I think you’re almost certainly right about vinyl being the culprit Dave, although I’d say it’s in the Evergreen which is presumably what gives it the very valuable property of flexibility. Looking back at how I tightly wound a thin rod round the headlight boss, it never threatened to snap on me but I could only glue a half-circle at a time (with the Tamiya extra thin) partly because of the tendency to unflex, but also because it didn’t/couldn’t meld with the grey plastic around it…I guess it’s a minor miracle it has stayed put.

No vinyl in Evergreen, it's pure polystyrene. However, I've noticed Miniart plastic is smooth and slick like Evergreen, and both have the potential to pick up oils rather quickly, usually from fingertips and handling. That may be a more likely problem. When Evergreen was based here locally a few years ago, I had the lucky opportunity to tour their distribution and manufacturing hub. They had some wonderful architectural models there they liked to show off, but they all wore gloves in the packaging and handling process-- for that reason.

Usually, I've found my CA worries (glue not sticking when I want it to) are caused by the surface tension issues in the surface. sometimes this has to do with the properties of the material itself-- Evergreen is slick and smooth, and CA sometimes just puddles up on it until evaporating. Same with Miniart, plastic, although I suspect that's a mold release agent at work. Best bet for a sure bond is to lightly scuff the surface with a sanding stick where you can. CA sticks to your skin because of that exact feature-- your hands and fingertips may feel smooth at times, but in truth your skin consists of millions of tiny ridges and valleys (as in finger prints) which are the ideal collectors of minute "puddles" of instantaneously drying CA assisted in instantaneous curing by your own body heat. That's why we modelers can get tiny parts easily stuck to our fingers, but not to each other!
VR, Russ

Thanks Russ you’ve exposed my rookie error of failing to wash the kit sprues – and Evergreen – in warm water with mild detergent & soft brush! I always give main & sub-assemblies a bath before priming/painting but it’s never occurred to me to do it before building. Duh.The mo*ld release agents could well be interfering with glue(s) so I’ll try that theory out.

On a point of chemistry – you said Evergreen was pure polystyrene but their packaging actually says “Styrene” strips & sheets - Polystyrene and Styrene are quite different animals…

https://www.chemicalsafetyfacts.org/chemistry-context/makes-polystyrene-different-styrene-matter-chemistry/

…although that link confuses more than clarifies because Evergreen does appear to be a form of (polymerized) plastic rather than synthetic styrene. Anyhow a trawl of the interweb seems to point to Testors liquid cement (probably similar to the Tamiya version I’m using) or its main component, neat MEK (methyl-ethyl ketone) which is one step down from Nerve-Agent, they both use the solvent/melt method and reputedly work the same for Evergreen & kit plastics.

I’m still mystified about cyano/CA – I thought it cured in contact with water-vapo*r i.e. sweat on fingers or blowing onto it…as Jerry said the former works every time but I’ve had variable results with the latter. Maybe the most obvious answer is I’m just using crap-quality cyano

Tim,
As far as I know, CA cures under water vapor, at least that's what I understand. It is used in underwater and medical applications. When I blow on it, I'm introducing some water vapor to be sure, but that works only where the glue is puddling, if it's moved out of the area by foreign material such as oil, or an incredibly smooth surface, like glass (or polystyrene) it won't bond there. I have heard of folks blowing on the surface before applying CA, but I think you risk pre-mature curing. It does cure in the presence of water vapor, but does so unevenly in excessive water vapor from my experience, since water has a tendency to push the glue around before it hardens. Accelerators work very well in creating heat which moves other materials away. I apply an accelerator with a fine needle, allowing a "controlled" amount of curing (temperatures can reach as high as 300 degrees F!). I'm not sure of the chemical makeup of accelerators, but they have an oily feel, and contains no water as far as I know, but do have a hydrocarbon based makeup. I have a funny story about CA and accelerator heating. I occasionaly use CA to seal up small wounds or cracks in my fingers (CA is used in surgery for wound sealing). I worked in a hobby shop with a guy who sustained a large finger cut while packing boxes for shipping. Knowing that CA is used in surgery, he squireted some into his wound, but decided to speed the process by introducing accelerator (not recommended because accelerator is toxic). The heat generated definitely cured the CA, but it also gave him a 3rd degree burn on top of his finger slice!!
You might try some accelerator to assist your process, but I recommend also slightly roughing the surfaces to be joined, which give the CA something to "bite". Accelerators come in spray bottles, but you can decant them if necessary-- a little accelerator will go a long way.
VR, Russ

OK Russ tests on washed Evergreen/kit parts suggest release-residue may be part of the problem. I glued scrap strips together of each combination with both CA & extra-thin & after 24 hours & they all seemed to put up a little more resistance to falling apart so many thanks for the suggestion. As for CA in the First Aid kit I’m not sure I could bring myself to use it on a knife wound somehow…maybe masking tape?

Employing the new hygenic-construction method, work has progressed on the heavily revised outer roof starting with the inside…



The kit lights comprised two candelabra-clusters of three lampshades, but Prague trams were like so…



…so I cut off the shades and (oddly just like the headlight boss) found that turning them upside down provided a reasonable match. If only this had been a night-time hit, it would look so cool with LEDs in there. Cosmetic ceiling panels (0.13mm) hid the mess beneath but the other interior features (handrails & various suspended fitments) have to wait until the outside’s completed, resuming with…





Extra strips were needed to tidy up some blemishes on the upper level & provide a more positive edge for the panels on the lower level, which also needed better support/contact points with more strips, and even then I had to deploy a complex array of hi-tech equipment to hold it all in place while it cured…



Getting there…





Some more sanding to do on the edges & then the fittings on the lower level such as the tram # signs. I’m still mulling over the power-pole housing, the kit’s looks nothing like Prague’s – not that I’ve got any detailed images of it, but for the dio it’s going to be barely visible from ground level anyway so I’m inclined to approximate it. As long as it has the same appearance as in the German reconstruction images there seems little point in doing anything more.

It's becoming clear that keeping a detachable roof assembly is problematic because there are some connecting details that can’t be fitted unless it’s all glued down. However this first attempt at a driver-tram was always supposed to be the experimental one and so – unless I screw up the second driver tram – it won’t be seen close up in any photos & I won’t need to get back into its interior. As you might have noticed I try to keep all options open until impossible, so one compromise might be to lightly glue this roof down with Elmers/PVA until I can prove I’ve learned all the lessons for the upcoming driver tram.

Tim,
It just occurred to me (duh...oh) why are you glueing Evergreen with CA? Evergreen should be glues with styrene cement, like Tamiya, Tenax, Pro-weld, Flexifile, Testor's, etc.
VR, Russ

Often if you use a solvent type cement on thin Evergreen strips that are curved, they will just snap. They more tension they are under the more likely it is to happen.

Hi Russ & Robert

To clarify – before the joys of pre-washing my bonding experiences were as follows (KP = MiniArt kit plastic, EV = Evergreen, CA = cyano, TL = Tamiya Limonene extra-thin. A = firm bond, D = can be pulled/prised apart, F = liable to disintegrate under gentle handling):

KP – TL - KP = A
EV – TL - EV = A or D depending on parts-shapes & bonding area
KP – TL – EV = D or F depending etc
KP – CA – KP = A or D depending etc
EV – CA – EV = D or F depending etc
KP – CA – EV = D or F depending etc

…and after pre-washing, so far I’d revise the above by deleting the F’s.

As for stress/snapping, maybe there’s another variable – as mentioned the headlight boss using TL to wind/glue small-diameter EV rod round & round worked fine, but if bending a strip with edges/flat sides it’s more likely to fail. I’ve also had the experience when trying to use TL or similar to soften up a strip of EV, only to find it weakens it too much & fails. However in the 3rd & 4th photos of yesterday’s post you can see I bent that rectangular-section strip right round the tight corner of the roofline (using TL to just cement it, not soften it) without any (visible) cracking, which was a pleasant surprise because I hadn’t even heated it up (to pre-bend it) prior to gluing it on.

Tim, I'm wondering why you are using Limonene cement-- in my experience Limonene does not have the bonding ability of the Tamiya extra thin-- it is a safer and slower alternative though-- perhaps that's why. Also, when making a large bend in Evergreen, I like to score the back at small intervals to help with the bend. You can also buy Evergreen in siding and roofing packs, which are already grooved at small intervals (primarily used by model railroaders for building structures. These siding sheets can be cut into strips with a sharp blad and steel rule-- they might be perfect for making those bends and curves.
VR, Russ

Russ – I use CA when TL can’t handle a small bonding area, and/or can’t handle the subsequent handling, for example the small vertical window frames in the upper roof. There were 10 each side & even after cementing a few at a time and doing more several hours later, the inevitable flexing of the roof assembly during handling weakened the bonds (less than a square millimeter top & bottom)) & some would detach at one end or fall out altogether. Using a thicker styrene glue wasn’t an option as it tends to “blob” (whenever I use it anyway) so CA was a last resort. It’s not ideal but they stopped dropping out.

I prefer TL over standard extra-thin even though its virtue can also be its vice – it leaves no trace…but that’s because it doesn’t melt as much to make the bond…so the bond is indeed slightly weaker as you say. It only becomes problematic though when bonding un-alike plastics, it seems

Hi Tim - for what it’s worth, I use lots of evergreen, and have had good luck using Testors glue in a jar 3502XT....have the bottle right here!

To the points made above, I use a variety of glue and pre gluing steps. If I want to make and glue curved evergreen sheets or sticks, I roll (bend/curve) the material over an xacto knife handle or larger piece of strong tube for a larger radius, or a rat tail file or small brass tubing for, yes, smaller bends (haha - obvious enough I guess!) - every now and then I overdo it and it snaps - but it usually works fine.

For butt joints onto either other evergreen or other model kit parts, I sometimes pre glue (??...put some glue on the part - let’s it set the part a bit) the evergreen then stick it on.

As for CA, I use Bob Smith Industries Super Gold+ medium (i get the odorless) and use a fine tube extension on the bottle - and it usually works fine for all sorts of stuff - lead foil, etch, kit parts, resin parts, and evergreen - I even use it for clear parts without clouds or cracks -

Every once in a long while it (CA) doesn’t stick - but, if I’m honest, it’s usually my own fault - ie: poorly shaped part, awkward connecting point, part too short and so on. I recently needed to attach evergreen to a plastic model (that I cut the heck out of) that was made of a material slightly different (hard!!) plastic than what you typically find in kits - the Testors simply wouldn’t set, so, I used the CA.

Take a look in the Scratchbuild Campaign - you’ll see a few of my builds using these products. I don’t know what my fellow scratchers are using! Maybe you could post the question there too - Angel is doing some unbelievable work with lots of different materials - I might ask him myself!

I know you’re very skilled as builder!! - these are just some experiences that you might find helpful - hopefully of some use!

Happy building!
Nick

Thanks Nick

Yes pre-bending EV’s essential & I’d imagine those of us who practice the art know that you need to over-bend it, because by the time you’re ready with the cement, tweezers & whatever the piece has already unwound somewhat…and yes that’s sometimes about the point it snaps - but I haven’t tried the pre-glue tip so thanks for that.

Talking of clear parts I forgot to mention that Tamiya Limonene was sold to me (yes in a real hobby store, a few still exist Down Under) as specifically manufactured for cockpits, window glass etc because it’s pretty much undetectable (& stronger than PVA) – that was a year or more ago when I was doing the dio with the JU87 tank-buster & I found it seemed to work just as well for general purpose too…but because I’m not actually using it for its original purpose I only have myself to blame when it fails. The fact is I should probably go back to standard Tamiya extra-thin, it never let me down.

As for CA it’s a sticky mess wading thru/ignoring sponsored/brand-backed surveys while trying to get plain facts on the best CA for different plastics but even so this is interesting;

https://www.swiftsupplies.com.au/blog/news-and-blog/our-best-super-glues-for-plastic-part-2-choosing-super-glue-different-types-plastic/

Hi Tim,
You’re making serious progress with this.🤩 Now don’t get BENT!!!🤖

Cheers!🍺
—mike

Hey Mike OK no Sleep-Bending & I see why you went there rather than other Utube options

Going stir-crazy trying to get this tram off the workbench, the long list’s nearing the end with some more detailing inside & out plus running repairs and then it’ll be parked awaiting completion/construction of the other driver & trailer trams, before some serious sweat in the paint shop.

Anticipating the need for freedom of movement in the diorama, I spent some time in the spares boxes for components to make the power unit swivel thru both axes (axis plural), it approximates to all the blurry distant images of it I could get - H.P. please don’t find any close-ups or I’ll probably be embarrassed but if you do, I can always claim this was a prototype that never went into full production…









Taking a break from scratch-building the roof extras I dug out the figures sprues, looks like the MiniArt designer had a sense of humo*r after all…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf0oXY4nDxE

Thoroughly impressive work on the tram car! Even more impressive is you bothering to use the correct tense of "axis".
Always nice to see someone battling the shrinking of the language.
J

Here, here, professor! 🧐

Thanks guys, I thought it best to define that word mainly for lurkers who didn’t have the luxury of English as a first language, otherwise it would translate like I’d diverted to the lumberyard.
As for the Rocky Horror Picture Show extra, I only hope the other female civilians are more convincing…as women

Ah well, it seems my attempt to reach out to the legion of cross-dressing lurkers has been rebuffed so let’s tip-toe away. Disturbing news about yesterday’s tram derailment in Lisbon:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/15/dozens-injured-in-lisbon-tram-crash

& miraculous there were no serious injuries looking at the wreckage, I’d like to think my passengers would fare as well if this tram fell off the workbench.

Staggering my way to completion of Tram 1 & making many notes about how not to do the conversion & fulfilling revised deadline # 43/D/a/iv to park this in the paint shop before Xmas Day & take a break before resuming Tram 2 in January. Since last time I’ve tweaked the doors to fit properly & finished the interior (lacking a few minor details because they’ll never be seen) but the chassis, body, roof, doors & all window frames will remain unglued until I’m sure they don’t need to be. This overhead cab fixture was just a sprue too far so…



I tested Humbrol Satin white on the compartment ceiling because it has a slight off-white tinge, I didn’t want it looking like a toothpaste ad…



…and further tested it on the roof…





…which needs serious weathering/dirtying but that’ll wait until I can do all 3 trams together. All external woodwork is still white undercoat until I’m content the satin’s right – ok I admit I also chose it because I don’t think flat or gloss would look right…





Missing external details now include rear view mirrors, windscreen wipers, destination boards and route #s – I’ll scratch-build those for all 3 trams together. The pairs of handrails flanking each door are ready but can’t go on until painting’s complete – I really wanted them in brass but it looks like they were always steel.

Of course I needed a Driver aboard to get it to the paint shop although he looks like he shoulda gone to Specsavers…





Veselé Vánoce everyone

Beautiful construction Tim !!!
You look to be in the home stretch now and I know you'll ace the rest going forward .
I must say though through no fault of your own that the trench coat stocking figure appears to have a face that could stop bird poop in mid air .

This spectacular build is going on at such a fast pace. No clue how you manage that, but I envy you👍🏻. It is such a pleasure reading through your updates all the time.
The new additions you created and scratched are stunning like all the previous ones.
/Stefan

Nice to see an update as always. Looks like I will have to let it last through Christmas though,if I read your message correctly. I hope you and yours have a great Season!
J

Very convincing wood effect.

Thanks guys & compliments of the season to you & yours too. Cheyenne - you need to warn me when you launch one of your zingers, I nearly choked on my catering-sized tequila diablo rojo. Stef – one word: Retirement yeaaahhh baby ok 3. Jerry – well maybe not, if the weather improves (it’s supposed to be the beginning of summer) I might take some daylight shots & risk giving Robert just cause to retract his kind words

My word, Tim, this is really quite amazing.

As I think I've said before, you have way more talent, patience and commitment than me.

I do particularly like the dark wood interior parts :-)

Cheers

Sean

Your too kind Sean, thanks although I mostly see only the shortcomings & I’m sure others see them too - for a perfectionist the results are invariably disappointing to some degree so it comes down to when enough is good enough. I guess we usually rate talent against whether we could do the same or better…in this case it’s just that nobody else has been dumb enough to attempt converting a perfectly good tram kit so I’m way out in front. But then I’ve also cornered myself into trying to prove this is a crappy effort compared to the next one! Anyhow I’d bet the house you can do/make stuff way beyond my capabilities, vive la difference