Paul,

I'm by far no expert on the M103, A1, A2,so I will bow to the expertise of Len Dyer the Director of the Armor and Cav Museum.

According to him it is an A1. So I can't debate the issue. He has the paperwork and history of the vehicles he has down there. You need to address your doubts and concerns with him. I know he did state that he also has the T43 from Aberdeen, but this was not it.

Dave

Unfortunately this seems to be M103 or even T43. It cannot be M103A1 as it does not have gunner's sight bulge, the commander's cupola is early type with the remotely controlled MG, the front fenders are of early type and some other details on the hull identify it as M103/T43...

Maybe it was converted to M103A1 in some point of its history, but currently the turret on it is certainly not A1, so maybe it was replaced...

I guess it all boils down to who/what you wish to believe. As I stated, I'm no expert. But I guess I choose to believe Len. He's got the vehicle and documentation.

I'm not trying to start any arguments. I was just trying to provide information and pictures. Do with it what you wish....ignore or use, it's your call.

Well said, Dave.

Fair enough, Dave, I'm not casting aspersions on anyone's expertise. However another interpretation is that you were pointed to the wrong tank under a tarp. We all make mistakes and perhaps Len pointed you towards the wrong one.

It simply can't be an M103A1 without the updated gunners sight bulge. That was one of the defining features of the upgrade and the designation change.

The fact that they have the T43 from APG and that this tank is painted in that rather distinctive and appalling colour (that anyone who saw the "mile of tanks" years ago will remember) leads me to suspect that Len directed you to the wrong vehicle in error. Not that they don't have an A1 or that Len doesn't know the difference, he just may have forgotten that the T43 was on the end of the line and the A1 was next to it. Or something silly like that.

With respect.

Paul

Notwithstanding that is is or is not an A1, the photos do show the distintive heat shield in place below the bustle, which some had asked about previously and is not included in the kit.

Paul

And I choose to believe R.P. Hunnicutt and according to him, the tank on your photos is not M103A1. Maybe they indeed have M103A1 somewhere there, but that is not it.

Anyway, thanks a lot for your efforts and photos!

Dave, you have pics of two 103's here. One green with the exhaust shield and the rust colored one with out but with a heat shield on the lower bustle. Any chance you could get back and take shots of the turrets of both? And let me say thanks for the pics and I am jealous as all get out that you have that kind of hook up with Len and all his wonderful toys!! Thanks for the picsyou have already posted.

Here are some photos of the rust colored M103A1 something rather from a few years back when it was still at Aberdeen.





And also the T43 that was at the 4th Infantry Museum at Fort Hood several years ago. Not sure if its still there or not.





I dig M103's. Been slowly working on my build - but am also disappointed in the accuracy errors.

cn

Hello everyone,

My, how a firestorm of a debate has started.

Chris,
Dave's current photos are the same has the Aberdeen example. Note the white circle on turret and two white marks on rear left fender. So this is the Aberdeen tank now at Ft. Benning. Case solved.

Pawel,
Now having solved the above, it is likely that an M103 turret was placed on the said above subject. However, unless this was one of the models that did not get completely redone before the project was ended in 1959 we'll never know.
I'm still hopefully that the second one thats coming into Ft. Benning will be "correct."

Easy8,
I too am a bit on the jealous side. like the Joker said, "Where does he get all those wonderful toys?"

And now for something completely different..........

I've put some paint on the M103 tonight. Here's a test of paint that has been sitting in storage for around 4 years.



Placed it on the extra fender that was in the kit.

Painted turret. Yes, hand painted. More than likely it will need a second coat.











Now normally during the build I would of painted the road wheels and then done the inner rims before assembly. But, like I said, I just got the paints out of storage. So, painting the road wheels will be interesting.

See ya in the funnies......................

Hand painting... ouch, this is one big sucker to hand paint. What paint are you using? I have mine drying after the final coat of MM enamel olive drab. I painted the rubber part of the wheels before assembly but still have to do the rims of those in OD. I wish they would have made just the rubber part so it would slip on the steel rim part so things would have been easier to paint. I can shoot a few pics if you want. But I will warn all it is an out of the box build. None of the shape errors have been fixed, just some small things scoured from the extra pieces they give you.

Easy8,

I'm using MM Olive drab, same as you. Yup, it is big for hand painting, but I feel I have more control and I can see were I need to touch up better than Air brushing, besides I can't use one in the apartment.

This is OOB build also. Like I said, I normally paint the road wheels before assembly, but that didn't happen this time around.
So we'll see when I get to the hull how good I really am in my own mind.

See ya in the funnies............

Easy8,

I will not be going back down to Benning anytime soon. Len is very kind in allowing me to come down, and I don't want to over use his kindness. Maybe when they get their next shipment from Aberdeen or Annistion I will consider going.

Dave

I can understand that and do not blame you a bit. Thanks again for the shots you shared. Any idea when/what they are getting next?

According to Len, they have finally gotten approval to move most of the rest of the Aberdeen collection to Benning (Armor and Cav specific items) They are just being held up by funding, so he said probably in the next year and a half to two years.

Specific vehicles that he knows are coming soon are the Mark4 Female, M6A1 Heavy tank, M103A1 (maybe an actual one, not pieced together). He is also trying to acquire several more vehicles from Anniston AD.

It's ever changing. Makes it interesting when I do go down. Not just the same old stuff. He recently acquired 3 M551's off of a range there at Benning, which he plans to use for parts for the two M551s already in the collection.

He also now has two completed covered pads to store vehicles on and approval to build a third one. Soon the entire collection will be stored under cover.

Thank god for that! It's about time that some of those pieces got under cover. It's too late for some of the really early stuff, though. The Mk IV and the Whippet were just rust held together by paint 10 years ago, much less now.

Paul

Glad to see things moving there, I need to make a run that way when I get back in the country. Just need to figure out how to convince the wife to take the weekend and go look at tanks.

The area is not open to the Public, so you will have to get permission to get in. Otherwise it will be a wasted trip.

Plus they are not there Friday - Sunday.

For now, I'll settle for things being under cover even if I can't get in to see them. At least they'll still exist in some future time whena museum is built and I _can_ go see them.

:-)

Paul

Minor update,

I'll be moving everything into another room over the weekend, so life interputist has struck again.
Need the current room for Handicapped father-in-law who's coming in from Missouri to live with us for a bit. VA is kicking him out of place in St. Louis.

Anyways, will have things back up by Monday, I hope, so not to worry, this is just a minor set back.

See ya in the funnies..................

Hey Gang,

Room move done.
I've got some more paint on the 103, took about 2 hrs. to get what you see here.
For those of you that would like to know the brush sizes used, a number 4 and number 6 horse hair brushes. Yes, I do get some shedding off them but not very much.

Anyways, here's the pix's.











I hope to have the first coat on the hull done this weekend and start second coat on the turret afterwards. Then I hope to start weathering it a bit.

See ya in the funnies..............

Dang, took me a few to find the thread.

Anyways, started second coat on turret yesterday. Trying to finish up the hulls first coat.

So far, so good.









See ya in the funnies........................

Hey gang,

I had to break down and go get a rattle can to finish up the primary paint on the 103 today at LHS. Let's hope I don't mess it up.

Yes, it was taking longer then I'd planned for.

See ya in the funnies....................

Hey gang,

Build this out of an old cat lounger and some butcher string.









Redneck paint booth at its finest.

Make do with what you got..

See ya in the funnies..............

Well, The rig worked!











Let it dry overnight and hit it with weathering. Not bad.

See ya in the funnies.................