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New Book- The Sherman Tank Scandal of WWII
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
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Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 - 01:41 AM UTC
So this book isn't based on your thesis for there at all?
AUSTanker
Joined: September 04, 2013
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Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 - 03:44 AM UTC
DeJohn VS. Temple Decision: Veteran's Win A Victory for Campus Free Speech:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2058593/posts
DaGreatQueeg
Joined: August 01, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 - 04:46 AM UTC
Armored Thunderbolt: The U.S. Army Sherman in World War II Hardcover – October 10, 2008
brekinapez
Joined: July 26, 2013
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Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 - 04:52 AM UTC
That's all well and good, but the most important piece of the puzzle is yet to be revealed:
What was in your thesis that set that guy off to the degree you describe?
What was in your thesis that set that guy off to the degree you describe?
ALBOWIE
Joined: February 28, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 - 06:18 AM UTC
A very passionate debate (just) gents. How about we wait until this is published and been read before trashing it or attacking it. I do not share the view expressed within the books publicity blurb and disagree with the whole scandal premise however I would like to read it to see if anything supports that view or the author has unearthed any new information to support his views. A little bit of civility goes a long way
Al
Al
AUSTanker
Joined: September 04, 2013
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2016 - 08:42 PM UTC
"The primary reader of DeJohn's thesis, Dr. Jay Lockenour, was ready to sign off on it, but when DeJohn needed a secondary reader, Professor Gregory Urwin refused to approve it, DeJohn said. He said Lockenour apparently believed it would be resolved, and advised him to register to graduate in May 2005.
DeJohn even wrote to Temple’s president, David Adamany, seeking his help regarding the obstacles he was facing.
Subsequently, when asked under oath if he was aware of DeJohn’s dilemma, Adamany denied being aware of allegations about violations of academic freedoms.
DeJohn, also under oath, then produced copies of their communication.
Shortly thereafter, in a front page story in the Philadelphia Inquirer on Jan. 20, 2006, Adamany announced his resignation.
Temple University spokesman Ray Betzner insists that he “retired.”
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2008/08/73072/#LiqUJT4dKhFG6u2m.99
AUSTanker
Joined: September 04, 2013
KitMaker: 46 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2016 - 09:26 PM UTC
Thanks, Al, for bringing less heat and more light!
It's been an adventure- must be doing something right, because being attacked from all sides- I'm a disabled Bosnia veteran with an Uncle buried in Arlington who served at the Nuremberg War Crimes trials, but I'm being called "Pro-Fatherland" for taking a fresh look at some of the myths that have accumulated for decades.
Unless we are living in North Korea, no historical topic or question is "closed" or "settled-" as Patton wrote, "If EVERYONE agrees, NO ONE is thinking!"
Best, Christian M. DeJohn
It's been an adventure- must be doing something right, because being attacked from all sides- I'm a disabled Bosnia veteran with an Uncle buried in Arlington who served at the Nuremberg War Crimes trials, but I'm being called "Pro-Fatherland" for taking a fresh look at some of the myths that have accumulated for decades.
Unless we are living in North Korea, no historical topic or question is "closed" or "settled-" as Patton wrote, "If EVERYONE agrees, NO ONE is thinking!"
Best, Christian M. DeJohn
AUSTanker
Joined: September 04, 2013
KitMaker: 46 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2016 - 09:31 PM UTC
"The primary reader of DeJohn's thesis, Dr. Jay Lockenour, was ready to sign off on it, but when DeJohn needed a secondary reader, Professor Gregory Urwin refused to approve it, DeJohn said. He said Lockenour apparently believed it would be resolved, and advised him to register to graduate in May 2005.
DeJohn even wrote to Temple’s president, David Adamany, seeking his help regarding the obstacles he was facing.
Subsequently, when asked under oath if he was aware of DeJohn’s dilemma, Adamany denied being aware of allegations about violations of academic freedoms.
DeJohn, also under oath, then produced copies of their communication.
Shortly thereafter, in a front page story in the Philadelphia Inquirer on Jan. 20, 2006, Adamany announced his resignation.
Temple University spokesman Ray Betzner insists that he “retired.”
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2008/08/73072/#LiqUJT4dKhFG6u2m.99
DeJohn even wrote to Temple’s president, David Adamany, seeking his help regarding the obstacles he was facing.
Subsequently, when asked under oath if he was aware of DeJohn’s dilemma, Adamany denied being aware of allegations about violations of academic freedoms.
DeJohn, also under oath, then produced copies of their communication.
Shortly thereafter, in a front page story in the Philadelphia Inquirer on Jan. 20, 2006, Adamany announced his resignation.
Temple University spokesman Ray Betzner insists that he “retired.”
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2008/08/73072/#LiqUJT4dKhFG6u2m.99
AUSTanker
Joined: September 04, 2013
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2016 - 09:35 PM UTC
Greetings, GA:
As some have noted, I dared to (gasp) express conservative views on campus, after receiving invites to anti-war protests from lefty professors...while serving overseas with the US Army, in a hostile fire zone.
Funny thing was, the primary reader signed off on the thesis and had my apply to graduate, until the other prof stepped in.
Temple University actually argued in court that white males- as well as disabled Veterans- are not protected by the US Constitution.
Those who agree with this sort of PC (bull pucky) will probably not like this book!
As some have noted, I dared to (gasp) express conservative views on campus, after receiving invites to anti-war protests from lefty professors...while serving overseas with the US Army, in a hostile fire zone.
Funny thing was, the primary reader signed off on the thesis and had my apply to graduate, until the other prof stepped in.
Temple University actually argued in court that white males- as well as disabled Veterans- are not protected by the US Constitution.
Those who agree with this sort of PC (bull pucky) will probably not like this book!
AUSTanker
Joined: September 04, 2013
KitMaker: 46 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2016 - 09:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextImportant facts are lost just through the passage of time, and there will always be "experts" who will distort facts to suit their own agendas. The trick is to be able to discern the truth from the chaff, and that requires a lot of research, even in today's everyday environment...
Hear. Hear.
Incredible as it may seem, it also requires actually reading the book or books in question...
AUSTanker
Joined: September 04, 2013
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2016 - 10:05 PM UTC
Jeff, thanks for bringing more light and less heat!
Belton Cooper is just one of the 300-plus sources I use in the book.
Best, Christian
Belton Cooper is just one of the 300-plus sources I use in the book.
Best, Christian
AUSTanker
Joined: September 04, 2013
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2016 - 10:09 PM UTC
Quoted Text
You folks know what's really funny? I haven't seen anyone state that the thread starter is the author of the book. Wonder if he is Cooper fan?
Pat, Belton Cooper is one of my 300-plus sources used in the book. While we should take his limited perspective with a grain of salt, I also disagree with some who have argued that a veterans' personal experience and views (such as Cooper's) should be totally discounted.
Best,
Christian M. DeJohn
AUSTanker
Joined: September 04, 2013
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2016 - 10:12 PM UTC
So you are presuming the book ignores the Eastern Front??
AUSTanker
Joined: September 04, 2013
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2016 - 10:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextSneak preview VIDEO for the book is here- great vintage and new tank photos!!
http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Mark-DeJohn/e/B01DTSCSEK/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1
Erm, why are there so many pictures of M3 Lee in a preview for a book about the Sherman?
Incredible as it may seem, a book about US tanks in WWII might include...photos of US tanks, including the M3 Lee.
AUSTanker
Joined: September 04, 2013
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2016 - 10:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
And actually, that picture I referenced to, this one:
(only in pretty colorization) is of a Sturer Emil... On the Eastern Front... Whoever put this little preview together didn't do well enough amount of research when gathering pictures.
Mikey, the book discusses Allied and Axis tanks and AFVs, on the Eastern Front as well as the ETO.
Nowhere does it say, "Tigers and Panthers only- and only in the ETO."
PzDave
Joined: November 28, 2012
KitMaker: 319 posts
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Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2016 - 01:58 AM UTC
So who here would rather be in a Panther or a Tiger vs. being in a Sherman?
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
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Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2016 - 02:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextSneak preview VIDEO for the book is here- great vintage and new tank photos!!
http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Mark-DeJohn/e/B01DTSCSEK/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1
Erm, why are there so many pictures of M3 Lee in a preview for a book about the Sherman?
Incredible as it may seem, a book about US tanks in WWII might include...photos of US tanks, including the M3 Lee.
Except this book is focused on the M4 [specifically the supposed inferiority of the M3 75mm gun], so I don't understand why the Lee would appear as an more than a few mentions.
mkenny
Joined: April 24, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2016 - 06:09 PM UTC
Here is one he lost.
http://www.mspb.gov/netsearch/viewdocs.aspx?docnumber=286036&version=286378&application=ACROBAT
In the Temple case the court awarded De John an incredible $1 for his legal fees and no one (other than Schiffer) will touch his thesis with a barge pole.
http://www.mspb.gov/netsearch/viewdocs.aspx?docnumber=286036&version=286378&application=ACROBAT
In the Temple case the court awarded De John an incredible $1 for his legal fees and no one (other than Schiffer) will touch his thesis with a barge pole.
mkenny
Joined: April 24, 2005
KitMaker: 95 posts
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Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2016 - 06:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Except this book is focused on the M4 [specifically the supposed inferiority of the M3 75mm gun], so I don't understand why the Lee would appear as an more than a few mentions.
You should bear in mind the words of the only man to see the completed thesis. He described it as "agonizing" and that DeJohn must suffer from "Alzheimer’s disease." DeJohn sounds like a "crackpot," that his arguments are "absurd," that the thesis read like "a comic book for 5-year olds," that it was "amateurish," that it was "exaggerated melodrama," "juvenile melodrama," and "juvenile rhetoric," "monotonous agony," "juvenile argumentation," a "hissy fit in print."
Given what we have seen so far those comments are looking pretty accurate.
stufer
Joined: May 25, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2016 - 09:57 PM UTC
But what does he REALLY think???
saurkrautwerfer
Joined: March 28, 2016
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Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2016 - 10:07 PM UTC
Ignoring the Temple stuff without going too far a rabbithole:
This is an 80 dollar book. That's more than I would care to spend on much of anything individual item outside of a very nice model (and we're talking like, M1A2 SEP v2 with workable tracks, PE with jigs, decals for the specific tank I operated level very nice).
If the book was deeply informative and added something new to the debate then I could see getting excited about it. Turns out the author found stuck in the bottom of a drawer a document signed by Patton showing he was in allegiance with the Illumnati to do his part to insure the 75 MM was employed due to cabalistic math or something.
But right now it sounds like pretty much all the cards are on the table in terms of sources. And we've had some very informed people step in and write/speak on the topic. And it does not seem like there's something to justify an 80 dollar book.
We're not at the end of history, there's more Sherman books to be written and read, I'm just deeply unconvinced there's an 80 dollar book's worth of evidence for anything that could be described as a scandal.
This is an 80 dollar book. That's more than I would care to spend on much of anything individual item outside of a very nice model (and we're talking like, M1A2 SEP v2 with workable tracks, PE with jigs, decals for the specific tank I operated level very nice).
If the book was deeply informative and added something new to the debate then I could see getting excited about it. Turns out the author found stuck in the bottom of a drawer a document signed by Patton showing he was in allegiance with the Illumnati to do his part to insure the 75 MM was employed due to cabalistic math or something.
But right now it sounds like pretty much all the cards are on the table in terms of sources. And we've had some very informed people step in and write/speak on the topic. And it does not seem like there's something to justify an 80 dollar book.
We're not at the end of history, there's more Sherman books to be written and read, I'm just deeply unconvinced there's an 80 dollar book's worth of evidence for anything that could be described as a scandal.
DG0542
Joined: March 04, 2015
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 03:09 AM UTC
I agree Paul...and lot of the research The Chieftain supplied which directly referenced Ordnance and Armored Force Documents which shows that not much could be learned.
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 04:59 PM UTC
There is an expression heard that there is no such thing as bad publicity but to me the way the author has gone about promoting this book, first by referring to the author as if it's someone else, not replying to comments directly but just posting more promotional links, then to me anyway, pointless links to a court case hasn't done them any favours in promoting the book.
I'm sure those who have read the various posts, here and elsewhere that may have considered buying the book will probably hold back, given the cost as well, waiting for the time when the stock sitting gathering dust in a warehouse finally goes to the bargain bookstores for a few dollars.
A real lesson in how not to go about promoting a forthcoming release in my opinion.
I'm sure those who have read the various posts, here and elsewhere that may have considered buying the book will probably hold back, given the cost as well, waiting for the time when the stock sitting gathering dust in a warehouse finally goes to the bargain bookstores for a few dollars.
A real lesson in how not to go about promoting a forthcoming release in my opinion.
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 09:04 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm sure those who have read the various posts, here and elsewhere that may have considered buying the book will probably hold back, given the cost as well, waiting for the time when the stock sitting gathering dust in a warehouse finally goes to the bargain bookstores for a few dollars.
Edward R. Hamilton/www.HamiltonBook.com usually carries Schiffer's remaindered stock. What other remaindered book sellers do people use?
"Remaindered Books - Last stop before the shredder"
KL
AUSTanker
Joined: September 04, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 09:43 PM UTC
"While DeJohn was serving in Bosnia, he started getting anti-war e-mails, called “teach-ins” from Professor Richard Immerman, chairman of Temple’s history department. DeJohn responded with a request that the e-mails be stopped.
When he returned from active duty and tried to re-enroll in Temple as a graduate student, he was told he had been expelled because he had not asked permission to leave the university.
DeJohn produced copies of his written request, with copies of his orders to deploy. Temple officials then attributed the situation to “computer error.”
However, two professors whose classes he took, Gregory Urwin’s “Comparative History of Modern Warfare” and Immerman’s “American Diplomatic History,” included diatribes against the military and the Iraq war, he said.
During the course of those lectures, DeJohn expressed conservative opinions.
The primary reader of his thesis, Dr. Jay Lockenour, was ready to sign off on it but when DeJohn needed a secondary reader, Urwin refused to approve it.
Lockenour advised him to register to graduate in May 2005, but it didn’t happen.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2008/08/73072/#yeTxJTmYXeBXG1Ui.99
When he returned from active duty and tried to re-enroll in Temple as a graduate student, he was told he had been expelled because he had not asked permission to leave the university.
DeJohn produced copies of his written request, with copies of his orders to deploy. Temple officials then attributed the situation to “computer error.”
However, two professors whose classes he took, Gregory Urwin’s “Comparative History of Modern Warfare” and Immerman’s “American Diplomatic History,” included diatribes against the military and the Iraq war, he said.
During the course of those lectures, DeJohn expressed conservative opinions.
The primary reader of his thesis, Dr. Jay Lockenour, was ready to sign off on it but when DeJohn needed a secondary reader, Urwin refused to approve it.
Lockenour advised him to register to graduate in May 2005, but it didn’t happen.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2008/08/73072/#yeTxJTmYXeBXG1Ui.99
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