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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
Hard criticism on Trumpeter´s model kits
hugohuertas
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
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Posted: Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 02:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Kurt

If you can sell 5000 Mk.A kits and 2500 Mk.B kits manufacturing them separately for a total of 7500 units, why in the heck would you say you would ONLY sell 5500 units of a combined "two-in one kit". Why not 7500 of the combined kit? Shouldn't there be just as many people wanting a copy of both Marks?

And I can certainly manufacture 7500 of one kit cheaper per unit than I can make 5000 and 2500 of two different kits!



I feel that you are missing view of the entire chain from producing, packaging, marketing, selling procedures and hidden costs.
Seems like some mixing ideas and facts there, or plainly ignoring that the kits we are talking about actually share a -wide- number of parts that are produced altogether, and boxed separately for each versión/box.
So your estimated producing costs remain the same, and you have to take in account only the uncommon parts production costs, and the boxing/packaging costs for each different model.
Go back to the point where you can offer different markings and/or specific parts in diferent boxes and still get the entire price of the kit for each one you sell. Why would you place all of them in one box? Why would you offer more for less, if you don't need it?
Basic capitalism there...
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Monday, June 16, 2014 - 04:09 AM UTC
I don't agree but I will simply choose to stop arguing!
Jacques
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Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
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Posted: Monday, June 16, 2014 - 12:38 PM UTC
Ok, I let the thread run a bit longer. You will notice that while everyone is relatively civil (thank you) it is pretty much "talked out".
KurtLaughlin
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Joined: January 18, 2003
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Posted: Monday, June 16, 2014 - 12:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't agree but I will simply choose to stop arguing!



Well, just consider that there's a reason that the companies don't bundle the kits, and it's not because they never thought of it before.

KL
BBD468
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Texas, United States
Joined: March 08, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 - 12:35 PM UTC
Who loves scale Modeling? This Guy------> (Me)

SDavies
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: January 09, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 - 08:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Who loves scale Modeling? This Guy------> (Me)




And me.

I love most modern Trumpter Kits. My only comment is that the prices are rising quickly.

Trumpeter 1/35 Russian T-80BVD MBT # 05581 on E-models for £54 withan MSRP of £59.99.

This is very expensive

Apart from that I really like them
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 - 10:56 PM UTC
[quote]
Quoted Text



I love most modern Trumpeter Kits. . . . . Apart from that I really like them



Could not disagree more! Have not checked out every Trump kit but the ones I have worked on are a mix of beautiful mold work and GROSSLY incorrect detail and construction errors.
hugohuertas
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
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Posted: Thursday, June 19, 2014 - 04:43 AM UTC
Maybe its just me, but this topic is seeming to go nowhere...

I feel that we begun to repeat ourselves and our personal points of view again and again -"I love Trumpeter recent kits" against "I don't love them at all due to the huge number of inaccuracies", and so on and so forth- , without adding anything new to the discussion, nor giving any useful input about a given kit.

Just my -last- .02
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Thursday, June 19, 2014 - 08:01 AM UTC
We can just stop talking about the subject if you want.

However it is my experience (not opinion but direct hands-on experience) that without a doubt, at least some of Trumpeter's kits deserve the heat they are receiving here.

Nothing is going to change that fact other than Trumpeter improving the quality of their kits. The new modelers who come to this site deserve to share in this information.

To my mind that is what this blog site is supposed to be all about. first hand, experience based information given not for the purpose of cutting into Trumpeter sales but information given so our fellow modelers can know ahead of time what they are getting into and make a value judgement based on weather they will think a particular kit is worth the time, effort and expense of taking it on!
rfbaer
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Joined: June 12, 2007
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Posted: Thursday, June 19, 2014 - 08:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Who loves scale Modeling? This Guy------> (Me)




And me!
And now, I think I'll go back and work on the Tamiya Merk1 I have on the bench..... that's got a Trump KV-1 in line after it.
hugohuertas
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
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Posted: Thursday, June 19, 2014 - 08:25 AM UTC
I agree about the accuracy issues of a number of Trumpeter's kits, but what's the point of keep repeatimg this instead of -for instance- pointing out those mistakes/errors or just opening a specific topic for the kit that someone believes is woth a critic?
I think that any of those options are actually useful for other modelers to get an idea about what they will find inside the box, but complaining in generic or abstract terms is almost useless...
As said before, Trumpeter has both hard bones and very nice kits, so it should be better to point out which are the ugly and which are the good ones, and why...
OK, these are really my last 2 cents
spoons
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: January 09, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, June 19, 2014 - 08:39 AM UTC
Time to lock thread ?
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Thursday, June 19, 2014 - 12:12 PM UTC
Just as an F.Y.I. - Earlier in this blog I did post a link to a MAZ-537 thread that among other things, covers quite a few of the short falls on the Trumpeter offering.

Also, if I look around I can find the even more recent build log published on Armorama that compares/critiques the Trumpeter LCM to the more correct Italeri model and post that as well.

Just saying . . .
bgcmd59
#353
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: October 20, 2013
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Posted: Thursday, June 19, 2014 - 02:47 PM UTC
I was at a Games Workshop Gamesday in Baltimore some years ago and saw two guys almost get into a fist fight when one said: "Oh yeah, well Darth Vadar could kick Spock's butt."
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Thursday, June 19, 2014 - 11:02 PM UTC
Well HE COULD! . . . Just kidding.

I'm done.
tanknick22
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Posted: Thursday, June 19, 2014 - 11:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Amen, Darren
Agree 110% with you


PS: Meng's T-90 is a great kit, firmly a step -or two- ahead Trumpeter's ones, but I hate their plastic, and I feel it a bit over engineered in some áreas. I'm not very convinced either by their movable suspension. But a solid kit, no doubts.



Zveda's T-90 is a nice kit too
Removed by original poster on 06/20/14 - 13:11:07 (GMT).
chumpo
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Posted: Friday, June 20, 2014 - 02:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

First off, you may not know me from Adam as I don't post regularly on any armor sites anymore. Yet, I have some experience many can't say they do.


Quoted Text

After a bit of research, here is the basic deal:

D-30 (early): Slotted baffle

D-30 (late): Slotted baffle with changed towing lug location

D-30A (or D-30M): New "double" baffle.

D-30J: Locally made Serbian D-30A.

Hope that helps clear it up a bit.



That is exactly what they thought.


Quoted Text

If the major armor model manufactures are not monitoring blogs like Armorama for trends and feedback information they are idiots! And if they are not you can bet their distributors are.



Well, then the companies and their distributors are idiots if this were true.
Trumpeter used to have one person who I was in contact with using an online
translator. It was difficult (to say the least). There are many forums so how are they to decide which to follow?

As for the original poster providing a list. I can tell you that the releases were coincidences as they only seem to reply to things like this:


One of several thousand photos and measurements taken by me over the years on trips of the subjects that interest me. Trumpeter responds to this, not lists.
I have friends at many museums and I've yet to be informed by any of them of aTrumpeter team visiting. This should help you in seeing that the designers may have never seen the subject and are definitely not experts. When photographs weren't clearly labeled, variants got mixed.

Anyway, I have seen many of the subjects whose photographs and measurements I have sent become kits. I can only wish that they look at the aircraft references I sent as well.

Regards,



So how many kits have they sent you to review and if there are any error do they correct them per your say so ?
chumpo
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Posted: Friday, June 20, 2014 - 02:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Time to lock thread ?


Let them vent that way somebody does not get the idea of blowing up trumpeter they will bleed of their anger during the posting .
Jacques
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Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
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Posted: Friday, June 20, 2014 - 09:37 AM UTC
I am keeping an eye on things. No one is overboard just yet. (And thanks for that all of you).

While I can attest to a certain AMOUNT of the vitriol people have in this thread, (I was disappointed in the few shortfalls of the BMP-1 kit of which you can read my review HERE ) I cannot say that Trumpeter is a waste of money in general.

I agree that the LCM-3 and the MAZ-537 are over simplified, the BTR-50 has nose angle issues in one version, and the T-62 has a few issues. I also know that those are older kits and the newer ones are getting better. There are still some stupid mistakes (or annoying marketing choices) like the track faces of the T-80 kits (The rest of the T-80 kits, besides the track faces, are fab-u-lous). But they are also coming out with some seriously GOOD kits, like the T-72B M1990.

What are you willing to accept? This is where extensive kit reviews show their value.
spoons
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 527 posts
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Posted: Friday, June 20, 2014 - 10:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Time to lock thread ?


Let them vent that way somebody does not get the idea of blowing up trumpeter they will bleed of their anger during the posting .


I don't have any aspirations to blow up model company's, maybe some of the importers but not the producers and I don't think trumpys doing too bad!
sharkmouth
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New York, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Monday, March 14, 2016 - 01:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So how many kits have they sent you to review and if there are any error do they correct them per your say so ?



Oh wow! Sorry for such a late response. Yes, they have sent me kits but not for review. I have no clue which kits they moved forward with other than they asking if anything else is available. Kits are sent as a thank you and some of the staff here who have met me have seen me bring kits before regular availability.

Do I come across errors on kits I sent in references? Yes, I do but by the time I see plastic, it is too late and I do not recall Trumpeter going back and correcting errors in recent years.

As for aircraft references, the R&D team seems to have been producing the product for Hobby Boss (another company owned by Wasan Plastics) and they never send me anything. Since I haven't really asked to review anything, I do not get review samples either.

My main interest is aircraft. I still get "armor" kits simply because I like wheeled vehicles or it is a subject I sent in references for so this is their 'thank you.'

Please note, it may be years before I respond. I did state I don't visit the armor boards often!

Regards,
 _GOTOTOP