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Interestingly Jonathan I had exactly the opposite experience; I stopped modeling and competitiing in the armor classes b/c it seemed that the judges looked right past my "real weathering" approach and always gave the prize to those models that had the "artistic" panel highlighting /modulation/ rust streak treatments.

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Sorry to hear that man. It really sucks when others knock your work just because they don't like your style.

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I've seen rusty Zimmerit models. That's not a style, that's not realistic, it's impossible. If you painted a Jagtiger pink it would be more plausible and more artistic than rusty zimmerit.

That's for sure! I'd like to know how a concrete paste (zimmerit) can rust? Just goes to show- more thoughtlessness...

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Personally, I go for the more artistic look with rust, streaks, and modulation. But then again, I don't care much for replicating a specific vehicle...rather I build and paint the way I want to (which I know is unrealistic). Now, I can certainly understand if you get enjoyment from doing the research and trying to make it realistic. That's awesome; it's just not my cup of tea.

What I hate is when people judge my work as inferior or ridiculous because they don't like the style I use. I just got back from a show recently and some of the judges reamed me because they didn't like the modulation I used, and that really annoyed me.

Again, I enjoy the art of the hobby, and I do respect the hours of research and building that the historical-focus modelers go for. I just wish there wasn't this "that's the wrong way to do ____" mentality for another person's style.

But that's just my 4 cents

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I couldn't agree more.

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That's for sure! I'd like to know how a concrete paste (zimmerit) can rust? Just goes to show- more thoughtlessness...

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Probably the same way that rust streaks appear on concrete driveways or in bathtubs. THe water carries the rust from the metal and deposits it on whatever

Interestingly Jonathan I had exactly the opposite experience; I stopped modeling and competitiing in the armor classes b/c it seemed that the judges looked right past my "real weathering" approach and always gave the prize to those models that had the "artistic" panel highlighting /modulation/ rust streak treatments.

After reading the thread I felt I had to add my 2cents. I'm a realism builder I was an armor crewman for 27 years on 6 different tanks so I build judged on my experiance. I know where the mud builds up, how a crew tracks mud and what rusts. Also the last tank in a colum is covered in dust the first tank is fairly clean, I was the #3 tank PSGs wing man always tail end charlie with Div 86. I looked like I was wearing khakis instead of BDUs. In addition don't forget plant material, if you drive through a field grass and plants get mixed in the mud and soil and they harden into bricks.
When I was in the 11th ACR we had to keep the tanks fully operational but we didn't run around spot painting. Tools were natural wood. One time they were painted for in IG inspection and had to be scraped clean thats what the IG wanted. Also tools are only mounted externally in the field in the motorpool they are locked up unless you want them filling someone elses inventory short fall. US tanks store all tools in the sponson boxes.
Also you can never get the tank totally clean you don't use soap and a scrub brush. You chip at mud and use a hose. A faint patina of dirt will remain.
In Fort Drum and probally elsewhere they recycle the wash rack water so after a few tanks are washed you are spraying the tank with dirty water so it leaves a film after it drys. Its also really nasty for wash rack hose fights and new guy baptisms.
I can appreciate the artistic paint jobs but I know its art and not for me. Its like comparing a gold plated m1 Garand to a surplus one that may have seen action. Its nice to look at but I'll take the shooter.
Contests are a rough thing every judge brings their own prejudice to the judging table. I gave up on them and build for me and an ocasional commission.

Tom

One thing I'll toss out there is that from my experience it seems that judging is often like at an art contest, or perhaps based on perceived work. A model with lots of rust, filters, shading, rain marks, and so on is both visually interesting and demonstrates a certain level of effort and skill. It may look like a cartoon but it's a cartoon that took a large degree of time. While it is possible to make a realistic model visually complex and interesting most of the ones that I have seen in shows are painted, pigmented with monochrome dust, and called good. If I were judging a contest and saw two models built with the same degree of skill but one with overdone but skilled weathering such that it looked like an oil painting and another that was not overdone but also visually bland and that looked like significantly less overall work and effort, I'm going with the artistic one as it shows more effort. Now, if I see a well done and visually interesting realistic one, I'm going with that because I've realized how much harder it is to pull that off. Just a thought or two.

One thing I'll toss out there is that from my experience it seems that judging is often like at an art contest, or perhaps based on perceived work. A model with lots of rust, filters, shading, rain marks, and so on is both visually interesting and demonstrates a certain level of effort and skill. It may look like a cartoon but it's a cartoon that took a large degree of time. While it is possible to make a realistic model visually complex and interesting most of the ones that I have seen in shows are painted, pigmented with monochrome dust, and called good. If I were judging a contest and saw two models built with the same degree of skill but one with overdone but skilled weathering such that it looked like an oil painting and another that was not overdone but also visually bland and that looked like significantly less overall work and effort, I'm going with the artistic one as it shows more effort. Now, if I see a well done and visually interesting realistic one, I'm going with that because I've realized how much harder it is to pull that off. Just a thought or two.

Rob your picture of the Centurion turret with the green replacement bins, appears there are rust streaks all over the turret where the paint has chipped off exposing the bare metal, IMHO.

http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/landshark41/media/IMG_3869_zpsace8739b.jpg.html

First time trying to post a pic. Should be a pic of rust on an Ambrams in transit to somewhere.

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http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/landshark41/media/IMG_3869_zpsace8739b.jpg.html

First time trying to post a pic. Should be a pic of rust on an Ambrams in transit to somewhere.

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This looks like an Abrams that is on the preposition ships that the US keeps around just in case. These tanks sit in a salt air environment on a ship for months. They pull em off and do Preventative maintenance/upgrades as needed and put em back on the boat. This causes lots of rust on exposed metal but no streaking since the tank is stored in doors. You need rain or water flowing across the rust to make a streak. This is how streaks get on non metal surfaces. I am one of the folks that think some rust streaks are fine but it can (and has been) be over done. A little goes a long way...

Aren't contests by nature a bit of a lottery? When comparing two Sherman or two Panthers side by side and entered into the same category which one should get the votes? If the build quality is similar then the Judges usually award what appears to be any extra effort or work and/or the style they prefer. Just seems natural, like it or not and just as bad for either style that loses.

Isn't there one comp that focuses and awards points based on mostly on build quality? IPMS? If so that seems to be the one realistic builders should target and enter ....

Because AK makes products and markets the crap out of them. Look at how they package colors, they change one or two of the colors in one kit, then it becomes another one. I'd like to try their streaking products, but I have a hard time justifying it.

Just wanted to share some AAV rust. Rust was the bane of our existence, a constant fight that kept us busy when we weren’t in the field. Not the hull, its aluminum but all the nuts, bolts, springs, attachments and the turret. I have nightmares of wire brushes and 15/40. Back when we had the EAAK mounted that stuff would rust and whole sheets of it would fall away. The turrets in the mid-90s looked awful because they were not part of the rebuild/IROAN program. We would have to remove the EAAK and UGWS to send it to Barstow for rebuild and then put that rusty faded EAAK and UGWS on freshly delivered bright and spotless fresh out of the paint shop AAV.
The main thing that rusts now is the roadwheels as they are steel as opposes to the old aluminum wheels prior to RAM/RS modification. Those are just left to rust, not worth the effort to keep them clean. Also all the areas on the muffler that aren’t covered in the thermal coating are rust, but it blends with the brown in the camouflage pretty good. You’ll also find on most turrets a scar on the starboard side near the front at the bottom, that is from the raising the rear plenums and the plenums scrapping against the turret. The two torsion springs on the cargo hatches are always rust poles. The constant flexing causes the paint to chip away and expose the metal. All those ¾” bolts holding the track shrouds on were always just rust covered due to being removed, reinstalled or constantly checked and would leave faint streaks on the shroud.
It was just due to the environment. There were no problems with rust in 29 Palms or at Camp Fuji, but at Camp Pendleton it was a constant battle since we were essentially right on the beach and the worst of all was the constant losing battle against rust on Okinawa. You would return from lunch and the stupid thing would be rusty after spending the morning scrubbing, scraping, oiling and painting. Stupid rust! It showed up more prominently on the older faded vehicles. The LVTs we had in the museum rusted pretty quick too. The LVTA5 Modified we lent for the Flags of Our Fathers movie returned as deck cargo and looked like an oversized Cheetos. The whole thing got sandblasted and returned to its inaccurate paint scheme, which caused other problems. I spent days digging sand out of the oil bath air filters. There are a couple of WWII Life color photographs of LVT1s in training and they to look like Cheetos churning through the water.
Want to be disgusted/horrified? Look at the .50-barrel on the AAV tac-marked 3F309 in the pics below. That’s what happens when you lend reservists your toys. I threw a shot of the tools in just to do. No shinny wood as described earlier but the yellow handle that is on the sledge hammers usually doesn’t get portrayed on models. And that is a normal hammer found on most vehicles.

You've clearly never tried to climb up a glacis in hobnailed boots. They were added to marching boots to prolong the life of the soles but tank crewmen do much less marching than infantry and it's positively lethal trying to move round on a tank with only metal studs in contact with the armour plate. In the British army at least, crews would not be wearing hobnailed boots. It's hard to imagine that the laws of physics applied differently in other armies.

This was a response to marcb's post at 0458 on 18/02 by the way - 'Reply' seems to assume that I want to reply to the last post in the thread, which I hadn't even seen when I typed it....

In response to the subsequent ones, if you don't like the comments made by comp judges, you're not obliged to enter the comp. There are some I just avoid altogether if i don't rate the judges as what I consider competent - my criteria may differ to those of others though. In any event, it's not as though the results will change your wealth, health or attractiveness to women, so is it really that important enough to get angry about what someone else thinks? Nobody thinks less of someone because their model didn't win, do they?