Hi Everybody;

Its only natural that we all want more Bang for our Bucks, and I myself would most likely purchase A more Accurate Trumpy, T-72 over Tamiya's T-72 these days. The technology has improved so fast & accurate in Computer Design that its scary when you look back at kit's made in the 70s & 80s and even early 90s period. Every kit maker has there Dogs in there line, Even Tamiya with there T-62 was Terrible, Over scale, lack of detail, and Thick plastic and I won't even talk about the tracks,
I see nothing wrong with DMLs line of this type of kit !!!! And its been all Said Before !! Don't like It !--Then Don't Buy It !!!! Were Never going to Satisfy the Techno Geek's & Rivet Counter's !!!! They Will always Find something to Gripe About !!

CHEERS; MIKE.

[quote]Every kit maker has there Dogs in there line, Even Tamiya with there T-62 was Terrible, Over scale, lack of detail, and Thick plastic and I won't even talk about the tracks,

I repainted my tamiya T62 a little while ago. It seems I unconsciously added to the inaccuracy by painting it olive drab, with a brown and sand Camouflage.

As a draftsmen in my day job I do want to chime in here on CAD/CAM. They are great systems, but they are just machines, and really dependent on the old saying GIGO (Garbage in Garbage Out). Its not a silver bullet, yes between 3D Modeling and highly accurate CNC machines (0.0000000001 accuracy) in theory you can produce a perfect kit. But it is also reliant on the people who do the modeling, and get the measurements. Also using Blue Prints aren't always accurate as they might be out of date, or not even build prints. Most vehicles probably don't even have accurate "As Built" Blue Prints, if they even exist. So maybe we need to take a step back and breath.

Yeah, I got significantly taken for a ride with that marketing ploy - was bad enough buying them at retail but I was that sucker who then doubled down and also paid ebay prices for these supposed rare kits - only to later see them re-issued as regular kits and freely available. Still particularly sore about the 4 Opel Blitz's I accumulated - will be the final straw if they also reissue the low-sided version.

Anyway, won't fall for that one again ...

As a very wise technician told me as he reached out from inside a computer:

"Remember two thirds of all problems are operator error."

And this can happen at any point along the way from the guy measuring the original for the model, the guy translating those numbers and complex shapes into a mold, and so on all the way down to the guy at the workbench trying the assemble the kit he just got from his local hobby shop. It's a long and complex process where so many things can go wrong.

But remember if you couldn't do something but somehow someone else made it work with all other things being equal? It was you. Own your mistake and learn from it.

Wouldn't it be nice for Dragon to own their mistake and admit they messed up with Black Label and somehow retool and fix the abortions they've done? Imagine a new Special Edition Smart Kit of the M103 comes out with an all new re-tooled hull and turret.

How many times did Dragon re-do their Nashorn and Sherman VC? There was at least one complete new re-tool in there. But they tried again and eventually got it right. Or at least reasonably close.

But someone, somewhere isn't learning the lesson this time around.



But I learned my lesson. I won't buy one and if I do, I'll bite my tongue and build it out of the box just to have it and not complain. (like how I've done two Academy Sheridan kits. I built them as is and I just don't compare them to any pictures or plans of the real thing)

If I may chime in again. After reading through the thread it seem to me that much of what we complain about boils down to why/how we build. Using myself as an example, I build mostly OOB. I say mostly since I will take the time to fix minor errors that don't require major surgery or to add AM detail parts to give the kit that little bit extra(mostly AM tracks, barrels, sometimes resin upgrades, etc.) As for accuracy eh, if it looks good and reasonably close to the real thing I'm satisfied. I am not overly concerned if this or that angle is off or if this or that plate is missing x number of bolts. Having gown up with the hobby in the 60's-70's just having a kit was a thrill and accuracy be damned. Likewise with fit issues. Granted that given the price of todays kits I do get a bit miffed when there are gaps to remedy but then again so did the kits of the 70's that I cut my teeth on and $7.00 seemed like a king's ransom to a 14 year old kid. On the other hand, there are those of you out there who are much more concerned about the degree of accuracy and the fidelity of the fit. I marvel at the degree of time and detail you put into your builds. But quite honestly, except for the fact that I can see things being done as you post them on this site or you explain what you have done when I talk to you at shows, I probably wouldn't even notice. I wager that the vast majority of modelers, even those who consider themselves accomplished and serious about the hobby fall closer to my approach than to the "rivet counter" approach. Not saying that one is better than the other or more dedicated than the other but, how and why we build has much to do with our level of expectation and how we choose to buy kits.

Some further thoughts prompted by Armorsmiths post above.
As with most things it is a matter of severity. A few missing bolts or minor inaccuracies is one thing and having to cut apart the whole hull and perform major transplantations to fix the faults is another matter.
Fixing small faults could be seen as a way of "personalising" the model, make something different et.c. Large scale "plastic surgery" is just a waste of time for most of us. I have a lot of respect for those who manage to pull it off but my time is too limited and there are too many other kits to build in the meantime so I can wait for a better M103, M6 or most of the other Black Label kits.

As for the original question: No, Black Label is not hurting the hobby.
and my wallet will not be hurt either

Today there are plenty of reviews and expert comments all over the internet so a reasonably cautious customer can make a buy/no-buy decision based on facts. If you want a Black Label kit and are willing to spend time, money and work on fixing it then so be it.

/ Robin

You're not alone, Jay. I did the same as well. When the Blitz was reissued as a 2-in-1 with the flak option, I dumped my White Box editions on eBay.