Quoted Text
Is anyone going to try adding more texture to the armor?
I hadn't thought about it, but I may just have to try that using Werner's (I believe) technique.
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Italeri M4A1 76mm Group Build
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 14, 2002 - 05:31 AM UTC
I hadn't thought about it, but I may just have to try that using Werner's (I believe) technique.
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 14, 2002 - 05:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
You guys were perfectly right in chastizing me for it. Obvious only to me I guess. Will work on my communicating skills before posting again.
Geez ARMDCAV. Don't beat yourself up. Just a misunderstanding, that's all. No harm no foul. #:-)
herberta
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 14, 2002 - 05:41 AM UTC
Hi Adam
I textured my recently completed M4A176. I applied liquid glue on the hull and turret, then stippled it with a brush, then once it all dried, sanded. I found it was a lot of work for little return. In 1/35 scale the roughest cast is pretty smooth. I found there was a lot of sanding required to get a nice texture, and then you have to fix some things that get buggered up by the application of glue and then the sanding. So go easy!! Work on small sections, just like applying zimmerit with putty. You also need to let the glued surface dry for a LONG time before sanding, because the glue softens the plastic (which is the point, of course!), and that makes for a tough surface to sand.
Cheers
Andy
I textured my recently completed M4A176. I applied liquid glue on the hull and turret, then stippled it with a brush, then once it all dried, sanded. I found it was a lot of work for little return. In 1/35 scale the roughest cast is pretty smooth. I found there was a lot of sanding required to get a nice texture, and then you have to fix some things that get buggered up by the application of glue and then the sanding. So go easy!! Work on small sections, just like applying zimmerit with putty. You also need to let the glued surface dry for a LONG time before sanding, because the glue softens the plastic (which is the point, of course!), and that makes for a tough surface to sand.
Cheers
Andy
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 12:50 AM UTC
Well, I finally got around to finishing Steps 1 & 2 of the Sherman. Last night, I decided to go ahead and try out the texturing technique that Werner Kampfhofer (tankbuster) describes in his article Texturing AFV Surfaces and must say that I am pleased with the results so far. Here is one of the finished bogies from Step 1:
And here is the hull from Step 2 (I left the bogies off to make painting the roadwheels easier):
And here is the hull from Step 2 (I left the bogies off to make painting the roadwheels easier):
Tankera1
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 138 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 01:00 PM UTC
Ok, I am cooking now. I had a very productive afternoon and completed step 3 and am now caught up with the timeline of the group build. I did, however, leave off the sandshields as I just don't think that they look right on a Sherman. The texture work being done on some of the models looks good. So far I am pretty much staying with an out of box model. Having fun though.
herberta
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 04:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
...I did, however, leave off the sandshields as I just don't think that they look right on a Sherman...
Hi
Well, if you leave off the sand shields you may want to add the sand shield attachement strip (my term) to the lower edge of the hull. If you look at Sherman pics, you'll see M4A1s without sand shields have this narrow strip of sheet metal on the lower edge of each hull side. These strips have holes in them, which I believe were where the bolts for the sand shields were attached. I used thin sheet styrene to make these things, then punched holes in them with a needle. It looks OK.
Of course that my violate the 'rules' of the group build!!
Cheers
Andy
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 04:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Well, if you leave off the sand shields you may want to add the sand shield attachement strip (my term) to the lower edge of the hull. If you look at Sherman pics, you'll see M4A1s without sand shields have this narrow strip of sheet metal on the lower edge of each hull side. These strips have holes in them, which I believe were where the bolts for the sand shields were attached. I used thin sheet styrene to make these things, then punched holes in them with a needle. It looks OK.
Of course that my violate the 'rules' of the group build!!
Andy,
That shouldn't violate the rules of the group build because we allowed for small scratch-built improvements. Could you possibly post (or email me) a picture showing this and/or a picture your scratch-built version? I am not sure that I've ever seen a picture with this (maybe I wasn't looking hard enough) and am interested on doing this with my M4A1.
herberta
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 04:42 AM UTC
Hi Adam
Look here:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?set_albumName=album15&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Pictures 3, 4, 5... show what I mean. Especially the photos of the M4A176(w) !!
Definitely not looking hard enough my friend! You can see they are broken off in some cases, or wrap all the way around the back!
I will try to get photos of my tank (completed) within a couple of days. Don't hold your breath, I'm very busy at work, and most of my modelling time is being spent sneaking looks here and at Track Link when I should be working!? 
Cheers
Andy
Look here:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?set_albumName=album15&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Pictures 3, 4, 5... show what I mean. Especially the photos of the M4A176(w) !!
Definitely not looking hard enough my friend! You can see they are broken off in some cases, or wrap all the way around the back!
I will try to get photos of my tank (completed) within a couple of days. Don't hold your breath, I'm very busy at work, and most of my modelling time is being spent sneaking looks here and at Track Link when I should be working!?
Cheers
Andy
herberta
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 04:44 AM UTC
Oh, and by the way, my M4A176 was built to match one like in photo 10 in the series in the gallery here.
That photo is in the Squadron Sherman in Action book. I like the expedient armor upgrades. It also means I didn't have to bother fixing some of the oversized detail on the front hull of the Italeri kit!
Cheers
Andy
That photo is in the Squadron Sherman in Action book. I like the expedient armor upgrades. It also means I didn't have to bother fixing some of the oversized detail on the front hull of the Italeri kit!
Cheers
Andy
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 05:04 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Definitely not looking hard enough my friend!
Geez, you aren't kidding! And to think that I even have picutre number 3 as my desktop wallpaper here at work. It has been in front of my face for weeks!
(this isn't cool smiley it is blind smiley)Andy--can you tell me the specifics of what you did. What size (thickness) plastic card did you use? Length is easy enough to figure out but how wide did you make it? I can't tell from the pictures how it is held onto the tank, any thoughts? How far apart did you space the holes? Finally, do you know of any good line drawings that show this hanger?
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 05:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Week 2:
I just about finished the second step of the group build. This step is an easy one which consists of attaching the drive sprocket, idlers, bogies (from step one) and the rear hull panel. I opted to leave the bogies off for better access come paint time.
As usual, these parts needed some cleaning of seam lines and a little flash. Also the rear hull panel needs some filler for a cleaner fit.
How's everyone else coming along?
I stopped at the end of Step Two - temporary diversion to complete a M45 Pershing Close Support Tank conversion of the Tamiya M26 Pershing. It's turned out quite nicely. I'll catch back up with the group be Week Four or so...
Gunnie
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 05:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextWeek 2:
I just about finished the second step of the group build. This step is an easy one which consists of attaching the drive sprocket, idlers, bogies (from step one) and the rear hull panel. I opted to leave the bogies off for better access come paint time.
As usual, these parts needed some cleaning of seam lines and a little flash. Also the rear hull panel needs some filler for a cleaner fit.
How's everyone else coming along?
I stopped at the end of Step Two - temporary diversion to complete a M45 Pershing Close Support Tank conversion of the Tamiya M26 Pershing. It's turned out quite nicely. I'll catch back up with the group be Week Four or so...
Gunnie
Master of the Model Universe---where did you post a photo of your M-45 effort?
DJ
herberta
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 06:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Geez, you aren't kidding! And to think that I even have picutre number 3 as my desktop wallpaper here at work. It has been in front of my face for weeks!
Andy--can you tell me the specifics of what you did. What size (thickness) plastic card did you use? Length is easy enough to figure out but how wide did you make it? I can't tell from the pictures how it is held onto the tank, any thoughts? How far apart did you space the holes? Finally, do you know of any good line drawings that show this hanger?
Well, that's pretty funny. I do research on attention and perception. Would you like to be a subject!!
OK, I used the thinnest sheet plastic I had. It's evergreen sheet, and I think it is .05 or .10 thickness. I used my mark one eyeball to estimate the width by looking over photos and drawings in my various references (the Squadron Sherman book, Concord's Sherman book and others). I don't have Hunnicut's book. I'm not sure if there are good scale diagrams to get the exact size. Maybe MMIR's book on the Sherman would help (I don't have that either).
I'll look at the completed kit when I get a chance, but as I recall the strip I made is about 1.5 mm wide. I punched holes in it every few mm, again using photos as a guide. Frankly, I went for 'looks right' rather than measuring. I figured adding the sand shield attachment would look better than not having one, however inaccurate it was!
From what I can tell, the metal strip is welded on. There is no visible attachment in the photos, so I glued them in place. I find that evergreen plastic melts onto the kit parts when using Testors liquid cement, and it is then pemanently affixed!
So, I tried to cut straight lines, I made equally spaced holes, but I didn't do much measuring. My 'expedient' frontal armor was made using the same empirical (cut, test, cut, test etc.) approach!
Cheers
Andy
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 06:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I stopped at the end of Step Two - temporary diversion to complete a M45 Pershing Close Support Tank conversion of the Tamiya M26 Pershing. It's turned out quite nicely. I'll catch back up with the group be Week Four or so...
Gunnie
Quoted Text
Master of the Model Universe---where did you post a photo of your M-45 effort?
DJ
I haven't posted photos of the model anywhere - yet - but here's five in-progress photos I have in my scrap bin folder. I'll upload better replacement photos to my website page later on...
Gunnie
tankshack
Joined: January 30, 2002
KitMaker: 310 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 07:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Master of the Model Universe---where did you post a photo of your M-45 effort?
DJ
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I haven't posted photos of the model anywhere - yet - but here's five in-progress photos I have in my scrap bin folder. I'll upload better replacement photos to my website page later on...
Jim,
If those images represent the work in your "scrap bin" maybe DJ was right, and you are the "Master of the Model Universe".
Seriously, the model looks great. The images show an incredible attention to detail.
Later,
Tim
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 07:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Master of the Model Universe---where did you post a photo of your M-45 effort?
DJ
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I haven't posted photos of the model anywhere - yet - but here's five in-progress photos I have in my scrap bin folder. I'll upload better replacement photos to my website page later on...
Jim,
If those images represent the work in your "scrap bin" maybe DJ was right, and you are the "Master of the Model Universe".
Seriously, the model looks great. The images show an incredible attention to detail.
Later,
Tim
Thank Tim! I really try to do justice to the model subjects I select. Always wanted to do the M45 Pershing - and it's turned out to be a fun experience...
Gunnie
YodaMan
Joined: February 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,561 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 08:39 AM UTC
Here's an article for all you who are participating in the group build: Detailing and correcting Italeri’s Sherman M4A1
Most of you have probably seen it already... but I thought I'd post it.
YodaMan
Most of you have probably seen it already... but I thought I'd post it.
YodaMan
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 12:28 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Master of the Model Universe---where did you post a photo of your M-45 effort?
DJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven't posted photos of the model anywhere - yet - but here's five in-progress photos I have in my scrap bin folder. I'll upload better replacement photos to my website page later on...
Jim,
If those images represent the work in your "scrap bin" maybe DJ was right, and you are the "Master of the Model Universe".
Seriously, the model looks great. The images show an incredible attention to detail.
Later,
Tim
Tim--can you believe this guy! My Wife thinks I am watching porn on the internet as I make little squeals of delight while drooling over his workmanship (again). Amazing individual with more creativity in his little finger than I have in my entire body. I trust he will supply some details on how he did it. Look at the gun shield...superb detail.
Good job, Buddy.
DJ
Ranger74
Joined: April 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,290 posts
Armorama: 658 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 03:00 AM UTC
Well I have finally started step 1. I was very quick with Step 0 (getting the kit down from the attic. I always worj better under pressure (i.e., behind the power curve) 
I am having to sand the "tread" on all of teh road wheels, bad mold shift. Sure glad this isn't an HVSS suspension Looking ahead, once I get the boggies completed construction should allow me to catch up
Jeff
I am having to sand the "tread" on all of teh road wheels, bad mold shift. Sure glad this isn't an HVSS suspension Looking ahead, once I get the boggies completed construction should allow me to catch up Jeff
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, October 21, 2002 - 02:56 AM UTC
Well, here is a picture of my finished step 3. I didn't include the upper hull in the picture because all I did was add the bow machine gun. I made a few changes to this step. I used wire for the engine hatch handle and I cut down the rear fenders (at the line that is present on the backside of them) and left them off till step 4 as the fit is tight with the air cleaners.
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 01:05 AM UTC
I have a question regarding step 5. I am wondering which parts you guys would replace with wire and what gauge wire would be the closest to scale.
1) I am definately going to replace the hatch handles (30B), but what gauge would you recommend using?
2) Should I replace 52B (the rear lifting attachment I think (i.e. where cranes attach their lines to when lifting the tank)) and if so what gauge?
3) Should I replace 54B (the front lifting attachment) and if so what gauge?
4) Should I replace 44B (the brush guards for the periscopes) and if so what gauge and how? Soldering?
Thanks.
1) I am definately going to replace the hatch handles (30B), but what gauge would you recommend using?
2) Should I replace 52B (the rear lifting attachment I think (i.e. where cranes attach their lines to when lifting the tank)) and if so what gauge?
3) Should I replace 54B (the front lifting attachment) and if so what gauge?
4) Should I replace 44B (the brush guards for the periscopes) and if so what gauge and how? Soldering?
Thanks.
Tankera1
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 138 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 01:46 PM UTC
Well, I guess I was having too much fun with this kit. I am finished with construction, I have built it completly out of the box to include the gun tube. Guess I will start the finishing process this weekend. I have to say it was fun and the kit went together well. Really don't like those plastic tracks though, awfully tight.
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:27 AM UTC
Where the heck is everyone at here? I thought that this was going to be a GROUP build where we all contributed photos and notes on construction. So far, I am the only one who has bothered to post any pictures and besides step 1, I am the only one who has posted any construction notes. Are we doing a group build or what? Come on people. Get some pictures posted and contribute to this group build with some notes, questions, anything so that I'm not all alone here.
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 02:02 PM UTC
Eeeek! Sorry for the delay in action on my part. I've been very busy with the other things in life. There's a whole other world outside of modelling. ...bummer
For the most part, I'm finishing the application of the hull/turret texture, and the other parts which need it. That lovely "cast" effect that is so lacking in the kit.
Here is a pic of the added bolts to the bogies. The most important, I thought to add, are the three that are missing from the bottom of the bogie units. The others I added are the four to the track skids, and one more to the bottom of the return roller mount.
Adam, as far as the gauge or diameter for the handles to be replaced, I haven't any to offer. I just use whatever I feel is close to what should be used according to real photos. I have several gauges on hand, unfortunetly, none of which are marked. If it looks closes...go for it.
I hope to be back up to speed with the rest of the group in the next couple of days.
...bummerFor the most part, I'm finishing the application of the hull/turret texture, and the other parts which need it. That lovely "cast" effect that is so lacking in the kit.
Here is a pic of the added bolts to the bogies. The most important, I thought to add, are the three that are missing from the bottom of the bogie units. The others I added are the four to the track skids, and one more to the bottom of the return roller mount.
Adam, as far as the gauge or diameter for the handles to be replaced, I haven't any to offer. I just use whatever I feel is close to what should be used according to real photos. I have several gauges on hand, unfortunetly, none of which are marked. If it looks closes...go for it.
I hope to be back up to speed with the rest of the group in the next couple of days.
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 11:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Eeeek! Sorry for the delay in action on my part. I've been very busy with the other things in life. There's a whole other world outside of modelling. ...bummer
Ken--This wasn't directed at you so please don't take this personally (you have been active). What I am trying to get at is that I thought that we were going to share experiences and pictures of our builds and besides you and I, no one else has really said much except that they were planning on getting started. I would have thought that some people would be at least on stage 2 by now. This wasn't meant to be a rant either. More of a motivational "Let's go team!" sort of thing. I am really looking forward to seeing everyone's work and am hoping that they post it soon!
Quoted Text
Here is a pic of the added bolts to the bogies. The most important, I thought to add, are the three that are missing from the bottom of the bogie units. The others I added are the four to the track skids, and one more to the bottom of the return roller mount.
Ken--What did you use to make the bolts? A punch & die set? So in all you placed 8 bolts per grouser (4 on track skid, 3 underneath, 1 on return roller mount)?
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