To scratch-build the side skirt mounting brackets I used 0.015mm Everegreen plastic sheet and cut a strip that was 14.3mm long and 1.5mm wide. I then drilled holes in it about every 8mm. It is definately not 100% accurate but it looks the part.
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Italeri M4A1 76mm Group Build
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 07:18 AM UTC
Here are some shots of my model after step 4. I have given it a cast texture, I left off the side skirts so I had to scratch-build the side skirt mounting brackets, and I attached the rear fenders, but modified them by cutting them down at the line that was etched into the rear of them. I know that the model looks crooked, but that is only because I took it out and put it on the trunk of my car (which is sloped) to take the pictures.
To scratch-build the side skirt mounting brackets I used 0.015mm Everegreen plastic sheet and cut a strip that was 14.3mm long and 1.5mm wide. I then drilled holes in it about every 8mm. It is definately not 100% accurate but it looks the part.
To scratch-build the side skirt mounting brackets I used 0.015mm Everegreen plastic sheet and cut a strip that was 14.3mm long and 1.5mm wide. I then drilled holes in it about every 8mm. It is definately not 100% accurate but it looks the part.
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 08:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Ken--What did you use to make the bolts? A punch & die set? So in all you placed 8 bolts per grouser (4 on track skid, 3 underneath, 1 on return roller mount)?
I used Plastruct's Hex Rod. 1mm for the 3 on the underside, and .8mm for the five others. Yes, there are 8 all together for each bogie unit, 48 total. They look round now because of the bright white color but, as soon as they are painted, their hex shape comes right out.
I also forgot to mention that on the forward side of each of the units (not viewable in the pic), I drilled four holes to represent the mounts for the return rollers. (The units were reversable)
Nothing was taken personally Adam.
I just thought i needed to say something to explain my absence from the build. I'm back! I know what you mean about "where is everyone". I noticed that someone showed pics (beautiful ones too) of an M45. Hmmm, perhaps someone got confused. ...Gunnie? Where art thou?
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextKen--What did you use to make the bolts? A punch & die set? So in all you placed 8 bolts per grouser (4 on track skid, 3 underneath, 1 on return roller mount)?
I used Plastruct's Hex Rod. 1mm for the 3 on the underside, and .8mm for the five others. Yes, there are 8 all together for each bogie unit, 48 total. They look round now because of the bright white color but, as soon as they are painted, their hex shape comes right out.
I also forgot to mention that on the forward side of each of the units (not viewable in the pic), I drilled four holes to represent the mounts for the return rollers. (The units were reversable)
Nothing was taken personally Adam.
Didn't get confused at all. I actually posted in to say I was taking a leave of absence from the Group Build to complete the M45 Pershing Conversion - to return around Week Four, or so. I do have commissioned projects that take precedence over my personal modeling pleasures. I didn't feel the need to respond to Adam's post calling everyone else out - I had already done so with mine beforehand...
Gunnie
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 11:19 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Didn't get confused at all. I actually posted in to say I was taking a leave of absence from the Group Build to complete the M45 Pershing Conversion - to return around Week Four, or so. I do have commissioned projects that take precedence over my personal modeling pleasures. I didn't feel the need to respond to Adam's post calling everyone else out - I had already done so with mine beforehand...
I know that you said that you had to take a leave and Tankera1 said that he had about finished (where are your pics Tankera1
) and a number of people had stated that they started, but then that was the last that we have heard from them. Those are the people that I would like to hear from.Does anyone have any tips they can share with me for trying to create the brush guards over the periscopes? I am going to ty my hand at soldering, but it has been at least 12 years since the last time I held a soldering iron and am not very confident that I will be able to get this to work for me.
Tankera1
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 138 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 10:03 AM UTC
Ok, I am going to try and post a pic of my M4. This will be my first attempt at model photography so bare with me. I have finished construction other than the tracks and MG. I am going to try the preshading techniques I have been reading about so I have painted the model flat black. I will let that dry for a few days and then go with an olive green. I am going to also try the Future technique relative to washing. I haven't done anything other than just build what the kit offered as I am trying to just get back into modeling.
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 11:50 AM UTC
Your model is looking good Tankera1 for just trying to get back into modeling! How long has it been since you last built a kit?
I have some questions regarding some of the future steps:
1) Does anyone have any thoughts as to what to do with some of the poor tools supplied with the kit? Would it be better to create the attachment points for teh tools, but leave them off or would that not be too realistic? I don't have many in action photos of Shermans to show me how common or uncommon it was for tools to be missing.
2) What is everyone doing with that shapeless lump of a horn? It looks nothing like what either of the horns that were on Shermans looked like as far as I can tell. Would it be o.k. to leave it off or were they always present?
3) What is everyone doing for the tow cable? How about the missing attachment points (the clips with wingnuts that actually clamped the tow cable ends to the hull)?
4) Can anyone tell me if I am incorrect in assuming that it would be o.k. to leave the spare track block racks off of the back? Most of the pictures that I do have of M4A1s in action are of tanks that are lacking that feature. I was thinking about stealing the wingnuts from the rack to use on my tow cable attachment points.
5) What can be done for the empty hole on the turret where the periscope should be? I know that people use stuff to fill those holes, but what?
Thanks in advance.
I have some questions regarding some of the future steps:
1) Does anyone have any thoughts as to what to do with some of the poor tools supplied with the kit? Would it be better to create the attachment points for teh tools, but leave them off or would that not be too realistic? I don't have many in action photos of Shermans to show me how common or uncommon it was for tools to be missing.
2) What is everyone doing with that shapeless lump of a horn? It looks nothing like what either of the horns that were on Shermans looked like as far as I can tell. Would it be o.k. to leave it off or were they always present?
3) What is everyone doing for the tow cable? How about the missing attachment points (the clips with wingnuts that actually clamped the tow cable ends to the hull)?
4) Can anyone tell me if I am incorrect in assuming that it would be o.k. to leave the spare track block racks off of the back? Most of the pictures that I do have of M4A1s in action are of tanks that are lacking that feature. I was thinking about stealing the wingnuts from the rack to use on my tow cable attachment points.
5) What can be done for the empty hole on the turret where the periscope should be? I know that people use stuff to fill those holes, but what?
Thanks in advance.
Tankera1
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 138 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, October 28, 2002 - 01:19 AM UTC
Thanks Adam I appreciate the kind words. I last built a model in 1996. Prior to that I was very active in building armor for the most part. I was one of the Shep Paine and Verlindin disciples in my early years. They showed the way. Don't know about Sherman crews but we were pretty careful with our tools and gear on all the tanks I was on. Everything was stowed, locked down, tied down, or secured in the bustle rack. If it was left laying on the deck or turret it would bounce off. I want to build a couple more kits OOB and then go for some easy PE detail inhancements. By the way John is my given name.
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Monday, October 28, 2002 - 02:34 AM UTC
Didn't mean any offence there Gunnie. Sorry if I stired the pot in the wrong direction.
Tankera1 a.k.a. John, it looks great thus far. It's great to be back building, eh?!!
Adam, as far as making the periscope guards you could scratch build them from brass. I did on my winter Sherman. I did not solder them but, rather used super glue for them. Wish I saved the pics.
I have seen a couple of Sherms missing one or two of their tools. I guess you could opt to leave one or two off and model their respective attachments. Another option would be to rob the tools from another kit. I don't like to do that too much because eventually you'll be left with no tools for their build.
For the horn, again, you could rob from another's but, it leaves that kit barren of one. You could show it as if it were broken off. Just twist or bend guards from brass or the kit supplied ones to show it was lost. Add a little rust there. You could try to fix it a bit by using some Milliput to add the missing "cone" shape to the rear side of it. Or cover up the area with some crew supplies or spare tracks...
For the tow cables, fashion the attachments with thin brass or what have you. Easy enough.
For the spare track blocks, not all vehicles had them. I would go with "it's optional".
For the missing periscope, you could make a one with some plastic strip. Only the face and it's top are needed. They are quite small so it may be a little difficult. You could either cut the square hole it the scratchbuilt periscope's face and glue a piece to the inside to represent the glass or paint it on.
Tankera1 a.k.a. John, it looks great thus far. It's great to be back building, eh?!!
Adam, as far as making the periscope guards you could scratch build them from brass. I did on my winter Sherman. I did not solder them but, rather used super glue for them. Wish I saved the pics.
I have seen a couple of Sherms missing one or two of their tools. I guess you could opt to leave one or two off and model their respective attachments. Another option would be to rob the tools from another kit. I don't like to do that too much because eventually you'll be left with no tools for their build.
For the horn, again, you could rob from another's but, it leaves that kit barren of one. You could show it as if it were broken off. Just twist or bend guards from brass or the kit supplied ones to show it was lost. Add a little rust there. You could try to fix it a bit by using some Milliput to add the missing "cone" shape to the rear side of it. Or cover up the area with some crew supplies or spare tracks...
For the tow cables, fashion the attachments with thin brass or what have you. Easy enough.
For the spare track blocks, not all vehicles had them. I would go with "it's optional".
For the missing periscope, you could make a one with some plastic strip. Only the face and it's top are needed. They are quite small so it may be a little difficult. You could either cut the square hole it the scratchbuilt periscope's face and glue a piece to the inside to represent the glass or paint it on.
Plasticbattle
#003
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Monday, October 28, 2002 - 03:17 AM UTC
I was one of those who wanted to participate and still want to, but I had/have so many projects started, I was afraid to start another. I finished up 3 differnet projects over the last 2 weeks and am now ready to join in. I have the kit and the notes on here of what folks did, so I should catch up, quite quickly. Sorry for that on my behalf.
Something extra: There is now a group build/contest for a sniper dio and the guys have Jim to sort out a ribbon for winners/participants to be placed by their avatar. I thought it was a cool idea and maybe something that could be used for this group build also to increase interest/initative. What do you guys think?
Something extra: There is now a group build/contest for a sniper dio and the guys have Jim to sort out a ribbon for winners/participants to be placed by their avatar. I thought it was a cool idea and maybe something that could be used for this group build also to increase interest/initative. What do you guys think?
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Monday, October 28, 2002 - 04:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Something extra: There is now a group build/contest for a sniper dio and the guys have Jim to sort out a ribbon for winners/participants to be placed by their avatar. I thought it was a cool idea and maybe something that could be used for this group build also to increase interest/initative. What do you guys think?
I agree with you - I think that would be a nice idea to be applied the the Aircraft and Armor Group efforts as well, not to single out Dioramas as somehow more attractive or important. Just a simple participation ribbon would be better than anything else to alleviate any "competition" air.
Gunnie
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, October 28, 2002 - 05:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Something extra: There is now a group build/contest for a sniper dio and the guys have Jim to sort out a ribbon for winners/participants to be placed by their avatar. I thought it was a cool idea and maybe something that could be used for this group build also to increase interest/initative. What do you guys think?
I think that this is a good idea as well. One question: how are they determining participation? Just posting in the threads isn't enough in my opinion. I think that to be considered a participate one should be building the kit and sharing at least some shots of the finished model. I say this because I know that there are some people that are posting here that aren't participating (such as 210cav and herberta who both said that they built the kit before, but weren't doing it for the group build). Does this sound reasonable?
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Monday, October 28, 2002 - 05:48 AM UTC
I believe the Campaign Ribbon awarding is predicated on posting in-progress photos - and "completion photos" of the project...
There were alot of ideas and thoughts bouncing back and forth, though...
Gunnie
There were alot of ideas and thoughts bouncing back and forth, though...
Gunnie
Plasticbattle
#003
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Monday, October 28, 2002 - 11:48 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I believe the Campaign Ribbon awarding is predicated on posting in-progress photos - and "completion photos" of the project...
I agree 100%. I have posted 2 or 3 times but havent started yet. I shouldnt get anything for that!
I guess it would be OK with me if somebody like Adam (who seems to be the main driving force behind this group build) or group moderators decided who should recieve one.
They should state in the thread what is complusory and then there would be no complaints!
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 12:59 AM UTC
I agree with Gunnie 100%. If you post some "in-progress" shots (even if it is just one right before you paint) and a shot or two of your finished model then I say that you have participated.
BTW, where is everyone at now on this model? I am currently doing steps 5 & 6 together because they are basically the same thing (add misc. fittings and tools to the hull). I am scratch-building the tow cable, tow cable clamps, tool attachments, & periscope guards. This has been one of the most educational projects that I have ever worked on because it has forced me to learn some scratch-building skills rather than do my normal thing and use PE. I am getting a much greater sense of satisfaction from this build than any in the past. Gunnie & Kenc--Your skills are a true inspiration! Keep the pictures coming!
BTW, where is everyone at now on this model? I am currently doing steps 5 & 6 together because they are basically the same thing (add misc. fittings and tools to the hull). I am scratch-building the tow cable, tow cable clamps, tool attachments, & periscope guards. This has been one of the most educational projects that I have ever worked on because it has forced me to learn some scratch-building skills rather than do my normal thing and use PE. I am getting a much greater sense of satisfaction from this build than any in the past. Gunnie & Kenc--Your skills are a true inspiration! Keep the pictures coming!
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 06:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Here are some shots of my model after step 4. I have given it a cast texture, I left off the side skirts so I had to scratch-build the side skirt mounting brackets, and I attached the rear fenders, but modified them by cutting them down at the line that was etched into the rear of them. I know that the model looks crooked, but that is only because I took it out and put it on the trunk of my car (which is sloped) to take the pictures.
To scratch-build the side skirt mounting brackets I used 0.015mm Everegreen plastic sheet and cut a strip that was 14.3mm long and 1.5mm wide. I then drilled holes in it about every 8mm. It is definately not 100% accurate but it looks the part.
Adam----Amigo, Dagger and I can not figure out how you eliminated the seam on your idler wheel without leaving the wheel scared. Can you explain what you did?
thanks
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 06:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I agree with Gunnie 100%. If you post some "in-progress" shots (even if it is just one right before you paint) and a shot or two of your finished model then I say that you have participated.
BTW, where is everyone at now on this model? I am currently doing steps 5 & 6 together because they are basically the same thing (add misc. fittings and tools to the hull). I am scratch-building the tow cable, tow cable clamps, tool attachments, & periscope guards. This has been one of the most educational projects that I have ever worked on because it has forced me to learn some scratch-building skills rather than do my normal thing and use PE. I am getting a much greater sense of satisfaction from this build than any in the past. Gunnie & Kenc--Your skills are a true inspiration! Keep the pictures coming!
Now that I've wrestled the track links on my M45 Pershing and can wrap things up quickly between other projects - I'm back into the Group Build with the rest of you guys! I'm going home early today, so I'll be able to take and post pics. I'm through Step Four and am getting prepared to put hull fittings on and prep for texturing. You guys are having way too much fun putting detail on your models - now I want to do a little bit more to dress up what comes in the box. Before the end of the week I'll be through Step Six.
Gunnie
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 07:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Adam----Amigo, Dagger and I can not figure out how you eliminated the seam on your idler wheel without leaving the wheel scared. Can you explain what you did?
I put the wheel on my Dremel and first hit it with an emory board and then hit it with the finest steel wool you can buy. The steel wheel is what smoothes out the wheel and eliminates all traces of scarring.
HTH
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 07:38 AM UTC
I'm all over the place with the steps now! Ahhh...4, 5, & 6.
Is anyone else going to add the sand skirts? I'm going to make mine a little war torn...bent and torn and cool stuff like that.
I'm also trying to fix the gun barrel. It'll take some work but, it can be done.
Is anyone else going to add the sand skirts? I'm going to make mine a little war torn...bent and torn and cool stuff like that.
I'm also trying to fix the gun barrel. It'll take some work but, it can be done.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 07:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm all over the place with the steps now! Ahhh...4, 5, & 6.
Is anyone else going to add the sand skirts? I'm going to make mine a little war torn...bent and torn and cool stuff like that.
I'm also trying to fix the gun barrel. It'll take some work but, it can be done.
I've got skirts on mine - didn't want her runnin' around with it all hangin' out...
I'm going to replicate wear - but I'm modeling a model that was eventually knocked out historically - it didn't last long enough in service to acheive a high-degree of wear and abuse in reality.
Gunnie
Tankera1
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 138 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 12:13 PM UTC
Relative to removing scratches after using a file or sanding stick on road and idler wheels I have had great luck using scotchbrite pads. I used them for most clean up work.
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 12:37 AM UTC
Does anyone have any closeup photos of what the antenna mount on the rear of the turret looks like? I've gone through all of my references and can't seem to find any good photos.
m60a3
Joined: March 08, 2002
KitMaker: 778 posts
Armorama: 396 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 02:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Adam----Amigo, Dagger and I can not figure out how you eliminated the seam on your idler wheel without leaving the wheel scared. Can you explain what you did?
thanks
Col DJ - Scarring is not necessarily a bad thing...dependent on terrain and use.
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 03:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextAdam----Amigo, Dagger and I can not figure out how you eliminated the seam on your idler wheel without leaving the wheel scared. Can you explain what you did?
thanks
Col DJ - Scarring is not necessarily a bad thing...dependent on terrain and use.
Bob--I agree. However, looking (admiring) at Adam's workmanship I would like to replicate his handywork. Any ideas?
DJ
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 03:12 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Bob--I agree. However, looking (admiring) at Adam's workmanship I would like to replicate his handywork. Any ideas?
DJ--Did you see my earlier post regarding how I did this in answer to your question?
m60a3
Joined: March 08, 2002
KitMaker: 778 posts
Armorama: 396 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 03:27 AM UTC
I did it the "old school" way; a big flat x-acto blade followed up with fine steel wool. I'll shoot a pic tonight to show it.
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