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TacFireGuru
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Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
KitMaker: 3,770 posts
Armorama: 2,263 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 09:32 AM UTC
Hey all!

I would have no problem having my age shown (42). Don't think it's necessary, but.....

I like the idea of a "skill-level" (mine would be "beginner [with BIG heart]" as I have not done ANY serious modeling ever. Yep, I've built 'em and blown 'em up as a kid and started a couple since I retired from the Army. "BIG heart" comes into play because I desire to do a diorama that is going to take me longer than others because my skill sets aren't quite there yet.

Okay, knowing that eventually I'll get this thing going, I will post progress pics. I WILL ask for comments, advice, et cetera, and I WILL be looking for honesty. If I "jacked" something up, I want to know before it's too late for me to fix. If I'm doing good, then that "pat on the back" will be nice. But, (ahead of time) I'm sure I'll do well because of this site. I may have to sub-contract out the figures though...........

As far as age, heck, didn't know it at first, but I've conversed with folks on ArmoramA that were in their teens (and those much older than I). Know what? When I found out I didn't change the "way" I "spoke" with them at all. Who CARES! If a 13 year old gives me valid advice, I'm going to take it!

And the Golden Rule rocks! I'd rather not hear, "Dude, that SUCKS!" Though it may be true, I'd rather hear, "Dude, you need to fix this, and that, and this, and.........." Tellin' me it sucks don't tell me how to correct it.

For those whose primary language is NOT English, fear not....collectively we'll be able to "get the message across." My best friend is in the German Army and we have always communicated by "hand and foot." That is, using our hands to elaborate points. I know you can't do that here, but with "prodding" and asking questions, the message WILL get across.

Well, nuff said....ArmoramA rocks and this is one of the reasons!

Hey Staff-Jim, can we get an icon for a "soap box?"

Mike (++) (++)
Anti44Hero
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 28, 2005
KitMaker: 42 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 10:14 AM UTC
As a beginner modeler myself, I can see how some may take offence to someone saying that what you have done is "wrong".
It doesnt hurt anyone if the camo is not painted on properly, or the main gun is an inch to long. Isnt modeling all about being creative and experimenting? Glue, Plastic, Paint and People all working together to achieve a common goal (Hehe).

Im sure no one who's just put the time and effort into a model wants to be torn up about it. Instead help them, and explain what could be done differently next time, so they can (if they so choose) turn out a more accurate model.

Just my 2 cents



spooky6
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Sri Lanka
Joined: May 05, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 11:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It doesnt hurt anyone if the camo is not painted on properly, or the main gun is an inch to long. Isnt modeling all about being creative and experimenting? Glue, Plastic, Paint and People all working together to achieve a common goal (Hehe).


And what is that common goal? I always thought it was to accurately depict an actual or imagined event or object in a smaller scale, and have fun doing it. If you don't care about accuracy, then it doesn't matter what cam pattern you use, or whether an SS NCO is carrying an AK-47. But the majority of military modellers strive for accuracy and assume others are too, and so advice is given accordingly.


Quoted Text

Instead help them, and explain what could be done differently next time, so they can (if they so choose) turn out a more accurate model.


I think this is almost invariably done. Occasionally, some advice is curt or a tad harsh, which can be a problem for newbies and sometimes youngsters.

In the second thread in question, there's no sign that William was offended. In fact, I see he's back today with what seems like a beautiful SAS Pinky.

Carry on, men.
Anti44Hero
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 28, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 11:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

It doesnt hurt anyone if the camo is not painted on properly, or the main gun is an inch to long. Isnt modeling all about being creative and experimenting? Glue, Plastic, Paint and People all working together to achieve a common goal (Hehe).


And what is that common goal?


To complete a model your happy with, and that you enjoyed building. Im just saying who decides whats good and whats not? Aslong as you enjoy what your doing, who cares?
spooky6
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Sri Lanka
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 12:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text

just saying who decides whats good and whats not?


No one here judges the models displayed, nor decides anything. Improvements and advice is freely given, each modeller may decide to accept the advice or not.


Quoted Text

Aslong as you enjoy what your doing, who cares?


No one, of course. If a modeller is happy with an inaccurate model, and says so, I'm sure no one here will begrudge him that happiness. But the fact that a modeller displays his work here is a sign that he cares what others think.

As I said before, I and most other modellers here try to be as accurate as is reasonably and practically possible. And we assume others aim for the same thing. But each modeller sets his own levels of accuracy, dependent on time, skill, cash or whatever. Most of my own builds have several inaccuracies, which I have chosen to accept for various reasons. But the advice is given with the idea of achieving accuracy, not to find fault or humiliate anyone.


Quoted Text

But I prefer it my way
is a perfectly valid reason for an SS NCO with an AK-47
tankysgal1
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Nebraska, United States
Joined: January 28, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 10:54 PM UTC
OKOKOK..we have beat the age thing enough..so now i throw another ponder out there. How about an option for male/ female..as trying to simply judge by a callsign is near impossible these days..

Mary...
AJLaFleche
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Massachusetts, United States
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 10:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

OKOKOK..we have beat the age thing enough..so now i throw another ponder out there. How about an option for male/ female..as trying to simply judge by a callsign is near impossible these days..

Mary...

Is Mary :-)8 trying to tell us she's Harry in drag? :-)
betheyn
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#019
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: October 14, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 11:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

OKOKOK..we have beat the age thing enough..so now i throw another ponder out there. How about an option for male/ female..as trying to simply judge by a callsign is near impossible these days..

Mary...

Can't you tell i'm a male from my callsign then :-) .
Andy ( i am a male, honest ):) (++)
Diablo
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Gelderland, Netherlands
Joined: February 01, 2004
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2006 - 12:52 AM UTC
hmmmm,what about NO age NO girl/Boy or NO whatever we are all the same here,we like to build models in a certain scale.we are from all over the world from a 100+ nations doing the same thing.i like it how it is here,lets keep it that way.just one big family,the armorama way..when you post a model you will get a critic you wont like sometimes ,learn from it and be a better builder and person as long as it was done with respect for the person there will be no problem at all.RESPECT is a key word for all walk of live.............................I am getting to serious with this :-) must be because i just become a daddy a few months ago.Lets model and be happy..

greetings jeroen,.
Augie
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: May 13, 2003
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2006 - 01:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Thurs nae need ta gie onybudee a hard tyme ....we aye c'n be but abitty guid whem wi tak tae ain annither----it casts nithin tae be poleite
Whilst sum craters can furgit wha thir spiking tae ---its beholdin tae yays-abutt a comin sense in a that go's arrooon on this hame frae hame---wir a femuly here so cut oot a this bickerin an git back tae bein wha wee ar.
As fur ages ---yur only as auld as ye feel --but sum on here are beyon thir yeers---me em 63 and am waitin for Goddird--wha er he is
Bae polit and thas an end tae it
aye
BARV
(GOSMG)


I can't believe that I can understand everything that you have here!
There is a third part to the Golden Rule and that is it takes more muscles to frown than it takes to make a fist and knock their block off!!! :-) :-) :-) :-)
Vic
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2006 - 01:08 AM UTC

Ok, like Mary said, the age thing has been covered, thanks for all your comments. I think we're all more or less on the same track with that.

I like the idea of a skill level you can show yourself as especially as you can upgrade yourself as you get better.

On the question of male or female I don't know. I think age can make a difference to your modelling but can being of a different sex???

Over to you guys...... and girls.

Vic
AJLaFleche
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Massachusetts, United States
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2006 - 01:14 AM UTC
Problem with skill levels would be who assigns them. It's pretty clear looking at a posted kit what the builder's skill level did. IPMS tried someting along these lines and it went over like a in church with much of the membership.
Vic
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2006 - 01:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Problem with skill levels would be who assigns them.



Good point Al, I was just thinking you class yourself at a level you think you should be until you feel happy enough to move yourself up a peg. (or down)
If anyone thought too much of themselves they'll soon find out the truth :-)

I've only completed 4 figures and have only been painting for not much more than a year. I don't think they're too bad so would I be a beginner, moderate or what?
Easier said than done eh


P.S. Like you're annimation
:-) :-) :-)
TacFireGuru
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Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2006 - 03:17 AM UTC
I believe, if implemented, the modeler's level should be up to him/her. As was mentioned, if I "claim" I'm advanced and the best I can do is a Monogram Snap-Tite, well, I'm sure I'll hear about it.......and I don't mean ADVANCED SNAP-TITE'r !!! :-)

Hmmmm, levels? Just to throw these out there.

Beginner
Advanced Beginner
Intermediate
Advanced
Professional
Museum Meister?

Again, I would put myself in the Beginner level. I document that by one of the models I started (yet have not finished):



David,


Quoted Text

EDIT: maybe a counter that shows how many years of experience?
The problem with that would be that "technically," I have over 30 years experience, yet there are youngsters out there that would SMOKE me in a competition! Their stuff is GOOD! Back to the original "issue;" the youngster that did the HT with the cammo........okay, wrong time/element/location, what ever......his cammo looks GOOD.

(Staff Jim - - - Soap Box please!!!!!)

Mike
AJLaFleche
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Massachusetts, United States
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2006 - 03:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Beginner
Advanced Beginner
Intermediate
Advanced
Professional
Museum Meister?


I you used the kit pins for the tracks on the A7V, you need to add another level, "Glutton for Punishment."
TacFireGuru
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2006 - 04:09 AM UTC
and change of subject.....?
Quoted Text

If you used the kit pins for the tracks on the A7V, you need to add another level, "Glutton for Punishment."


AJ, I did use the kit pins. "Another level?" Por Que? Wie Bitte? What means you? Sorry. I'm not following about another level.

Sorry, "stoopid butt" at the com'pooter!

Mike (++) (++)

[edit.....DUHHHHH.....I think I been have kinda perhaps maybe imagining somewhat figured that out......yep, pain in the "nether regions."]
05Sultan
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California, United States
Joined: December 19, 2004
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2006 - 05:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

OKOKOK..we have beat the age thing enough..so now i throw another ponder out there. How about an option for male/ female..as trying to simply judge by a callsign is near impossible these days..

Mary...


Mary,I honestly don't think this matters(gender).If you are discussing cammo or battle use of armor timeline,where would gender play a differance?
As far as age goes,I still say it would be nice to know before submitting a response.It might help in formulating an easier to understand reply, or taylor the fix for a 10 years old budget.Declaring age must be an option to the poster though.
My last .02 on this
cheers!
AJLaFleche
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2006 - 05:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text


[edit.....DUHHHHH.....I think I been have kinda perhaps maybe imagining somewhat figured that out......yep, pain in the "nether regions."]


Yes a PIA but also a pain in the finger tips as they pins kept poking through my skin and breaking the treads. I finally used staples bent into an L shape then cut off hte excess when I built mine in the mid 90's.
spooky6
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Sri Lanka
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2006 - 10:10 AM UTC
I think the 'gender indicator' is a non-starter, Mary. If someone can't tell that Mary Langley is a female or that David Blacker's a male, he/she shouldn't be allowed off a leash. Have you considered that some of the more vague names and callsigns might be intentionally so, because a woman doesn't want to be condescended to by the male majority?

Besides, who cares what gender you are when it comes to modelling? Makes no difference, whereas age and/or experience does. I had said as much regarding the 'Women Only' issue at the time.

As to the 'age/experience' issue and whether an indicator should be carried, how about this suggestion:

Carry an age tag in the profile but not below the avatar.

If not, leave things as they are. I suggest members check out a poster's profile before giving a critique. There are plenty of indicators there of a person's age and/or experience (mugshot, campaign ribbons, WIP, etc). Take a bit of time before hitting the 'submit' button.
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