Hi Tim,

Outstanding work, you must have the patience of a saint, . I wouldn't have the courage...nor the skill, ...to produce work like yours.

I look forward to following this build further.

Keep up the excellent work.

Cheers, .

G

Thanks Gareth I guess patience is another word for this, insane being the other. Bod yn gyfaill dewr, y cyfan sy'n rhaid i ni ei ofni ydy'r awyr yn disgyn ar ein pennau! (PS guessing by your name/avatar, give my regards to Lisvane (Cardiff) if you’re nearby – '68 to '74 when I lived there it was a nice village & countryside before the M4 ruined it - that’s the freeway, not the tank)

HP – well I dunno…



…I’d previously thought the dark curve within the blue circle was actually delineating a white-ish reflection extending into/onto the next window under the yellow line. On closer inspection though, it looks like the dark curve of an arching brace carrying round just above the pale area, which isn’t a reflection but surely the white ceiling going down the compartment. It’s hardly a bulkhead but I’d expect some kind of support there. However, it’s still ambiguous because the dark “dashes” which seem to follow that perspective down the compartment are superimposed on top of the bracing frame. It gets worse - what are those two diagonal wooden supports to the right of the blue circle, are they inside (if so I’ve never seen anything like them elsewhere) or another reflection?

There’s an overwhelming argument that says if we can’t make anything out distinctly after staring at dozens of photos, who’s going to notice or care if my trailer doesn’t have anything there? And yet…

Update delayed to tomorrow or Sunday, my Ordeal by Small Arched Window Frames (18 of them) ain’t over yet

Just found more views of #624 with less (?) reflections



Full size

and a LARGE one :

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8XX6PDlr4s1cfZQqs4m7BiGsxAAl2iTzDbAI4u22rVnOvgLCSdQ

(from this Flickr album )

H.P.

Great bunch of images in that album HP many thanks, as for 624 I’m not much wiser although removal of the tram on its port side seems to have made those very real-looking diagonal supports vanish. Hall of mirrors?

Meanwhile 16 door panels, 10 detachable arched cab window frames and 48 horizontal bars later…







Open-topped doors so that the glass can be slid in after painting…



Arch on this one needs mo’ work & the doors aren’t taped straight…



That’s enough of that…







The glass can wait & I don’t want to see another frame for a long time. While waiting divine or other inspiration about the interior I can ponder how to build the outer roof without being sure how it was supported – I can take some ribbing

That's some beautiful work Tim , no excessive words of adulation can convey the work and research you've put into this project , I'd have a better chance of finding a unicorn than accomplishing what you've done here , just gonna borrow an old Otis tune title , ... respect !!!
Very cool work dude .

Backatcha Glenn thanks mate (hey I’m getting a numb bum waiting for you to screen that back-room feature) & you’ll probably like the next update too – even I like it already which is truly rare, it must be because I haven't looked at the photos yet!

Yep,this is turning into one of the top coolest builds ever!
J

Think he needs a Manager... taking care of published materials

Without any doubt, the best so far I've seen (Tram related)

Robert Jan Gerardus Scholte van Mast (my full name)

Happy [insert preferred commemoration here] & thanks gents,

& thanks too for the clarification Robert Jan, I guess RJGSvM could take longer to type! The opposite irritation to my own, often being called by surname because it looks like a first name…talking of which hi Maarten, I can’t recall where you first posted that one but I know it was pretty special so I’m honoured to accept it on behalf of all the contributors to this project.

Back at the workbench, indecision set in about whether to make the roof or the ceiling first – obviously they’re inter-dependent & I’m still hoping for images of 624’s interior. So eventually I opted for the latter because without the roof in place I had unimpeded access to the panels from above & below…











Then I tried dry-fitting the original kit bulkhead in place, just to see how it looked from the outside…



Invisible eh? Revealing…or not, it’s close to replicating the view of Frenchy’s image posted April 12th . Not so hard to see from these angles although if I’d put in all the window glass…





..so I’m inclined to believe the trailer did have bulkheads after all - I’ll convert the kit parts to fit but allow some more time for interior images to fall out the sky. Moving on, ceiling panels completed…





No detail on the ceiling panels yet apart from a “spine” bar to support the lights and, presumably, the three air-vents…



Talking of which…



The spares boxes weren’t helpful with the cones, so I used a school pencil-sharpener on a solid rod of styrene to make them. The base mountings were originally for a Panther G rear deck (I think) & the brass rings saved me from the difficulties of cutting plastic versions…



The ventilators aren’t glued down yet because I’ll need to lay the roof on its back for ceiling work. Sure enough these photos don’t look as good as through the rose-tinted optivisor, and the un-remediable howler in the undercarriage drives me nuts every time, so the above view will probably be the last time you see the trailer from this side…

incredible how kits are detailed nowadays, isn’t it?
btw, where did you bought yours? i’d like to buy one also for myself....
ciao
edo

Hi Tim

IMHO the title of this tread should be changed to "Operation AnTramPoid"...

Maybe you'll find some useful views on this Facebook page :

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Pro-Trams-185963981435899/photos/?ref=page_internal

Even though #639 and #643 are not exactly the same as #624, they belongs to the 1909 series as well...

H.P.

Cool , wake up to some coffee and some plastic Timsmithing , just what I need to peruse on a rainy Sat. morn .
Which is good because I don't really give eeffoc until I've had my coffee .......

Hi Edo, uh-huh but you know the white bits are mine right? Try here, I thought I’d cleaned ‘em out but it’s still in stock:

https://www.bnamodelworld.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=0&keyword=miniart+european+tram

So Glenn I had you pegged as a tea & muffin kinda guy in the morning, not so?

Thanks Frenchy for digging into Livre du Visage for me – I’ve been so proud of never having gone there in my life…until just now! OK from the 20 or 30 views (incredibly ALL exteriors!) of trailer 639 it appears to be totally devoid of bulkheads & was at least back to 1960. As you say it’s the same series as 624 and - more pertinently - 640 which was the Reconstruction scene trailer, the very next in line to 639. So I’ve just gone from being indecisive to not so sure again.

Tim,
This little guy looks AWESOME!!!🚋 The only small thing I see, which may-or-may-not bother you, is a sag in the center of the roof. ... Never mind me, I'm guessing you've got it dealt with anyway.🔨

Cheers!🍺
—mike

Thanks Mike glad you noticed the saggage, it was (unusually) quite deliberate. Best photo to see how/why is the penultimate of the last (April 19) batch, the central rib’s flat in section but the ribs either side are square. What you’re seeing (in the final photo) is a combination of the ceiling panels rising higher from below (unlikely to be noticeable being in the interior) and the roof centre-board dipping lower from above, in order to be glued to the centre rib. Maybe it’s too much, I could make the sag more subtle when I install the outer (roof) panels. While more pronounced on very aged trams I’ve noticed a slight but discernible dip in the middle of some “younger” 1:1’s roofs too. Whatever, I shall hide behind the defense that this one must have been somewhere between 10 and 33 years old in 1942 & entitled to a minor droop…nope not touching that one either

Thanks for the clarification, Tim. Now don’t let the likes of me slow things down.🚧 Carry on, sir.👨‍✈️ ...🚋

—mike

OK carrying on carrying on with the carry-on Mike. The story so far: two glamorous female undercover agents of Czech ancestry are now on mission to extract interior shots of trailer 624, provided I don’t question their methods…something about “a vet job dahlink”…maybe I mis-heard. Meanwhile I’m living dangerously too, losing patience & guessing the seating arrangement based on passenger orientation observed in tourist videos (which suggest the typical Ringhoffer variant as per Frenchy’s recent post), and secondly what could have fitted the 1/35 figure space…







First attempt – it seemed only two pairs of back-to-back seats were possible so one original kit bench-seat was shortened for the long bench, and the other one re-purposed with millimetres to spare…





No point reprising the mind-numbing micro-masking painting steps, result test-fitted…



Photos of driver-trams with this arrangement show slats of alternating wood & cream, but I’m guessing this was either an original 1909 design or a post WW2 re-fit. When these 600-series trailers were likely built during the inter-war Depression years I’m guessing they cut costs with plain slats. Prove me wrong. Strange how misleading my own drawing was – testing in 3D it quickly became obvious that the two units could be much closer together (even closer than in these views) leaving room for another bench against the bulkhead at each end – just…





…assuming there were bulkheads of course. If so the doorway was probably central unlike the kit versions, dry-fitted here just to define the compartment space…





So now we wait. I’m not inclined to detail the benches with metal brackets & arms yet in case they’ll need more “carpentry”. Best case is I’ll only have to scratch-build two end-benches; worst case…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKAC7t0P65o

This whole project continues to blow my mind! I know from experience how much work you are putting into all facets of this build and it is monumental to say the least!
J

This is so cool. Honestly, I've learned so much about this operation and story here and the level of detail and skill displayed here is second to none. I'm astonished and I can honestly say, this is why I love this place. Cheers and keep up the amazing work.

Thanks Jerry it’s tempting to say something like “I have not yet begun to fight…the dio base” – see below. Nate - much appreciated & thanks for the encouragement, as you can see I’ve made seats for you guys but nobody boards until I know if they’re correct! Apropos…



Just received from Agent Vida, impressive considering she’s still in Paris. I understand that this diorama’s on show in the upper mansion museum at Panenske Brezany on the outskirts of Prague, the “requisitioned” residence of Heydrich’s deputy Karl Frank during the occupation – Heydrich’s was the lower mansion. I don’t know who made it but it’s a fine 1/35-scale effort, the excellent roadway must have taken many hours on its own & the Merc’s presumably converted from the ICM military hardtop like mine. The trams are wrong of course, although they look great as the MiniArt European (German/Belgian) versions out-of-the-box with a Prague-ish livery. The power stanchions should be on the sidewalk & far side of the trams rather than in between & the bicycle’s an accurate touch but should be much further away. The grenade’s already exploded so there should only be Kubis reeling back from shrapnel wounds on the sidewalk, Gabcik looking on with his jammed Sten from further back up the bend. Anyhow I salute the creator, a great job for what was probably a limited available space…which kinda confirms the lunacy of attempting something around 4 times larger. (PS if anyone knows the builder I’d like to credit them here)

Meanwhile my other agent broke comms silence yesterday to report interesting progress regarding accessing 624’s interior. The race is on…

Speaking of "lunacy," Tim.🤒 How do plan on replicating the cobble paved street? Jumping ahead, I know, but it must be on your mind... that is, if you'd care to talk about it. ... Doctor/patient confidentiality is of the utmost priority.👨‍⚕️

Cheers... hiccup.🥴
—mike

Hey Mike I’d been sleeping quite well until you reminded me about the roadway, gee thanks Herr Doktor now look at me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPb5tvcEYCQ

My notes tell me there was a thread in this forum called “A taste of home” last December featuring a very successful use of Green Stuff World’s rollers, one of which had a similar-looking cobble pattern to what I need. The problem is I’m not sure I could use clay (or plaster) over such relatively large areas without it flexing/cracking. Although planning to make 3 fit-together modules I also suspect it would make each one overly heavy, but I’m not sure the rollers would work on a lighter/more flexible alternative like (say) silicone.

I’m crazy enough to consider mosaic (I’m getting deja vu so maybe I’ve discussed this earlier) & I can think of a couple of ways of mo*lding/cookie-cutting thin sheets of (plaster or clay) cobbles, breaking them up & embedding them individually on a thin bed of PVA/Elmers. But my calculator keeps coming up with a figure of 30,000 tesserae (67% of the 1.5 sq m. base covered by 2.5 sq. mm. bricks), tell me I dropped a dec point somewhere?

Looking at the period 1:1 images with the recessed tram lines interrupting every run of cobbles…









…the short answer to your question may lie with that venerable Vietnamese savant Phuq Nos...he say “3D-printed slabs?”

Coming together nicely Martin, love the research you're putting into this beauty!

Hi Tim, would using the Green Stuff Tape ( Kneadatite ) give you a flexable enough and relatively lightweight layer for the cobblestones ?