! I agree to you - this is the worst kit I have ever had for such sum of money. But I have one question - are you sure RB Models is going to make M-103 gun barrel and it will be more accurate (the correct lenght at least)? What is the source of this information? I wish to buy this barrel.
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 02:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What is the source of this information? I wish to buy this barrel.
I am the source and I provided the RB with the information required to make the barrel accurate.
Mini_Bolo
Joined: March 07, 2014
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 06:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Don't do it. The Commander's kit is almost as bad as the DML one. Actually it looks like Dragon designers copied the Commander's kit, unfortunately with all of its errors, then they added some of their own...
I will confirm Pawel's assessment of our kit. It looks like the set of plans used in 1998 or so were bad, since the pattern we created matches those plans. Dragon does have one of our kits, and we do include the plans used for our pattern in the kit. I do not know who's plans these were, or which set of plans were used, but neither kit does NOT match Hunnicutt.
Jon
Have you thought about making a new M103 kit with Hunnicutt's plans?
kris1983
Joined: May 04, 2014
KitMaker: 12 posts
Armorama: 12 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 06:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextWhat is the source of this information? I wish to buy this barrel.
I am the source and I provided the RB with the information required to make the barrel accurate.
Thank you for the answer, didn't find any mentions about M-103 on their site. Maybe somebody know about another planned conversion kits for dragon M-103 in order to make it more accurate?
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 06:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Maybe somebody know about another planned conversion kits for dragon M-103 in order to make it more accurate?
Like new hull, fenders, wheels, turret, mantlet, gun, commander's cupola and a few other details? Yeah... well... I don't think so...
ninjrk
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 07:31 AM UTC
I dunno, I suppose I could see a market for an accurized turret that fits on the existing hull, especially if it comes with a good aftermarket barrel.
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 07:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I dunno, I suppose I could see a market for an accurized turret that fits on the existing hull, especially if it comes with a good aftermarket barrel.
An accurate turret would not fit the existing kit hull, because the engine deck is a couple of millimeters too tall... So to fit the kit hull you would have to compromise the accuracy of the turret. And it simply doesn't make sense in my opinion, as the hull is badly inaccurate too.
IrishGreek
Joined: October 17, 2010
KitMaker: 627 posts
Armorama: 571 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 03:49 PM UTC
I get more depressed every time I look at this thread. I sooooo wanted a nice M103... 
Pawel, wonderful work you did though.
Pawel, wonderful work you did though.
1.90E_31
Joined: December 24, 2004
KitMaker: 252 posts
Armorama: 154 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 11:02 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Have you thought about making a new M103 kit with Hunnicutt's plans?
I've talked with Ted about this, and the decision is no. With this kit out there, all of the potential sales of a resin kit are out of the question, since the modelers will buy the less expensive kit. As Pawel mentions about, a "correction" kit would entail replacing just about everything, so that's out of the question too. We'll just move on to the next kit...
Jon
ninjrk
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2014 - 01:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Have you thought about making a new M103 kit with Hunnicutt's plans?
I've talked with Ted about this, and the decision is no. With this kit out there, all of the potential sales of a resin kit are out of the question, since the modelers will buy the less expensive kit. As Pawel mentions about, a "correction" kit would entail replacing just about everything, so that's out of the question too. We'll just move on to the next kit...
Jon
First, yeah, screw the M103 I WANT THAT T29!!
That said, this is exactly the reason why I can't join the "just be happy we have a flawed kit" group that pops up on the various internet boards. It's one thing if someone messes up a Panther; you know there will be another. But for the M103 or something similarly rare (T28. . .) once it comes out in plastic there will almost never be another one released in either resin or plastic. So, we get the crappy dragon M103 and that's it. Bummer.
SdAufKla
Joined: May 07, 2010
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
Armorama: 2,158 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2014 - 01:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
...
That said, this is exactly the reason why I can't join the "just be happy we have a flawed kit" group that pops up on the various internet boards. It's one thing if someone messes up a Panther; you know there will be another. But for the M103 or something similarly rare (T28. . .) once it comes out in plastic there will almost never be another one released in either resin or plastic. So, we get the crappy dragon M103 and that's it. Bummer.
Gotta agree with this. And there are plenty of examples of this phenomenon - the bad kit of the unusual subject that hangs around for decades and decades usually never to be replaced.
Belt_Fed
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2014 - 01:54 AM UTC
[/quote]
First, yeah, screw the M103 I WANT THAT T29!!
That said, this is exactly the reason why I can't join the "just be happy we have a flawed kit" group that pops up on the various internet boards. It's one thing if someone messes up a Panther; you know there will be another. But for the M103 or something similarly rare (T28. . .) once it comes out in plastic there will almost never be another one released in either resin or plastic. So, we get the crappy dragon M103 and that's it. Bummer.[/quote]
This is most likely why Dragon did not put too much effort into this kit. Since it will be the only game in town, it will sell because it's the modelers only option.
First, yeah, screw the M103 I WANT THAT T29!!
That said, this is exactly the reason why I can't join the "just be happy we have a flawed kit" group that pops up on the various internet boards. It's one thing if someone messes up a Panther; you know there will be another. But for the M103 or something similarly rare (T28. . .) once it comes out in plastic there will almost never be another one released in either resin or plastic. So, we get the crappy dragon M103 and that's it. Bummer.[/quote]
This is most likely why Dragon did not put too much effort into this kit. Since it will be the only game in town, it will sell because it's the modelers only option.
WARCLOUD
Joined: March 31, 2012
KitMaker: 280 posts
Armorama: 274 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2014 - 02:29 AM UTC
Oh my oh MY....how many armor/vehicle kits on the market today could we apply all these sorts of accuracy and dimensional problems to? I'm afraid, a whole lot of them. Dragon isn't the only sinner in this little corner of Hell.
That said, i feel your pain gents.
The unfortunate reality of Dragon Models is...they're Chinese. The Chinese manufacturing sector, the biggest on earth and biggest ever in recorded history, is a heartless soulless monster dedicated to mass production and global sales. Period. Quality never comes into the discussion.
I actually like most Dragon kits, but I'm a WW2 guy and a detail freak who usually throws upgrades and detail kits worth three times the kit price on the build. The mistakes and screaming inaccuracies I find even in the best-selling WW2 German armor and the popular US halftracks is disappointing, and on occasion not even correctable. I suspect that Dragon never actually sits anyone down to actually ASSEMBLE any of their production kits before they ship. why do I think this? They create the master model in 3D as a virtual model and the entire production process very likely NEVER involves much human contact..and the extreme pressure to cut corners and get to market has convinced the Chinese that well, doing that test assemble really isn't necessary is it? Is that the case? Well, I've got Dragon kits where things don't go inside where they should, don't fit, are the wrong size, etc. Seems like a simple test build at the end of the production line would have pointed such issues out, yes?
Well no...one would like to think that Dragon's big offices in China and Hong Kong are inhabited by dedicated armor model freaks bent on the highest quality and most deadly accurate miniatures to please the most anal rivet counter..but please, my kidneys hurt when I laugh that long. Not even in the conversation. Model it, prototype it, layout the molds, run it, box it, get it to market. Sell Sell Sell.
That said, i feel your pain gents.
The unfortunate reality of Dragon Models is...they're Chinese. The Chinese manufacturing sector, the biggest on earth and biggest ever in recorded history, is a heartless soulless monster dedicated to mass production and global sales. Period. Quality never comes into the discussion.
I actually like most Dragon kits, but I'm a WW2 guy and a detail freak who usually throws upgrades and detail kits worth three times the kit price on the build. The mistakes and screaming inaccuracies I find even in the best-selling WW2 German armor and the popular US halftracks is disappointing, and on occasion not even correctable. I suspect that Dragon never actually sits anyone down to actually ASSEMBLE any of their production kits before they ship. why do I think this? They create the master model in 3D as a virtual model and the entire production process very likely NEVER involves much human contact..and the extreme pressure to cut corners and get to market has convinced the Chinese that well, doing that test assemble really isn't necessary is it? Is that the case? Well, I've got Dragon kits where things don't go inside where they should, don't fit, are the wrong size, etc. Seems like a simple test build at the end of the production line would have pointed such issues out, yes?
Well no...one would like to think that Dragon's big offices in China and Hong Kong are inhabited by dedicated armor model freaks bent on the highest quality and most deadly accurate miniatures to please the most anal rivet counter..but please, my kidneys hurt when I laugh that long. Not even in the conversation. Model it, prototype it, layout the molds, run it, box it, get it to market. Sell Sell Sell.
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2014 - 05:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The Chinese manufacturing sector, the biggest on earth and biggest ever in recorded history, is a heartless soulless monster dedicated to mass production and global sales. Period. Quality never comes into the discussion.
Isn't Meng Chinese? Or are those unfamiliar characters in my emails due to my ever declining eyesight?
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2014 - 05:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Isn't Meng Chinese?
Of course it is. Just like Bronco, Riich or Takom...
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.