Italeri M4A1 76mm Group Build
California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2002 - 07:41 AM UTC
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I'm just texturing my Sherman hull. It's kinda of a slow process to buildup a sand-cast texture on it right now. I can't wait to finish that and move on to painting...
Gunnie
Gunnie, What is your technique for replicating texture?
I'm going with Gunze Sangyo Mr.Surfacer 500. I'm applying alternating layers, in random patterns, to replicate the surface - kinda like a "swirl". The stippling motion results in a "grainy" appearance, and that doesn't look like what I see when I look at the real ones, when applied with putty. When you stipple with GS Mr.Surfacer, it smooths out and looks closer to the real thing when dry. It's a really odd combination of a stipple brush and a swirl pattern. It's thin too, so you can buildup a scale appearing texture in the end without going overboard. If you don't like it, you can work it down with Lacquer Thinner.
It's like the effect you get when you take a finger or thumb and rub-down a bit of putty on a smooth plastic surface - without all the mess.
Gunnie
Museum Associate Curator, Military Vehicle Technology Foundation (MVTF), Portola Valley, California
GunTruck Studios
AMPS #1044
IPMS/USA #24551
Florida, United States
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 05:59 AM UTC
Here's two pics of my homemade brush guards. My camera is acting up so the pics are not as clear as I had hoped.
I will not grease the monkey bars. I will not grease the monkey bars. ...
Bart's chalkboard amercement
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 06:59 AM UTC
Ken--marvelous job! Can you provide details? Size wire, how you put the strands together, how you ensure uniformity of size....
Many thanks
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
Florida, United States
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 08:31 AM UTC
I used 26 guage brass wire. I probably should have used 28 or 30. No biggie though.
I use the kit's supplied as a basic template by cutting it into seperate pieces, ie; the side supports and the top rails. I use a pair of tapered pliers to hold the side pieces and fold into a "U" shape (without the curve on the bottom, the pliers keep it flat. I put a mark on the plier's taper to get the same size for each of the side pieces.
I than place the piece into another plier (actually an adjustable wrench) to make the angled bend for the "attachment points".
Than I put the "attachment points" into yet another plier and squeeze to make the attachments flatter. (the one in the pic is extreme to show what I'm after)
After the side pieces are made the rest is easy. Just super glue to them to the model and measure and cut and super glue the rails onto them.
I hope that helps or at least explains what I did.
I will not grease the monkey bars. I will not grease the monkey bars. ...
Bart's chalkboard amercement
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 08:47 AM UTC
Ken--thanks very much. Just great work which is attempt to emulate. Thanks again.
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
Tennessee, United States
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 138 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 10:23 AM UTC
First, I am still in the game but had to wait for some decent weather as I must do all my airbrush work outdoors. It rained week before last and of course this week we had the storms and tornados here in Tennessee so there was no outside work being done. Painted the hull and turret today, olive green, and it looks good over the black preshading. I see that I am going to have to practice that technique more. Ken, those brushguards look great. I am going to have to try that on my next kit.
Canada
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 07:37 AM UTC
OK
I finally cleaned up my photos, and posted them here:
http://groups.msn.com/armorama/andysstuffinprogress.msnw I built this kit before we moved, and it's been sitting in a box since May. I have a Churchill Croc, a M20, lots of US and British crewmen and a dio base. All are in various stages of completion. Some day I'll get all this crap out and finish the dio. For now, I'm taking a break working on a few figures and a PzIIIJ. I have to say this thread is leading to some interest in finishing that dio!
I hope the pictures are some help. I textured the cast areas, uparmored the hull, added sand-sheild retainer strips, replaced the barrel, used AFV Club three bar tracks, and worked on the tools.
You guys are all catching up to me!!
Cheers
Andy
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 08:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
OK
I finally cleaned up my photos, and posted them here:
http://groups.msn.com/armorama/andysstuffinprogress.msnw
I built this kit before we moved, and it's been sitting in a box since May. I have a Churchill Croc, a M20, lots of US and British crewmen and a dio base. All are in various stages of completion. Some day I'll get all this crap out and finish the dio. For now, I'm taking a break working on a few figures and a PzIIIJ. I have to say this thread is leading to some interest in finishing that dio!
I hope the pictures are some help. I textured the cast areas, uparmored the hull, added sand-sheild retainer strips, replaced the barrel, used AFV Club three bar tracks, and worked on the tools.
You guys are all catching up to me!!
Cheers
Andy
Andy--what type crewman will be manning this fine looking vehicle? Nice job.
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
Canada
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 09:46 AM UTC
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Andy--what type crewman will be manning this fine looking vehicle? Nice job.
DJ
Thanks!
I have a DML crewman modified with a Hornet head. He is looking up, but completely in the turret. There are two other guys passing ammo up from the ground to the vehicle to the guy in the turret. He neatly obscures the complete lack of interior detail, and gives the ammo loading set someone to receive the shells. The ammo loading crew is from Verlinden. All are almost painted.
Cheers
Andy
#003
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 12:53 PM UTC
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Okay, gang! What step are we all on? Is everyone still with us?
I have at last gotten started and have completed upto and including step 4.
Now I have a question. What is recommended if you want to texture the body?
Texture all the hull first and add the bits later or add all the parts and texture around them? If you texture first how do yu keep track of all the positions where things should go or is this just an experienced guess/estimation afterwards?
What is the best (read easiest) method for texturing. Paint on liquid cement and stipple or paint on putty and stipple? I think Im gonna need some help here!
Thanks for all comment and help in advance.
IPMS Stockholm
"The problem with common sense, is that it is not that common"
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 3,856 posts
Armorama: 2,984 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 08:27 PM UTC
now I'm with you only as an observer and not accually building the kit but I'm having fun watching and reading. Maybe one day I will run out of softskins and try building one of these funny looking things that when they have flat tyres you can't just turn the compressor on and pump it up. Hard to panelbeat too when you dent them. With a truck if it's bad enough you just get a new one.
Good luck to all
Cliff (I'm still a driver)
Virginia, United States
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, November 15, 2002 - 12:33 AM UTC
PlasticBattle--I would strongly suggest texturing before adding the bits. I can't tell you what is the easiest method to texture because I've only used one. This model is the first one that I ever attempted texturing and I used the Testor's liquid cement approach and found it very easy. I just applied the cement in small sections and then stipled with a stiff brush. I continued this until all of the sections that I wanted textured had been done and then let it sit for an evening. The next day I came back and lightly sanded all of the textured areas with fine steel wool. HTH
STATUS--I am almost completely finished attaching the tools to the rear deck. It has been slow going because 1) time constraints and 2) I am scratch-building the attachments with aluminum sheet. I had a great bit of luck yesterday with this project. A while ago, I had asked the question on what to do with the horn because the kit provided one looks so bad. Well, I found a really nice and easy solution. I bought the DML NVA T-34/85M yesterday at my local hobby shop and upon opening it up I found that it had a sprue that is included in their Sherman and Pershing kits for the .50 cal and various other fittings. One of those fittings is the horn which isn't used in the T-34/85 kit so I can scavenge it for this kit. :-)
Canada
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, November 15, 2002 - 03:29 AM UTC
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PlasticBattle--I would strongly suggest texturing before adding the bits. I can't tell you what is the easiest method to texture because I've only used one. This model is the first one that I ever attempted texturing and I used the Testor's liquid cement approach and found it very easy. I just applied the cement in small sections and then stipled with a stiff brush. I continued this until all of the sections that I wanted textured had been done and then let it sit for an evening. The next day I came back and lightly sanded all of the textured areas with fine steel wool.
That's what I did too, although I didn't use steel wool, but some wet/dry sanding pads I had. I thought I had overdone the texturing and smoothed it out a lot. It's the old scale size vs. looks good problem...
Andy
#003
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Friday, November 15, 2002 - 03:43 AM UTC
Thanks guys for your help. Much appreciated. Any ideas on how to keep the location marks though for everything? Would a pen be able to mark on this soft area. Or is it just a case of eyeballing everything? I would hate to ruin the kit. How necessary for effect is it to add texture. How noticable is it in this scale? How many questions can I fit in this paragraph?
I think Im just going to jump in at the deep end and see what happens!!
IPMS Stockholm
"The problem with common sense, is that it is not that common"
Virginia, United States
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, November 15, 2002 - 03:54 AM UTC
The marks were still visible on mine after texturing so I wouldn't worry about it.
Canada
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
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Posted: Friday, November 15, 2002 - 09:10 AM UTC
...and I think the texturing is not necessary either!
If you think about what a roughly cast surface would look like at 1/35 of its original size, it is very hard to replicate. Of course a little texture can 'look good'. So you can do it either way.
Remember, only texture the cast areas. Really, the turret needs it most because once you fix the shape of the area around the ejection port (if you fix it), there is so much putty and gunk there you have a nice start on texturing!
Cheers
Andy
#003
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 07:47 AM UTC
Should the 2 angle irons, the extra gun mount and the round shape all pre moulded onto the back of the turret mount be kept? I am at the last stage now and want to know if I should keep these or cut them off!
I used the kit gun and have to say Im really pleased with the result. I glued heavily together, filed down the ridges and glue and then fine sandpaper to finish. Will post fotos at the weekend!! This took no more than 15 minutes. I left the muzzle(?) at the end as I think it looks good!! This is the 4th time now I have used the kit gun barrell and fixed it up. I dont see this as a problem any longer. I know they may not be 100% perfect but Im happy with the result anyway!
IPMS Stockholm
"The problem with common sense, is that it is not that common"
Virginia, United States
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 08:46 AM UTC
PlasticBattle--Yes, the stuff on the back of the turret should be there. In fact if you are doing any super-detailing the ends of those 2 angle irons should have clips at the ends for holding the barrel of the .50 cal which goes into that rear gun mount when traveling.
Florida, United States
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 08:50 AM UTC
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Should the 2 angle irons, the extra gun mount and the round shape all pre moulded onto the back of the turret mount be kept? I am at the last stage now and want to know if I should keep these or cut them off!
The angle irons are the 50cal's storage mounts...you could add the missing clips the there.
The round shape is the the heater exhaust and needs to be kept there.
Wow, have I fallen behind here a bit...need to get to work...
I will not grease the monkey bars. I will not grease the monkey bars. ...
Bart's chalkboard amercement
Canada
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 09:17 AM UTC
On my kit, I've taken the .50 cal and swathed it in a tarp. It will be mounted on the back of the turret, and I will use the tarp to skillfully hide all the stuff that's not on the gun or the mounts!!!
Cheers
Andy
#003
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 02:34 PM UTC
Thanks guys of the information.
Quoted Text
On my kit, I've taken the .50 cal and swathed it in a tarp. It will be mounted on the back of the turret, and I will use the tarp to skillfully hide all the stuff that's not on the gun or the mounts!!!
I think I will go this way as well as Im not a qualified super-duper-detailer!!
Cheers!
Frank
IPMS Stockholm
"The problem with common sense, is that it is not that common"
Georgia, United States
Joined: March 08, 2002
KitMaker: 778 posts
Armorama: 396 posts
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2002 - 01:07 AM UTC
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Wow, have I fallen behind here a bit...need to get to work...
Amen, Ken! Looks like this may be a good weekend to catch up...temps are gonna be chilly, so it's a great reason to build away!
"It is the Americans who are absorbant and yellow and porous!" -BaghdadBob SquarePants
Bob Morales
Former 12C3C
2/102 Armor
"On The Way!"
#003
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2002 - 11:58 AM UTC
Anybody got a good refernece photo of what a stored gun or these clips look like that they can post here? I like this option as every tank I have ever built ha the machine gun on top but never used. A stored away one, would be a cool alternative!
IPMS Stockholm
"The problem with common sense, is that it is not that common"
Virginia, United States
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 05:54 AM UTC
Well, as of last night I finished the building phase of my Sherman (I still have to attach the antenna). Here are some pictures (there are some more here:
http://groups.msn.com/armorama/italerishermanm4a1groupbuild.msnw?Page=1 )
The grey pieces are DML bits from the spares box. I wanted to do my own periscope guards using Kencelot's method, but ran out of 26 gauge wire and couldn't get more in a timely manner. The tools that are brass are Collector's Brass items that are American style tools rather than the British style ones included with the kit. All of the tool attachment points and tie downs, .50 cal clips on rear of turret, tow cable, and tow cable clamps are scratch-built items made from aluminum and brass sheet, aluminum foil (for tie-down straps), picture wire, sheet plastic, brass tube, wire, and hex rod. The .50 cal is somewhat of a cheat. I dropped the kit .50 on the floor and rolled my chair over it accidently while searching for it so I had to replace it. I used a Skybow .50 cal with a truck pedestal mount instead. I just modified the mount to look more like the type on tanks.
Tennessee, United States
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 138 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 02:36 PM UTC
Just a short update of progress to the group. I sprayed the Future using an airbrush and did not thin it. The Future went on well and I had no problems. Let it dry for several days and tonight I washed it with black, brunt umber, and raw sienna. I will drybrush in a few days. Need to put the tracks on and complete the mg and it will be finished. I did make a mistake with the decals and got some silvering.
