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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
Hard criticism on Trumpeter´s model kits
PatriotaModels
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Bayern, Germany
Joined: October 25, 2011
KitMaker: 126 posts
Armorama: 116 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 08, 2014 - 09:54 PM UTC
Hello Trumpeter,

I decided to make it official and point on some facts about the way how accurate and how selective you are producing your model kits.

I can´t ignore anymore the fact that every model kit you are producing has a lot of shape issues or missing details, which have to be solved with additional expensive etched parts from China and Co.

Let´s take an example. Your late D-30 howitzer is a joke and a diret insult to every serious paying modeller. How can you dare to sell it as a "late" version when the muzzle brake stills the same. At your catalogue you have posted a picture for the "late" type #02329 (page 39), using Yugoslav military archives:


It shows an Yugoslav late D-30 howitzer during excercise in 1997.

here´s a picture from the Yugoslav army in 2002, using the same late D-30 howitzer:


here´s my D-30 howitzer, built from SKIF:


and this is your "late" D-30 howitzer



Probably you management can remember, some 4-5 years ago, I wrote to you an E-Mail with a complete list of Soviet / Russian Cold War era vehicles. All the tanks and vehicles you are producing and selling meanwhile are from the list I sent to you. Meanwhile I´m wondering why you still producing 2-3 different Iraqi T-62 tanks, a lot of T-64 tanks and so on. You have never thought about trying to make some serious stuff from the Yugoslav civil war in the 90´s, like the M-84 and M-84A tanks, Yugoslav M-80 and M-80A APC´s or OT M-60.

You never tried to solve the issues with your SA-6 KUB air defence system (chassis or the ridiculous rockets).

What about some different sets for Soviet/ Russian tankers during Cold War era or different sets of Yugoslav army forces in 1/35. But no, you still producing German-Nazi vehicles, airplanes and soldiers from WWII in this version, and that version, at any scale and so on. Who cares for WWII anymore?

If you want to be a serious company, with your meanwhile expensive retail prices, you should take more care for accuracy and about the stuff the people want to build.

Please do not forget, quality is important, not quantity !
ninjrk
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Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 08, 2014 - 11:19 PM UTC
I would suggest their Facebook page would actually be a better place if you want their intention. Also, while I wouldn't argue about that muzzle break (don't know enough) I rather think their KV's, T-64, T-90, and so have helped make them a serious company. While your suggestions would be great, you might note that Trumpeter pretty much owns the field for Cold War and modern Russian armor.
Old_Weble
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Germany
Joined: January 31, 2014
KitMaker: 3 posts
Armorama: 3 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 08, 2014 - 11:43 PM UTC
There is a simple solution for your problem with Trumpeter kits.

If you dont like them, dont buy them !!!

I made this decision a few years ago about Dragon.
Their kits are also full of mistakes !!!

You say that Trumpeter has releaesed all models on your list which you have send them a few years ago, which other manufacturer does this ?
NONE !!!!

So why do you complain about Trumpeter ?


I for myself like their kits and if i have to correct some things on a kit than i do this , thats what i call modelling.


Who cares for WWII anymore?

Me and about thousands of other modellers.

Thats just my opinion.

Have a nice day

Cheers


HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 01:35 AM UTC
These rants against manufacturers are really quite pointless and childish. Why can't people just be happy that there are a lot of new options to build.

A few points:

- If you don't like their products don't buy them.
- You are supposed to be a modeler, convert or correct the existing kits to what you want.
- I am glad you think you are the center of the modeling universe. I've got news for you though, you are not the only model buyer out there.
- Get over it and go build a model.
mwinters
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United States
Joined: August 16, 2012
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 6 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 02:08 AM UTC
I am very put off by Trumpeter kits, much like Mr. Kostic. It comes down to basic craftsmanship, even respect. Look at their USS Indianapolis. They seem to have lost interest somewhere near the stern and just quit working on it.
As they come up with each and every new kit, I cringe. (Can't wait for CV-6). Can't someone who cares about the subject take charge of designing the kit? Maybe not.
And before you Trumpeter-lovers weigh in -- you're right, just don't buy them. I don't.
MW
hugohuertas
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 03:30 AM UTC
Strange topic, I believe
I also see a number of accuracy issues in some Trumpeter kits, but most of them are hardly unfixable if you really feel in the need of doing so, and with medium level modelling skills. Isn't that what this hobby is about? Or are you looking for shake-and-bake kits? I can list for you no less than a hundred of recent kits -from almost every manufacturer- that are either a PITA to build, or have shocking accuracy mistakes. So what?

I find it unbelievable that anyone blame Trumpeter for their offering "limitations". They became with no doubt one of the most full-pace releasing companies, and they were smart enough to fulfill a niche of soviet/russian stuff other manufacturers are still starting their attempts to.

We are lucky that we live in the era of greatest offerings for modern stuff modelers, and Trumpeter was/is one of the main responsibles and actors for this reality.
Otherwise, we might still be waiting for the next Dragon Tiger I as seen on July 4th 1944 at 5:15PM near Stanislav in Hungary, or next Tamiya's simplified kit sold at Century 21 prices...

It is also hard to understand the relation between that complaint with the later about Trumpeter having release all the models in the list you sent them. What's your point there???? You claim and cry for yugoslav stuff, so what? Do you actually believe that you are the owner of the truth about what modern modelers expect?
I find your complaints contradictory and -no offense- childish.

Talking about quality, if you still think that their T-72 or T-90's are crap, well, wait until you find something better in plastic (Meng's T-90 is a great kit and more accurate than Trump one, but also has its own flaws as any kit in the market)
Did you see their MSTA-S? Their BTR series, or their KV ones? If you feel those are bad kits, I have nothing else to say. And those are only a fistful of examples.

As everyobody said before, once again: don't like'em? Just don't buy'em...
You may not believe it, but there are hundreds of modelers out there waiting anxious for the next Trumpeter release...
pdelsoglio
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Mendoza, Argentina
Joined: November 13, 2005
KitMaker: 561 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 03:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Trumpeter,

I decided to make it official and point on some facts about the way how accurate and how selective you are producing your model kits.

I can´t ignore anymore the fact that every model kit you are producing has a lot of shape issues or missing details, which have to be solved with additional expensive etched parts from China and Co.

Let´s take an example. Your late D-30 howitzer is a joke and a diret insult to every serious paying modeller. How can you dare to sell it as a "late" version when the muzzle brake stills the same. At your catalogue you have posted a picture for the "late" type #02329 (page 39), using Yugoslav military archives:


It shows an Yugoslav late D-30 howitzer during excercise in 1997.

here´s a picture from the Yugoslav army in 2002, using the same late D-30 howitzer:


here´s my D-30 howitzer, built from SKIF:


and this is your "late" D-30 howitzer


Probably you management can remember, some 4-5 years ago, I wrote to you an E-Mail with a complete list of Soviet / Russian Cold War era vehicles. All the tanks and vehicles you are producing and selling meanwhile are from the list I sent to you. Meanwhile I´m wondering why you still producing 2-3 different Iraqi T-62 tanks, a lot of T-64 tanks and so on. You have never thought about trying to make some serious stuff from the Yugoslav civil war in the 90´s, like the M-84 and M-84A tanks, Yugoslav M-80 and M-80A APC´s or OT M-60.

You never tried to solve the issues with your SA-6 KUB air defence system (chassis or the ridiculous rockets).

What about some different sets for Soviet/ Russian tankers during Cold War era or different sets of Yugoslav army forces in 1/35. But no, you still producing German-Nazi vehicles, airplanes and soldiers from WWII in this version, and that version, at any scale and so on. Who cares for WWII anymore?

If you want to be a serious company, with your meanwhile expensive retail prices, you should take more care for accuracy and about the stuff the people want to build.

Please do not forget, quality is important, not quantity !



It is rather simple: If you do not like the brand, don't buy their products.

And please, do not insult WWII modellers like myself and thousands and thousands more. You should be educated in your criticism, not agressive like in this type of post.

Sorry, but i am really offended at your insulting remarks towards fellow modellers.

Pablo
Graywolf
Staff MemberSenior Editor
HISTORICUS FORMA
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Izmir, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 6,405 posts
Armorama: 1,850 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 04:01 AM UTC
Hi Nenad,
I am really hard to understand why you start a thread in Armorama addresses to a company with the title "Hello Trumpeter" about your complaint instead of writing it to the company to ask for an explanation and fix their mistake asap. Maybe it was a boxing problem or something else. You may be right for yourself and some others maybe all, but in this way, this looks like a disparage more than a modeler's disappointment.
best regards



thueser
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European Union
Joined: October 10, 2012
KitMaker: 45 posts
Armorama: 36 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 04:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Who cares for WWII anymore?



Me, because we had enough Merkava's, T-whatever and MRAP stuff for now. I don't need any Yugoslavian hardware for sure. Enough is said in the other comments already.

Kind regards

Torsten
badger66
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Texas, United States
Joined: April 09, 2005
KitMaker: 251 posts
Armorama: 232 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 04:17 AM UTC
Great comment Gino well stated.
spoons
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 527 posts
Armorama: 500 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 04:36 AM UTC
what gino said and...
I for one am sick of the manufacturer rubbishing that seems to keep going on, the pro dragon/pro trumpeter bloggers that nearly brought down a reviewers site is getting boring.
If you want to point out the inaccuracies in a kit do it in a build review don't rubbish the whole company, as already mentioned go to facebook and message them a tweak list you might get a better response.
Removed by original poster on 06/09/14 - 17:16:54 (GMT).
Tojo72
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 04:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Imagine, if you will, if not one single member commented on this post.. and it was just left there dangling alone.. wouldn't that have been much better to keep him, and others, from making such posts in the future?

Ignoring this kind of thing makes it gradually go away.. but as long as this type of posters see a lot of attention and pages of controversial comments.. they will keep doing it in the future.

Just my opinion

Hisham



Just another thought,I have no horse in this race.I make my own judgements about what I build or don't build.However it is a discussion forum,and this so far is a discussion,unless it gets down and dirty or personal,then what's wrong with everyones opinion.Just because someone trashes Tamiya,Trumpeter,or DML,it doesn;t matter,if I want something I will still buy it,if not I won't.But to say everyone shouldn't engage a poster,well that defeats the purpose of a forum.

I have built Trumpeters Wyvern,Jeremiah O'Brien,Lexington and Hornet, and have their BTR-80 in the stash.
DerGeist
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Ohio, United States
Joined: January 21, 2008
KitMaker: 735 posts
Armorama: 707 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 05:01 AM UTC
He has a point though, although there are better ways to go about making it. There really is no excuse for manufacturers these days to release kits with such glaring errors with the amount of 1:1 originals in existence, and the technology at their disposal. With the amount of money we spend on a given kit we have the right to expect accuracy. Yes, we are modelers but there's a limit to what we should have to take from model companies.
shakazulu
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KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
Joined: November 26, 2006
KitMaker: 10 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 05:10 AM UTC
"Who cares for WWII anymore?".....The majority of model builders do......As a WW2 model builder I should say who cares about post WW2 stuff anyway....
hugohuertas
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 05:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

He has a point though, although there are better ways to go about making it. There really is no excuse for manufacturers these days to release kits with such glaring errors with the amount of 1:1 originals in existence, and the technology at their disposal. With the amount of money we spend on a given kit we have the right to expect accuracy. Yes, we are modelers but there's a limit to what we should have to take from model companies.




And we go back to the point of deciding what are "glaring" and what are "minor" accuracy issues...
Who has the truth?
Where is the limit, and for whom?
Again, at that point its your decission if you spend your money in a given kit or not, not all of us look for the same things in a kit; and now we have the invaluable help of previews and reviews done by other fellow modelers...
chumpo
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United States
Joined: August 30, 2010
KitMaker: 749 posts
Armorama: 521 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 05:33 AM UTC
I have one trumpeter kit , the Bruckenleger IV B . I bought it because it's the only kit of that vehicle . The chassis is not correct but since nobody else released anything close to it I have to suck it up and will try to fix the problems later . Dragon was suppose to release the 6330 but for some reason that never happened .
chnoone
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Armed Forces Europe, United States
Joined: January 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,036 posts
Armorama: 1,033 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 05:38 AM UTC
I am beginning to wonder if all the kits offered in the past were so much superior to the ones being offered now ?
Every manufacturer has it's top notch kits and some are not up to what we expect them to be.
Frankly we are spoiled and our expectation exceed reality.
Of course there should be no excuse when things get really bad ... like the M103 ... but it's the manufactures risk to continue down that path.
For all these individual kits which raise such disappointment (rightfully may I add) there are tons of others which excel !
........ and I am still waiting for a proper Leo 2A4.

Cheers
Christopher:-H

The MENG T-90A is a great kit btw.
chavey65
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United Kingdom
Joined: December 29, 2010
KitMaker: 39 posts
Armorama: 36 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 05:51 AM UTC
Ow well if you put your head up in the trench expect it to be shot off,haven't got a problem with members of the forum expressing their opinions,thats what it's all about however i must take issue with the quote,'WHO CARES FOR WW2 ANYMORE'well me old son i do,probably the biggest market for model companies,given the 1914/d day anversary,and what's been produced over the years,just look at the current new releases,look at the czech companies,producing all, sorts most of it related to ww2,perhaps as was said earlier'facebook'might be the forum you need,perhaps after this pointless rant you may decide to stay there,still hey ho.
Regards Allan
CMOT
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
ARMORAMA
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 06:41 AM UTC
The only thing that can really be added is that there is no such thing as a perfect model. Every company makes changes to a model, usually due to current moulding technology, some due to poor reference and others purely because the information is not available to them. I have recently reviewed a number of Revell of Germany models of which some are exceptional, most are reasonable and some are for youngsters coming to the hobby who want quick gratification. Therefore if you picked up a model of theirs such as the 1/32nd scale Corsair you would I suspect be disappointed, but you could not apply your thoughts across rtheir range on the basis of that one model.

Trumpeter has had their dogs but they have also had some stars, their range of KV tanks being fantastic models for the price. You should not critic a company across its whole range, only those models they have released that fail to meet your expectations. Regarding what models they release, they release what they believe the hobbyist will buy the most of.
hugohuertas
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 09:29 AM UTC
Amen, Darren
Agree 110% with you


PS: Meng's T-90 is a great kit, firmly a step -or two- ahead Trumpeter's ones, but I hate their plastic, and I feel it a bit over engineered in some áreas. I'm not very convinced either by their movable suspension. But a solid kit, no doubts.
grunt136mike
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,896 posts
Armorama: 1,858 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 10:00 AM UTC
Hi Everybody;

WELL LETS SEE !!!--HERE WE GO AGAIN !!!
A NEW CAN OF WORMS HAS BEEN OPENED UP. We have Forgotten that this is Suppose too be A Fun Hobby, the Hobby has Evolved in too A Big Business and has taken the fun out of it for some people. Maybe the Blame is that Technology has taken over the Hobby and has advanced too Far, as has been stated there will never be A 100% accurate kit its just not possible both scale wise as Cost.
One has too take into account that maybe the Statements were Motivated by Politics or just personal dislikes, after all He Is A Kit Maker Himself and I am sure there are some who will say that His Conversions are not accurate either

CHEERS; MIKE.
Namabiiru
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
#399
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Rhode Island, United States
Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 2,888 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 10:08 AM UTC
Hear, Hear, Mike!

lordjohnrock
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Nova Scotia, Canada
Joined: July 12, 2011
KitMaker: 59 posts
Armorama: 59 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:12 AM UTC
Not verybody likes WW2 AFVs I just got tried of it.I am more into Modern AFVs But thank god there's choice .But with Trumpeter I love there t-64s better than Skif anyday.
Belt_Fed
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 - 12:24 PM UTC
No model is perfectly accurate. Some are better than others but me must ask ourselves this: do our issues with a kit's accuracy ruin the enjoyment of the hobby as a whole? if it does, you unfortunately have chosen the wrong hobby, the wrong kit, or, most importantly, the wrong attitude.

I am sorry you do not enjoy Trumpeter's products. I hope they improve, which they most likely will not, and if that is the case, I hope that one day you can grow to overlook them.
 _GOTOTOP