I think there is nothing wrong with him showing his work for eeryone to see.

As you so brilliantly corrected my post, it's only white metal, plastic and resin in a simulated collapsed (well in this case simulated bleeding) position.

Oh yeah lots of blood here.

Well your pics are not relivent here because you show a peaceful man working on a plane......we are talking about an explosive street battle that is far from peaceful......and like you stated if its just plastic and metal then whats the big deal, none of it is real....the blood is only paint....the people are only plastic....yet again you fail to make everyone think this is a bad diorama and that the builder dosnt have the right to show it.......sorry but i dont see you winning this so called "battle of wits ".......so far you are loosing cause i dont see anyone joining your pathetic band wagon and wanting to ban this type of dio from the site...it wont happen so get use to it or leave the site if you dont want to see it. I didnt come out of a third world hole as you say i did, and i never said you had to agree with us....here is the quote from my post:

as you can see i did not say you had to like it, i said i dont care if you do, just dont put the people who like this dio down for liking it and thats all you here to do.....that shows by you telling me i crawled out of a third world bug hole.......

Yo, Stephen. Back up and take a few slow, deep breaths. This is not the end of civilization as we know it.

And the rest of you guys: Stephen has a strong opinion on this and there is no need to tell him to keep it to himself. Let's try to keep things civil.

This is one of those topics where we will never reach 100% agreement. It's like how much female skin is "too much" -- ask a member of the Taliban, then ask Larry Flynt -- most of us will fall somewhere in the broad band in between.

My personal taste is more toward "implied violence," but I do have dead bodies in a few of my dioramas. I felt they were necessary to convey the story -- they were not placed to glorify gore or gratuitous violence. That was my personal preference and not done to impress some Goth freak down the street. BTW, I have seen some very well done Holocaust dios -- haunting, compelling, disturbing, but not gratuitous -- just as they should be done. It's easy to go to far, though ... especially for an inexperinced modeler.

Stephen -- I can't help but note that you like to model WWI aircraft in rather idyllic settings. They are nice, but what about the other end of that story -- the poor grunts in the trenches, getting gassed, attacking on foot through the mud, blood and sometimes remains of their brothers and enemies. In your photo gallery you also have pics of crashed or crashing planes. I don't think the people involved in the real incidents were saying "oops" ... something to think about.

Jackflash,

CHILL OUT, Man!! This is really not that big of an issue. You are really making yourself look like a "fool" (moderator edit). If you don't want to see it or you don't want any "modeling children" to see it, don't look and tell everyone you know that it is horrible and should not be seen. Your models look great too. No one said a diorama had to have blood and gore to be good. On the same note, we shouldn't censure some that do show it and call it crap because someone felt compelled to build a diorama showing the horrors of war. You should just let it go, man.

No, sir, I'm not trying to change the world, I'm not even trying to change your opinion, because you're entitled to it. What I would like to change is the manner in which you present that opinion. You're concerned about the impressions on young people that may access this site? Then stop attacking us by using terms like barbaric to describe what we do. If the reality of armed conflict bothers you that much, I'm sure there are plenty of model car sites you could explore.

Art

Whoa Mohamad tread has now become "Whoa 8 pages of treads and still increasing". Sorry Badman had to release some tension seeing as things are getting a little warm. Having been in Page 1 of the post before seeing the pics and now having seen the photos, I've to say very good work Badman. Lots of stuff and action for the viewer to focus on.

The fact its gone 8 pages means its a subject everyone feels strongly about for whatever the motivations. That's the way it should be for death is the ultimate sacrifice in any war.

I feel what Badman has honestly managed to capture to some extent what most of us feel about war, from the war vets here who suffered through it to the regular layman and to the concerned parents. I seriously doubt Badman intended to insult anybody or glorify anything. Can't wait to see it done, Badman.

Mr. Lawson ... those are beautiful dioramas ... if that's your work you should be very proud ... truly magnificent work and you know what ... you really have an artists touch ... and you're absolutely correct ... no blood ...

but hey, I appreciate the frank and honest opinions from everyone who has posted here ... I never expected this to be as controversial as it's become especially since it was my first posting ... I usually don't "stir the pot" until my 10th post ... ONLY KIDDING SLODDER! ... This obviously is an issue that elicits strong responses from all sides and opinions run deep.

Mr. Lawson … I respect your opinion … I really do … I raised two sons … they respect and value life … I respect and value life …

BUT sir as I respect your opinion and agree with your right to state it ... I would appreciate not being painted by you as a gore monger ...

Mr. Lawson my representation of a wounded and dead soldiers doesn’t come close to the vivid accounts and graphic representations that any child can read by picking up any book in any library or book store with the blessing from his or her parents which is a historical account of any military action. My couple of scenes don’t come close to those works … read Decision over Schweinfurt, A Bridge To Far, Victory at Falaise, any John Toland book for more descriptive horror scenes then anything I can conjure up and they all come with photos too and very descriptive artistry … look at pictures of Shiloh or Antietem in history books … take a tour of the Gettysburg battlefield … go to the theater and watch saving Private Ryan, The Victors, Hamburger Hill or stay at home and watch Band of Brothers, When Trumpets Fade or watch the history channel on any given night or the 14+ hour special Walter Cronkite narrated on WWII in Europe … it was prime time in 1982. Play any first person shooter program on the PC, X-Box or Playstation that seems extremely popular with todays youth.

I guess this modeling site in your opinion is a haven to protect our youth from these heinous images … but it is a military modeling site …

I'm creating this diorama ... there are parts of it that my be sensitive to some ... you may not agree with how I'm proceeding with it ... I'm open to suggestion ... tell me CONSTRUCTIVELY how to do a better job ... Mr. Lawson and I’ll gratefully listen because I’m always open to constructive criticism. After I’m finished with this, I’m going to do one representing the 28th Infantry Division (named by the way, the Bloody Bucket) in the meat grinder better known as the Hurtgen Forest. I will need all the guidance I can get.

So why don’t we hang up this discussion up about blood/no blood go back to our corners and start working on our dioramas.

I’m sorry I ever brought it up. By the way Steve ... just for your infromation I never ruined Christmas for any kid by telling Santa wasn't real ... OOPS ...

amen to that

(wow, I posted before the "reply" button disappears!!)

Gentlemen,

could we please stop the discussion on right or wrong on the matter of publishing these pictures. If you want to go to the bottom of this (endless) discussion, then please take it elsewhere like the Junk Drawer. I don't want to offend anybody and I can see the points on both sides of the line, but this will become another endless discussion if we don't take care.

Let's stick to diorama modeling in this thread.

Thanks !

Very well. If this weights too heavy to deal with. Let me conclude with;

Military dioramas are not all about death. Usually its about courage. Idyllic? peaceful man working on a machine? The Diorama vignette is called Grooming a thoroughbred Fokker D.VII pilots acconted for over 2,500 victories in just 7 months of operations.

Alb. C.III titled 'We regret to inform you...' The crew of this a/c failed to return from the depicted mission over Verdun in the spring 1916.

Alb. D.III Home from the from Dec. 24, 1917. This pilot was KIA two days later.

The crashes I have depicted are Sans dead body figures. Except for one and I had the good taste to put a tarp over it...historically correct for this scene by the way. I guess the Brits in WWI trenches had a bit of decency that your not aware of.

By the way the Santa Claus - Cabalero was aimed at the fellow from Mexico who made the unsavory comment to me. Each one of you has made attempts to have at me with your oppinions. I simply responded to each of you as you came at me. Suspect more of you have had less to do with real war than you tout. Nevertheless, I think someone has used the word 'pathetic.' I agree he is.

Badman, this is not a personal attack against you. I mentioned your name only twice, here and once earlier. I don't question your morals. I just think we should take responsibility for our actions. I'm included in that as well. If it miffed anybody when I responded to your comments...what did you expect? You don't want your tail feathers singed? Stay out of my flight path. JackFlash out.

Whoa this is one long topic and a heated one at that, let me give a teenagers view on this. First off its just a model i have seen more realistic scenes from games that i know people under 12 play that depict violence way beyind what any model can show. Kids in this day and age have seen worse stuff than this dio on the news at night and on the front pages of newpapers. If you stand back and look its actually asif the youth are being desensitised to such images after all these blood and guts movies that are coming out. Not only that a movies that would have been rated "R" in the US like 10 years ago would probably be rated PG today.
I just dont see the problem kid know that the dio is just a model and that in war such things happen.
For example i have a ton of friends who spend there life searching the internet they have seen video from an apache shoot a guy with the main gun and him exploding second a few of them have seen images of a very sick (so sick i will never! dare watch it) and since it might offend i will not talk about it. There are wose things on the internet than these dio infact these are prolly some of the safest images on the net.

I echo Eagles sentiment - lets get back to building dioramas.

I'm sorry JackFlash, if you thought my comments were unsavory, its just that I am a disagreeable individual, and I can't change that, just like we can't change a distasteful activity like war to be accepted in society.

It still surprises me that you insist on censoring plastic models related to war and Death on the internet, when the average kid like me can download the complete video on the decapitation of Nicholas Berg, now that should be censored.


I will, but I will not show it of course Bye

It has already been done, and will be again.





http://www.digitaldioramas.com/2002/issue4/dd_final.htm

http://www.ww2modelmaker.com/modelpages/SHPmygod.htm