I opened up my dragon T-28 super tank and the DS track where still sealed in the bag and broke into pieces just lifting the bag out of the box.

Some of them I have exact dates for, some of the others I bought from another modeller who was thinning his stash and he might have gotten some of them from someone else.

I know all I need to know (Need to know basis??).
DS is headed for the bin. Italeris over-stiff vinyl is also on the bin-list. Still not decided about some of the Tamiya and Tasca/Asuka stuff. I may choose the safe route and replace them as well.
/ Robin

Was there an oily residue inside?

/ Robin

DITTO...

Consider this as customer to customer word of mouth.
A friendly warning to others that they may want to be careful about what they buy or at least know that they may need to plan for aftermarket tracks.
I don't give a f about how much, or rather extremely little, Dragon cares about my opinion. I probably care as little about what they think as they care about my opinion.
I care about other model builders and try to warn off those that I can. In a way it is similar to others who happen to be experts on the M3 or M4 medium tanks and take their valuable time to explain to everyone who cares to listen/read what is wrong/right good/bad about a specific kit. Valuable information for those who want to build as correctly as possible. The manufacturer may or may not give a s**t about what we say/write about the accuracy of their kits.
Some companies take it seriously and some ignore us, that's OK with me since I have more or less started ignoring some companies. Cuts both ways ....

Some people should stop hoping that Dragon (or others) will ever give a s**t about what we say/write, some people should stop stating the obvious about manufacturers ignoring us and start to realise that it is all about informing each other.
If some optimist still thinks that Dragon will care then let them, there is no point in stating the obvious. Most of us know already.

/ Robin

Wow, I can’t believe this thread is so old and I’ve never even heard of this issue with DS tracks. Thing is, I’ve never encountered this problem personally, either with DS tracks disintergrating in the box or on the handful of built models on the display case. The oldest kit I have displayed with DS track is probably around 8-9 years old and the tracks look fine, I don’t see any cracks or splits or anything.

I mostly build sherman tanks and I hated DS track when it came out but it grew on me later when I learned how to trim them, adjust, stretch, and CA them on my shermans. I used to remove them from the box immediately after purchase because I prefer panda plastic tracks. DS also tend to be oversized and on some types the trackpads are comically thick (T-48) but I’ve never encountered the quality control problems I’ve read about and seen on this thread. I still have a box of DS tracks I kept which I originally intended to dispose of. They are all fine. I like several of the DS sherman tracks a lot. The T-49 and T54E1 tracks are excellent. I use acrylic paints, I prime them black and then use color that apply to the conditions that vehicle is representing (mud, dirt, dust, sand etc) then dry brush them with metalic colors and sometimes add pigments to simulate light rusting. The last thing I do is a dullcote and I’ve been doing this for a decade and not one single DS track has fallen apart on me.

I don’t use DS tracks on my higher end builds, all my Tasca shermans have panda plastic or fruil tracks. Panda plastics is by far my favorite track for Shermans, it’s plastic, it’s easy to clean and with a simple jig can be built very quickly. You also don’t have to glue it until you have your tension properly set.

I’m sorry to read so many of you have had issues with DS tracks

That's circa 2012.
But the Tiger I kit of the same vintage are still fine?

The batch problem could be limited to specific days of production so could be just specific kits. I've heard of the T28 being affected before. The tracks in mine had snapped before I sold the kit. Considering you had to cut and glue new lengths anyway it really wasn't a concern.

I should note I've used these a number of times with no issues. I use only acrylic paints; my washes are oil with Mig thinner, and pigments with the same. I'd bet strong solvents are part of the issue here.

No. Strong solvents can be part of the issue but I have several sets of tracks breaking up INSIDE the factory sealed baggies and strong solvents have never come close to those kits (unless it happened in the factory).
The oily residue leaking from the DS-stuff attacks the plastic in the sealed bag and softens it.
Lucky for me that the tracks were still in their bags otherwise I might have had track imprints on the styrene parts ....
If the problem is part of the delivery from the factory then our treatment of the tracks doesn't matter.
See the images of track crumbs inside sealed bags that I posted above.
The most probable cause is same kind of failure when mixing the plastic compounds and over time this will cause some tracks to fail. Those who stick their kits in the stash for a few years, call it quarantine, before getting around to building them are lucky since they gave the problem time to show itself before ruining a build.
/ Robin

Edit:
Images reposted for easy reference.
Please note that the first image clearly shows tracks still inside their factory sealed bag.

and

The second image was taken after "massaging" the tracks a little. Note the oily sheen on the track crumbs.
Again: Solvents have not been close to these tracks.

Mine were the same in that they were in the plastic bag in the Kit and never came near any paint or solvent. As I said on another thread on here, I do think there is a question of the merchantibility of the kits, but then no one is going to sue Dragon for the price of a set of tracks. As said above the most important thing is to pass this information on to others in the modelling community so that they are forewarned of this potential problem with what are now some of the most expensive mainstream kits on the market

I'm open to the 'bad batch' argument as I do have some DS that has decayed, and some just as old that shows nothing going on (yet). If I had to guess, not being someone who has much experience mixing such compounds, I would think that one element was added in the wrong amount such that not all of it was taken up by the other elements and over time the excess has leeched itself out of the mixture as well as affected the curing of the mix as a whole.

Double and TRIPLE "DITTO"!!!

The same goes for the posts about why a specific kit has not yet been released by a specific company despite the fact that they said it was under development years ago

/ Robin

Hi, Robin!

I'll second that motion!

Here's a half-baked theory:

I have a BF 109-E kit that had DS inserts for the wheel wells. One of them became dry and brittle and broke into three pieces in the bag; the other is stiff but not yet brittle although there is faint cracking where it flexes. Of the other sets of DS I have checked the ones that looked bad all had the brownish liquid residue in the bag with them. It kind of reminds me of the resins and stuff that seep out of materials like certain woods when you heat them.

Could a shipment of kits have been locked up in a shipping container that became hot enough to 'cook' the DS and distill out one of the chemicals?

It's not a bad guess. All of these plastics are "thermo-labile" and break down more at some temps then at others - generally, the warmer they are, the faster they decompose and "out-gas". This is further complicated by the quality control issues some of us think may plague the model plastic-supply industry - not only for different makers making chemically-different styrenes and vinyls, but of course differences among batches from a given maker. So some batches of kits may well be more-susceptible to heat effects then are other batches...

And maybe don't be surprised to find that some kits stored at higher temps will exhibit evidence of break-down - not only in the DS parts, but also of the styrene as well - maybe increased brittleness, etc. So maybe a load of kits traveled from China in the top-most container exposed to the sun... Or maybe sat for weeks or months in a hot warehouse. These occasional events could contribute to the varied observations folks report- where some may have bought the over-heated kits with degraded parts while others got kits handled better and kept cooler.

Bob

Dennis;

Your "song" about just go invest in AM tracks of your choice seems just about as old as the one about DS tracks going bad on folks! We've all seen both old "songs" for quite a long time!

But there IS a really BIG difference between the meaning behind those two old songs...

Those complaining about a bad product (DS) are expressing their unhappiness with a faulty product that they have suffered and which continues to be inflicted on folks despite its obvious and well-documented failings - folks complaining about companies that continue to take their money and simply disregard what the customers are saying.

The other "old song" - about how one is free to go buy something to replace the faulty new part at increased cost to that customer - is, simply put, a strange-seeming (because it was uttered by a consumer, not by a seller) iteration of "caveat emptor" - "let the buyer beware!" - or, in less-formal terms, "stop complaining and up your's!". I actually find it almost as startling as if someone said "I'm perfectly OK with Ford selling me a new truck with a faulty tranny - and not being willing to replace it for me when it implodes while under warranty. I'm perfectly happy with going out and buying an AM replacement tranny at my own expense, thank you!"

The "logic" that depends from that "you are free to go buy AM stuff - at your added expense - to replace sometimes-faulty OEM parts sold as part of the NEW KIT" sentiment is that kit-makers really should just skip supplying tracks of any sort in the kits - and leave the tracks up to the buyer sourcing them from elsewhere. It would definitely save them kit-production money!

Not necessarily a bad idea, mind you, if one goes into buying tank kits from the first with the notion that you actually want and intend to get tracks from some other specific source (not because the OEM tracks were crappy, but because "I really like what Fruilismo makes") in any case. But, of course, for the rest of the buyers, not good, specially if if one seeks to buy a kit which one can ostensibly build as a complete model right from the original box...

And YES, as some have stated, it's all about the MONEY.

Which probably explains why some other great and up-coming kit companies are apparently staying away from things like "DS" tracks in their kits... I'm thinking here of Meng, Rye Field Models, Takom, and even Trumpeter and Hobby Boss - all of whom seem to NOT want to follow the dubious Dragon DS route to saving a little MONEY in producing their tank kits... And do please note that even the Dragon seems to be sniffing the dissatisfaction air... They are now offering Magic Tracks in many of their re-box and re-release kits, as a "bonus". Maybe the D IS actually responding to where the MONEY is going in armor kits...

And YES, as long as Dragon (and some others) want to continue disregarding the evidence and keep inflicting faulty DS products on us modelers... I'll put MY money into kits from companies which are not foisting potentially bad "DS" parts on me. You see, I KNOW that I WON'T ever get to build the vast majority of kits I already have, but I LIKE buying kits, and I LIKE buying kits which I CAN reasonably expect to be able to build FROM THE BOX without NEEDING to buy AM parts. Because I do have more kits then I will likely build, and new kits and new subjects come out every month, I really DON'T feel any NEED to buy any specific subject... there's plenty of other subjects out there that I could be just as happy getting (and, yeah, likely never building! ).

My point, here, is pretty much the same as Robin's: All this is to help modelers be INFORMED. Each of us is always free to buy whatever kit and parts we want and have money for. Going in knowing that some of the common parts may well be a serious pit-fall is just INFORMATION that you are free to use or ignore as you make purchase decisions. It's good information, and MAY save you some money and some problems. So it's potenially valuable info. And of course, you are just as free to go buy AM replacement parts at added expense if that is what you want to do. But I doubt that someone telling you that really offers you much usable, let alone valuable, "new" INFORMATION!

Some "old" songs are actually much more worth listening to then are others!

Cheers! Bob