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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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M4 Sherman 1/35 Advice
SprueKiller2112
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 01:59 AM UTC
Hello all,
I'm thinking of building and painting an M4 Sherman (No Specific Variant) for my new project. What Sherman do you think would be best to make?

Criteria:
I do not own an airbrush
I have already built the Dragon M4A4 Sherman Orange Box
I'm looking for something Mid-Late War
I'm looking to really dirty it up

Many thanks
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 02:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello all,
I'm thinking of building and painting an M4 Sherman (No Specific Variant) for my new project. What Sherman do you think would be best to make?

Criteria:
I do not own an airbrush
I have already built the Dragon M4A4 Sherman Orange Box
I'm looking for something Mid-Late War
I'm looking to really dirty it up

Many thanks



Hi, Kurt! Welcome to our Community

You might give ASUKA's M4 VVSS (75mm) Late-production Sherman "FAY" a try, and if you don't own an airbrush, you could spray it with TAMIYA's TS-28 US Olive Drab in the spray can. The ASUKA Shermans are considered by many to be at the "Top of the HEAP", among Sherman kits. The ASUKA M4 "FAY" is a great representation of an M4 that that would have been seen just prior to, during and after the D-Day Invasion of France, in the early Summer of 1944- These 75mm-gunned M4s were seen in Northern Europe, i.e, France, Belgium, Luxemburg, Italy and finally, in Germany, right on up to and after VE Day, so this kit would cover your Mid-Late War criteria.

The kit represents an earlier-design M4, with the welded 56-degree Hull, but which has been "Up-dated" with Supplemental Armor on the Hull sides, in front of the "Drivers' Hoods" and with thicker Armor on the Right Front side of the Turret, which is sometimes referred to as "Cheek Armor". The Suspension is the VVSS-type, which is the Vertical Volute Spring Suspension. Fit and finish of ALL of the ASUKA Sherman kits are great favorites with modellers. It's a beautiful kit, and I'm sure that you'll be pleased with it.

Another recommendation I would make to represent a Late-War Sherman would be TAMIYA's M4A3E8 HVSS (76mm) "Easy-Eight" Sherman- It is a representation of the latest Sherman to see service during WWII. This kit features the later-production 47-degree "Big Hatch" Hull, the 76mm Gun with Muzzle Brake, with a newer re-designed Gun Mantlet, and the later T23 Turret. The Suspension is the superior HVSS-type, which featured better weight distribution and a much better "ride-quality" for the Crew. This Suspension also featured much wider Tracks, which enhanced the Sherman's "ground-floatation" on softer ground surfaces, such as mud, slush, and snow. "Easy-Eights" arrived in Europe late in the War, and they were also shipped to serve in the Pacific War, as well.

The TAMIYA "Easy-Eight" kit has gotten rave reviews from modellers, and it is a joy to assemble, just like the ASUKA Shermans, so you can't go wrong with this kit, either.

If you really like Shermans (I LOVE 'em!) then BOTH kits would make great additions to your collection.

ASUKA also makes a very nice later-design M4A3 VVSS (76mm) Sherman, which would fit your Mid-Late War criteria as well. This kit features the later 47-degree "Big Hatch" Hull, but with the earlier VVSS Suspension, and the T23 Turret with the re-designed Gun Mantlet, as seen on "Easy-Eights"...

You can't go wrong with this kit, either!!!

Hope this helps you in making your decision!

DutyFirst1917
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 03, 2016
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 02:48 AM UTC
Kurt,

There are a number of M4A3E8 (Easy Eight) kits on the market to pick from. The new Tamiya kit is particularly nice but the price can get a bit high unless you order from a retailer overseas. Some OD green paint and some weathering and the model will look great. There is an E8 on display near to where I work so if you need up close reference pictures let me know. Enjoy!

Tim
m4sherman
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 02:53 AM UTC
As M4A1 says, the Asuka M4 is a nice model. For a late war M4 there is the new Tamiya M4A3E8.
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 02:58 AM UTC
Tamiya has spraycans with 'scale' OD.

Your scope is wide, do you want to model a specific nationality?
Cantstopbuyingkits
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European Union
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 03:00 AM UTC
Try looking for Tasca's Fury Sherman kit, it includes their fantastic M4A3E8 parts with some plastic stowage and accessory parts.
parrot
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 03:07 AM UTC
Kurt,
I suggest the new Tamiya "easy eight".
Best kit ever produced.I sprayed mine with Tamiya olive drab from a can.
Late model Sherman.If you've seen Fury,thats what they're in.
You can check it out in the armor forum under Sherman easy eight.

Tom
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 04:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello all,
I'm thinking of building and painting an M4 Sherman (No Specific Variant) for my new project. What Sherman do you think would be best to make?

Criteria:
I do not own an airbrush
I have already built the Dragon M4A4 Sherman Orange Box
I'm looking for something Mid-Late War
I'm looking to really dirty it up

Many thanks



PS- You can also try some of the ASUKA British and Commonwealth Sherman types- I believe they also make a "Firefly", which as you probably already know, carried the excellent British 17pdr...
ALBOWIE
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New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 04:46 AM UTC
As you are a Canadian I would recommend getting the Tasca/Asuka SHerman III mid Production or the DV and doing it as one of the Canadian exmaples that fought in Normandy. OD finish with Stowage and dusty weathering typical of the late Normandy Cmapaign.
Al
corsair924
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New Hampshire, United States
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 05:31 AM UTC
Would the ASUKA "China Clipper" be a good match for an M4 with Aunt Jemima mine rollers??
SprueKiller2112
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 05:51 AM UTC
Trust me, I would absolutely LOVE doing an M4A3E8 and make it into Fury, but you need an airbrush to do the OD green and Black stripes along the hull correctly.
m4sherman
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 07:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Would the ASUKA "China Clipper" be a good match for an M4 with Aunt Jemima mine rollers??



These mine rollers were on the early welded hull M4 and the M4A1, remanufactured with applique armor and a gun travel lock. I looked around on Google and did not see any based on a late hull, or the Chine Clipper Composite hull M4.

Your best bet would be the Asuka M4A1.
easyco69
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 08:53 AM UTC
Canadian Firefly
AgentG
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Nevada, United States
Joined: December 21, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 02:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Trust me, I would absolutely LOVE doing an M4A3E8 and make it into Fury, but you need an airbrush to do the OD green and Black stripes along the hull correctly.



Actually, no. Get some Silly Putty and some masking tape. Use the Silly Putty for the borders of the black areas and cover the rest in tape. Tape over the OD from one putty stripe to the other.

Spray away in short light bursts.

G
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 04:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Trust me, I would absolutely LOVE doing an M4A3E8 and make it into Fury, but you need an airbrush to do the OD green and Black stripes along the hull correctly.



Actually, no. Get some Silly Putty and some masking tape. Use the Silly Putty for the borders of the black areas and cover the rest in tape. Tape over the OD from one putty stripe to the other.

Spray away in short light bursts.

G



CONCUR- THAT'S the way I would go about painting the OLIVE DRAB and BLACK camo-scheme with diffused edges if I DIDN'T have an airbrush. However, US Shermans in this camo-scheme were also seen with "hard" edges in this camo-scheme. Therefore, you'd be safe if you "brush-painted" the BLACK over the OD. Just make sure that your BLACK isn't too thick, and that you wait at least 24 hours in order for the OD to cure properly before you apply your BLACK. Personally, I would much rather SPRAY the BLACK on, rather than brush-paint it on.

Some have said that BROWN was also painted over OD, but I personally have never seen any color evidence of this, at least not in photos purported to have been taken in North-western Europe, so I can't recommend this particular color sceme. There is ALWAYS a possibility that this DID occur, however.

In the Pacific Theatre, multi-colored camo, similar to the later tri-color WWII German camo-schemes, were seen on certain vehicles, such as the various LVT-series Amphibians. As a matter of fact, there were USMC M5A1 Stuarts painted in overall DARK OD or DARK GREEN DRAB, over-painted with a broad RED-BROWN wavy-pattern, and a few much thinner SAND-colored stripes in a random pattern, seen at Roi Namur, in the Pacific Theatre, in 1944. I have plans of building one of these, right along...

Some trivia: Certain earlier USMC M4A2s and US NAVY LVTs in the Pacific Theatre were also painted in a BLUE-ish-GRAY, very similar to FS35189 Dark Blue-Gray. Later, M4A2s were painted in the "standard" OD. Early M4A2s were manufactured with the 56-degree Hull, and later models featured the improved 47-degree "Big Hatch" Hulls, if you should ever decide to build a Pacific-war Sherman...

I know for a fact that quite a few US Vehicles in the earlier African and Mediterranean Campaigns were over-sprayed in a wavy pattern of a SAND-YELLOW color over OLIVE DRAB, but this particular scheme would not be appropriate for your time-frame, or in North-western Europe, 1944-45...

Just a side note- There are several photos of US Maintenance Crews spray-painting the BLACK on an M5A1 Stuart, RIGHT OVER the dirt, stowage, sandbags, etc, WITHOUT having cleaned the vehicle up, or removing said stowage, sandbags, etc. Evidently, the camo was applied in a rush, in order to get this M5A1 back to it's Unit & Crew, ASAP- There is NO hard and fast rule that says that this practice never happened on Shermans, but neither did this happen all the time, so you can go both ways, and still be accurate.

NOTE: The OD & BLACK camo was seen on British/Commonwealth/Canadian Vehicles, as well as the British BRONZE GREEN & BLACK cloud-pattern, or "Mickey Mouse" camo-scheme, as it has been referred to sometimes.

Either way you go, (overall OD, OD & BLACK, for US Shermans, and the same for Canadian vehicles manufactured in the US, OR, BRONZE GREEN & BLACK, for British/Commonwealth & some Canadian Shermans and other vehicles), you'd still be well within the realm of possibilities, as far as US/Allied camo-schemes go, during the last eleven months of WWII in Europe...

BTW- Feel free to ask any one of us any questions that you may have, in relation to this project, or any subsequent models that you may want to build in future...
ericadeane
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Michigan, United States
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 04:55 PM UTC
Kurt: You've gotten lots of good advice here -- you see how much some of us are into building M4s. However, I think the biggest variable here is how comfortable do you feel in building complex kits? Some of the suggestions here (like the fantastic Asuka/Tasca Shermans) are for the advanced modeler and can be frustrating for the novice or even intermediate modeler. Where do you see yourself?

Dennis: I've heard the idea of "early M4A2s" being painted in Navy colors but I believe it's a myth. Firstly, all tanks would have left the factory in OD. To get what you're proposing, a Marine officer would have had to purposefully obtain Navy paint (that isn't conducive for land warfare, BTW) and then order his crews to paint perfectly usable OD tanks with this grey color. I find that incredulous. Can you point us to evidence to the contrary? I'm not saying it's impossible (I've seen wartime grey-blue painted DUKWs) but a bold claim, seemingly without logic, requires bold evidence.
Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 04:58 PM UTC
I agree, let's see an actual picture of a Sherman painted in that knd of colour.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 05:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Kurt: You've gotten lots of good advice here -- you see how much some of us are into building M4s. However, I think the biggest variable here is how comfortable do you feel in building complex kits? Some of the suggestions here (like the fantastic Asuka/Tasca Shermans) are for the advanced modeler and can be frustrating for the novice or even intermediate modeler. Where do you see yourself?

Dennis: I've heard the idea of "early M4A2s" being painted in Navy colors but I believe it's a myth. Firstly, all tanks would have left the factory in OD. To get what you're proposing, a Marine officer would have had to purposefully obtain Navy paint (that isn't conducive for land warfare, BTW) and then order his crews to paint perfectly usable OD tanks with this grey color. I find that incredulous. Can you point us to evidence to the contrary? I'm not saying it's impossible (I've seen wartime grey-blue painted DUKWs) but a bold claim, seemingly without logic, requires bold evidence.



Hi, Roy!

I'm certainly NOT going to dispute your logic, but I have the "AMERICAN HERITAGE History of World War II" book, and in it, there is a crystal-clear color photo, which shows a destroyed early USMC M4A2, (I'm assuming it's a Marine Tank, because I can't see ANY reason why the US Army would have ever painted IT'S Shermans Gray), in shallow ocean saltwater, beginning to rapidly deteriorate with rust, and indeed, it IS painted in the BLUE-ish GRAY that I mentioned. This particular vehicle, and possibly others in this Unit COULD be an anomaly, and I'm not color-blind. I DON'T make claims, "seemingly WITHOUT logic", so I kind of resent the derision... (emphasis, mine)

However, as I mentioned in my earlier post, the various early LVTs, including the LVT(A)-1 "Alligator" Amtank, with it's slightly modified M5A1 "Stuart-styled" turret and M3 37mm Main Gun, were also painted in this color, and later on, in OD, as were other models of LVTs. So, I don't think that it's totally out of the realm of possibility that some enterprising US Marine Officer MAY have ordered "his" possibly "derelict-looking" M4A2s to be repainted with paint appropriated out of US NAVY stocks. I've often wondered about this myself, because I'm perfectly aware that US M4-series Tanks DID leave their various factories-of-origin in my beloved OLIVE DRAB- And THAT'S EXACTLY why I'm not disputing you...

Your comments, as always, are very welcome!
Fletcher445
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 05:36 PM UTC
Personally, I would go with the Tamiya Easy Eight if I were you. It is a great late war tank and Tamiya kits are really easy to build.

When it comes to "really dirty it up" you can easily go to far, especially on American armor. Remember, American armor would not have been in war service nearly as long as some German armor, therefore would not have accumulated long term wear and damage. The Americans also did a better job at maintenance than the Germans and Russians, so the American armor would again show less wear and damage. And finally the most obvious would be IT'S A SHERMAN, many of them didn't last long enough to really get worn out. Of course, there are always exceptions.

Have fun no matter what you choose and remember to show us.
phantom8747
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 05:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Try looking for Tasca's Fury Sherman kit, it includes their fantastic M4A3E8 parts with some plastic stowage and accessory parts.



That kit is supposed to be reissued soon.
phantom8747
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 05:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Personally, I would go with the Tamiya Easy Eight if I were you. It is a great late war tank and Tamiya kits are really easy to build.

When it comes to "really dirty it up" you can easily go to far, especially on American armor. Remember, American armor would not have been in war service nearly as long as some German armor, therefore would not have accumulated long term wear and damage. The Americans also did a better job at maintenance than the Germans and Russians, so the American armor would again show less wear and damage. And finally the most obvious would be IT'S A SHERMAN, many of them didn't last long enough to really get worn out. Of course, there are always exceptions.

Have fun no matter what you choose and remember to show us.



Yes a very good kit.All grab handles are molded on so they would have be scraped off and replaced.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 05:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Personally, I would go with the Tamiya Easy Eight if I were you. It is a great late war tank and Tamiya kits are really easy to build.

When it comes to "really dirty it up" you can easily go to far, especially on American armor. Remember, American armor would not have been in war service nearly as long as some German armor, therefore would not have accumulated long term wear and damage. The Americans also did a better job at maintenance than the Germans and Russians, so the American armor would again show less wear and damage. And finally the most obvious would be IT'S A SHERMAN, many of them didn't last long enough to really get worn out. Of course, there are always exceptions.

Have fun no matter what you choose and remember to show us.



Kurt DID mention in his opening post that he wanted to build a "MID-Late" M4-series Tank, so ASUKA's M4 Late-production "FAY" would STILL qualify within his criteria. Specifically, the "Easy-Eight" is NOT a "MID-war" Tank, but it is an excellent example of a "LATE-war" Sherman. TAMIYA certainly has my vote for a model of the M4A3E8, Autumn, 1944-Spring, 1945. But, let's not forget that earlier types of the US and British/Commonwealth and Canadian Shermans served well past May of 1945 in Europe...

Also, SQUADRON's book, "SHERMAN in action", on page 3, clearly shows a very early M4 VVSS (75mm) SHERMAN, with the 56-degree hull, the 3-piece, bolted Transmission Case and Direct Vision Slots, of the 752nd Tank Battalion, attached to the Fifth Army, in the Plaza Emmanuel, Bologna, Italy, on 21 April, 1945. While it is true that "many of them didn't last long enough to really get worn out", MANY OF THEM, in fact, DID!!!

You CERTAINLY CAN'T say THAT about your vaunted Panthers and Tigers... In fact, it IS a well-known FACT, that US-built Shermans, and indeed, ALL US-made equipment had a much better record of reliability, ease of maintenance, and TOTAL survivability, (check the stats), than anything else on planet at the time...

Of course, as everyone in this thread says, the choice of which kit that Kurt will ultimately choose for his project, is absolutely Kurt's own. I wouldn't push him to specifically buy any one of the excellent kits that we all mentioned, because they ALL provide an excellent basis for the project that he has in mind...
m4sherman
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 06:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Kurt: You've gotten lots of good advice here -- you see how much some of us are into building M4s. However, I think the biggest variable here is how comfortable do you feel in building complex kits? Some of the suggestions here (like the fantastic Asuka/Tasca Shermans) are for the advanced modeler and can be frustrating for the novice or even intermediate modeler. Where do you see yourself?

Dennis: I've heard the idea of "early M4A2s" being painted in Navy colors but I believe it's a myth. Firstly, all tanks would have left the factory in OD. To get what you're proposing, a Marine officer would have had to purposefully obtain Navy paint (that isn't conducive for land warfare, BTW) and then order his crews to paint perfectly usable OD tanks with this grey color. I find that incredulous. Can you point us to evidence to the contrary? I'm not saying it's impossible (I've seen wartime grey-blue painted DUKWs) but a bold claim, seemingly without logic, requires bold evidence.



Hi, Roy!

I'm certainly NOT going to dispute your logic, but I have the "AMERICAN HERITAGE History of World War II" book, and in it, there is a crystal-clear color photo, which shows a destroyed early USMC (I'm assuming) M4A2, in shallow ocean saltwater, beginning to rapidly deteriorate with rust, and indeed, it IS painted in the BLUE-ish GRAY that I mentioned. This particular vehicle, and possibly others in this Unit COULD be an anomaly, and I'm not color-blind.

However, as I mentioned in my earlier post, the various early LVTs, including the LVT(A)-1 "Alligator" Amtank, with it's slightly modified M5A1 "Stuart-styled" turret and M3 37mm Main Gun, were also painted in this color, and later on, in OD, as were other models of LVTs. So, I don't think that it's totally out of the realm of possibility that some enterprising US Marine Officer MAY have ordered "his" possibly "derelict-looking" M4A2s to be repainted with paint appropriated out of US NAVY stocks. I've often wondered about this myself, because I'm perfectly aware that US M4-series Tanks DID leave their various factories-of-origin in my beloved OLIVE DRAB- And THAT'S EXACTLY why I'm not disputing you...

Your comments, as always, are very welcome!



Dennis, does it say where the picture was taken? Early 'A2's in service since Tarawa might have been repainted for Saipan using what was easy to get. I have painted my WWII stuff with modern repo WWII OD and some of that paint will fade to a blue green color that looks gray-ish in bright light. Early color film wasn't the best either. With M4's, you never know.
ericadeane
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 06:03 PM UTC
Dennis: Plz let me apologize for my tone. I should have added:"If you can bring up the photos, that's BE1 100% great!" Because like you, I love seeing oddball stuff on Shermans. I'll look to get a view on that picture you've mentioned. Thnx
Fletcher445
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Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 06:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Personally, I would go with the Tamiya Easy Eight if I were you. It is a great late war tank and Tamiya kits are really easy to build.

When it comes to "really dirty it up" you can easily go to far, especially on American armor. Remember, American armor would not have been in war service nearly as long as some German armor, therefore would not have accumulated long term wear and damage. The Americans also did a better job at maintenance than the Germans and Russians, so the American armor would again show less wear and damage. And finally the most obvious would be IT'S A SHERMAN, many of them didn't last long enough to really get worn out. Of course, there are always exceptions.

Have fun no matter what you choose and remember to show us.



Kurt DID mention in his opening post that he wanted to build a "MID-Late" M4-series Tank, so ASUKA's M4 Late-production "FAY" would STILL qualify within his criteria...

Of course, as everyone says, the choice is absolutely Kurt's own...



DID you read somewhere that I said the Asuka DIDN'T meet his criteria?
 _GOTOTOP