Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Dragon DS tracks disintegrating/splitting?
Beastmaster
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 11:52 AM UTC
I think they've invested a lot of money in making this Dragon Styrene stuff so it's as if they have to use it. Maybe someone at Dragon's reputation is stacked on it or something.

Hey Dragon if you're reading this .......at least put Magic Tracks in the same box so people have the choice. Most other companies like Meng and Takom seem to be doing indie links in all of their new releases. It's a pain trying to get hold of Magic Tracks on their own.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 01:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I think they've invested a lot of money in making this Dragon Styrene stuff so it's as if they have to use it. Maybe someone at Dragon's reputation is stacked on it or something.

Hey Dragon if you're reading this .......at least put Magic Tracks in the same box so people have the choice. Most other companies like Meng and Takom seem to be doing indie links in all of their new releases. It's a pain trying to get hold of Magic Tracks on their own.



RE: DRAGON bringing back "Magic Tracks"-

Not going to happen...

DRAGON generally ignores the issues that modellers complain about. Writing to them falls on deaf ears, or in the best case, if they EVER answer, they say, "Not OUR fault..."

So far, my "DS" Tracks have held up- Operative words being, "SO FAR"... THAT could change any moment...
Gewehr43
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 09:13 PM UTC

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I won't buy Dragon kits with DS tracks. Given that they are increasingly making them their "standard" offering, that means I rarely by Dragon any more. Their competition has grown in recent years, so I don't know what they are thinking. Tracks are pretty basic to a tracked AFV and shouldn't have to be routinely aftermarketed.



I haven't bought a modern Dragon kit in a long time and I specifically avoid kits with DS tracks since it means I'll have to replace them. Dragon's missing out on sales here. Guess MT's just don't fit their sales model anymore.
Beastmaster
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 06:29 AM UTC

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I think they've invested a lot of money in making this Dragon Styrene stuff so it's as if they have to use it. Maybe someone at Dragon's reputation is stacked on it or something.

Hey Dragon if you're reading this .......at least put Magic Tracks in the same box so people have the choice. Most other companies like Meng and Takom seem to be doing indie links in all of their new releases. It's a pain trying to get hold of Magic Tracks on their own.



RE: DRAGON bringing back "Magic Tracks"-

Not going to happen...

DRAGON generally ignores the issues that modellers complain about. Writing to them falls on deaf ears, or in the best case, if they EVER answer, they say, "Not OUR fault..."

So far, my "DS" Tracks have held up- Operative words being, "SO FAR"... THAT could change any moment...





You're probably right there. I think they must live in ivory towers cut off from the rest of the world.
Wolverine2
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 07:57 PM UTC
Hello, I've been a member here for a long time but hardly ever posted anything. I have the Dragon M1A2 SEP that I bought a few years ago. I had gotten the running gear finished and the tracks painted 3 years ago and had to box it back up due to moving and other things. 2 weeks ago I dove back into the box because I was feeling the armor bug, and the tracks disintegrated in my hands. I have ordered a Bronco set from Roll Models and hope to have it back on the bench soon. I love the Dragon kit, but the tracks simply do not hold up to time, the plastic becomes extremely brittle. I kept the tracks in a plastic bag. When I painted them I used PollyScale and Tamiya paints.
Ricsot
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Panama
Joined: March 03, 2016
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 09:53 PM UTC
I have Tamiya vinyl tracks from a Pershing and a Chieftain bought new during the early 2000s disintegrate after painting them with Modelmaster metalizer paints.
After that I try not to use lacquer or enamel paints in one piece tracks.
easyco69
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 10:13 PM UTC

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Are you talking about shaker maker?



No. The Thingmaker was, more or less, a hotplate where metal molds filled with Plasti-Goop were placed. The Thingmaker heated the molds which, in turn, heated the Plasti-Goop and solidified it.





i had that thing maker as a kid lol
Beastmaster
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Posted: Friday, March 04, 2016 - 01:50 AM UTC

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Hello, I've been a member here for a long time but hardly ever posted anything. I have the Dragon M1A2 SEP that I bought a few years ago. I had gotten the running gear finished and the tracks painted 3 years ago and had to box it back up due to moving and other things. 2 weeks ago I dove back into the box because I was feeling the armor bug, and the tracks disintegrated in my hands. I have ordered a Bronco set from Roll Models and hope to have it back on the bench soon. I love the Dragon kit, but the tracks simply do not hold up to time, the plastic becomes extremely brittle. I kept the tracks in a plastic bag. When I painted them I used PollyScale and Tamiya paints.







Holy cow! Disintergrated! If that's not a real good reason to avoid them I don't know what is.
SteveG
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Posted: Sunday, July 09, 2017 - 09:40 AM UTC
I have had one experience with DS material on the Saladin kit - never again. I am getting back into Panthers and will use either Model Kasten of Tamiya's tracks. The DS will be heading for Dallas' waste disposal
Invincible
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Posted: Sunday, July 09, 2017 - 08:56 PM UTC
It seems dragon have made various mistakes involving DS: they are brittle, they are orange(why?) And they still charge ludicrous amounts of money for a kit with rubber band tracks and poor instructions!
j76lr
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Posted: Sunday, July 09, 2017 - 10:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Might just be bad DS batches. I've got Dragon models on the shelf and all are still OK.



all mine are fine too
brekinapez
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Posted: Sunday, July 09, 2017 - 10:57 PM UTC
Maybe it depends on the paints/weathering materials being put on them? I spray mine with Vallejo acrylics and use pigment powders for weathering and so far so good. I can see that anything using a solvent such as white spirit or alcohol might affect them, since they are just a type of plastic.

A soft, Green Army man kind of plastic.
jasegreene
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Posted: Sunday, July 09, 2017 - 11:17 PM UTC
For me,I hate any of those "rubber band" style tracks no matter what name they want to call them.I always get a aftermarket product or something that is in my spares box.
DG0542
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Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017 - 01:56 AM UTC
Never had a problem with the DS Track, and never had them break over time. I have one set on a model painted something like ten years now, and for five of those it was stored in an un-environmentally controlled attic space, which went from hot and humid, to cold, to hot and dry every year depending on the season. They are still good and solid.

I too am also wondering maybe it was a bad batch, or batches...or what is used to paint them. Also looking at several sets they are casted to darn near scale thickness which might also make them prone to breakage under stress.

As for aftermarket, why spend almost the same amount for a kit, for a new set of tracks...most people I know look at the kit and go "Nice Tank."

In summation, enjoy and build, don't complain.

Just my .02
j76lr
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Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017 - 02:35 AM UTC

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Never had a problem with the DS Track, and never had them break over time. I have one set on a model painted something like ten years now, and for five of those it was stored in an un-environmentally controlled attic space, which went from hot and humid, to cold, to hot and dry every year depending on the season. They are still good and solid.

I too am also wondering maybe it was a bad batch, or batches...or what is used to paint them. Also looking at several sets they are casted to darn near scale thickness which might also make them prone to breakage under stress.

As for aftermarket, why spend almost the same amount for a kit, for a new set of tracks...most people I know look at the kit and go "Nice Tank."

In summation, enjoy and build, don't complain.

Just my .02


agreed
j76lr
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Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017 - 02:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Maybe it depends on the paints/weathering materials being put on them? I spray mine with Vallejo acrylics and use pigment powders for weathering and so far so good. I can see that anything using a solvent such as white spirit or alcohol might affect them, since they are just a type of plastic.

A soft, Green Army man kind of plastic.


I`ve used AK track wash and AK rust . everything is fine ?
Tojo72
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Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017 - 03:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Maybe it depends on the paints/weathering materials being put on them? I spray mine with Vallejo acrylics and use pigment powders for weathering and so far so good. I can see that anything using a solvent such as white spirit or alcohol might affect them, since they are just a type of plastic.

A soft, Green Army man kind of plastic.


I`ve used AK track wash and AK rust . everything is fine ?



Lou,that track wash is pretty hot,maybe down the road they brittle up and crack


highpoint
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Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017 - 06:10 AM UTC
Hmmm,
Glad this one popped up again. I have about 7 or 8 shermans and 1 tigger with the DS tracks. An interesting thing happened to an M50 I build where you had to splice the DS track to get the right length. This build is about 6 years old and the track on the tank is fine---however, the leftover links were in the garage and became so brittle they disintegrated. Always wondered if it wasn't because the wife left the top off some pool chemicals once-left all and I mean all metal rusted.
Just looked at one I will have to replace as well. They are brittle and the paint work has gone glossy. weird!!
Jeff
brekinapez
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Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017 - 06:28 AM UTC
A Tiger II I built required removing two links to get it the right length.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017 - 09:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hmmm,
Glad this one popped up again. I have about 7 or 8 shermans and 1 tigger with the DS tracks. An interesting thing happened to an M50 I build where you had to splice the DS track to get the right length. This build is about 6 years old and the track on the tank is fine---however, the leftover links were in the garage and became so brittle they disintegrated. Always wondered if it wasn't because the wife left the top off some pool chemicals once-left all and I mean all metal rusted.
Just looked at one I will have to replace as well. They are brittle and the paint work has gone glossy. weird!!
Jeff



I have four Dragon kits in my stash, but thankfully, only one has the DS tracks-- it's the Ka-Mi amphibious tank. Fortunately for me, the Fruil tracks for the Type 95 are the same, and I've already replaced them. This is why I avoid the newer Dragon kits if I can--thier tracks, coupled with inaccuracies in the thier "Black Label" line and thier ever increasing price for what's in the box are beginning to relegate them to the bottom shelf in my opinion. There are other companies that appear to be eclipsing them now as some have mentioned above. I used to work in a LHS, and don't think much of thier sales or marketing techniques either. They do have offerings that nobody else has, but it's aggravating to have to seek out replacement parts that Dragon doesn't offer.
VR, Russ
bill_c
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MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017 - 09:12 PM UTC
OK, let's calm down for a moment.

ALL tracks react with solvents.

The Bronco tracks for the M1A1/2 series will come apart if paints or washes get to them. They simply will react and may disintegrate.

I did not know that the M1A2 SEP Dragon kit had DS tracks. The older kits all had MT that you assembled one at a time (more like "link & length" without the length).

I have personally had little or no trouble with DS tracks. The Tamiya vinyl and especially Italeri vinyl is another matter.

We need to compare apples to apples here, not all "rubber band" tracks from different makers.
brekinapez
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Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017 - 11:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

OK, let's calm down for a moment.

ALL tracks react with solvents.

The Bronco tracks for the M1A1/2 series will come apart if paints or washes get to them. They simply will react and may disintegrate.

I did not know that the M1A2 SEP Dragon kit had DS tracks. The older kits all had MT that you assembled one at a time (more like "link & length" without the length).

I have personally had little or no trouble with DS tracks. The Tamiya vinyl and especially Italeri vinyl is another matter.

We need to compare apples to apples here, not all "rubber band" tracks from different makers.



Yes, they all do. Sometimes they don't even need solvents. I opened a Tamiya Wespe kit to find not two belts but many, many fragments of belts.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017 - 11:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

OK, let's calm down for a moment.

ALL tracks react with solvents.

The Bronco tracks for the M1A1/2 series will come apart if paints or washes get to them. They simply will react and may disintegrate.

I did not know that the M1A2 SEP Dragon kit had DS tracks. The older kits all had MT that you assembled one at a time (more like "link & length" without the length).

I have personally had little or no trouble with DS tracks. The Tamiya vinyl and especially Italeri vinyl is another matter.

We need to compare apples to apples here, not all "rubber band" tracks from different makers.



Bill, that doesn't mean you won't have trouble in the future-- my Ka-Mi was still in the box un-assembled when I picked up the track, still in its cellophane wrapper, and it cracked into about eight pieces. I've talked with several others who've had similar issues. There's something in their plastic that causes an issue, perhaps it's the mold release agent. And it could be that there are some improperly molded items out there too but there are enough folks with issues that you'd think Dragon would take notice. Still, they insist on including the DS tracks in thier newer kits. And yes, it's true that older kits have problems too (although I have Tamiya kits that are nearing 30 years old, and a couple of Monogram kits that are near 50 years old that have no problem whatsoever). But when a kit manufacturers tracks don't last more than a couple of years in the box, that's an issue.
VR, Russ
iowabrit
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Posted: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 12:36 AM UTC
DS tracks are one of the main reasons (the other being the disappointment at 'Black Label')I have only bought one DML kit in the last three years. I only bought that one because it was at a giveaway price and I already have fruils and modelkasten tracks for that particular vehicle.
I built a Type 95 Ha Go, within two months the tracks had fallen apart and they were painted with acrylics.....